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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: kiwianna on Saturday 07 September 19 01:40 BST (UK)

Title: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: kiwianna on Saturday 07 September 19 01:40 BST (UK)
I'm helping my stepson with his family tree for his Mothers side of the family and have hit a brick wall.

I have traced his Collins family from New Zealand back to Australia with the birth of John Harry Collins (9/5/1861) in Victoria to John Palmer Collins and Annette Lewcock (Mary Annette). Also siblings Frank Collins, William Palmer Collins & George Edward Collins. The family came across to NZ sometime between 1859 and 1869. I have a marriage of John and Annette in 19 Oct 1858,  Emerald Hill, Victoria, Australia

I have some information on Annette Lewcock and can trace her parents but John Palmer Collins is a mystery. He died in NZ in 1886 and information I have come across puts his birth at around 1819. He was a Captain (Master Mariner) and is listed as such in some of the information I have found about his later life but birth and parents (and other family) are a mystery.

I have ordered a death certificate in the hope it might bring some information to light as at that time parents and place of birth if known are meant to be recorded on death certs in NZ. Until that arrives I was wondering if there could be any other information at an Australian level that I haven't come across thru Ancestry.

Many thanks
Anna
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 02:05 BST (UK)
BDM VIC
3784/1858 COLLINS  John    marr.  LEWCOCK, Mary Annette

You need to see this marriage certificate. It will have good information about John COLLINS and Mary Annette LEWCOCK.


NZ BDM death
1886/5479  COLLINS    John  Palmer   67Y

Press 5 Apr 1869
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP18690405.2.14?
.....death of Frank COLLINS 10 years...son of John Palmer COLLINS.......Lyttleton....
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 02:11 BST (UK)

Good information here....written after he died.....you need to see the 1858 marriage certificate....

Lyttleton Times 11 Oct 1886   
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT18861011.2.28?
...obituary for John Palmer COLLINS.......
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: kiwianna on Saturday 07 September 19 04:18 BST (UK)
I got a download of the marriage certificate, it mentions his birthplace as what looks like Lincolnshire, England. No other information on there sadly.

Thank you for the obituary, I hadn't managed to find that one so must have missed it as I had been looking for it.

Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 September 19 04:41 BST (UK)
 

 The family came across to NZ sometime between 1859 and 1869.

4 children born in Emerald Hill, Vic to John COLLINS and Mary/Annette LEWCOCK

1859  Frank
1861  John Harry
1863  William Palmer
1865  George Edward

(so still in Vic in 1865 at least)
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 September 19 04:47 BST (UK)
Birth notice for John Harry COLLINS in 1861
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5700490

Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 September 19 05:11 BST (UK)
A possibility -
There is a Thomas COLLINS (mariner) married Sarah PALMER, both of Gainsborough on 8 March 1810. I can see children baptised for this couple after 1826, but not earlier. Will keep looking for a John.  :-\

Modified to add:
Found him now - John COLLINS born 6 Feb 1815, bap 8 Jan 1823 to Thomas (sailor) and Sarah, of Bridge St, Gainsborough. (on FreeReg)
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: kiwianna on Saturday 07 September 19 05:16 BST (UK)
Thank you, that marriage looks promising because of the Palmer name.

I found a John and Bridget with multiple children in West deeping Lincolnshire. They had a John b 1819

Hopefully the death notice will tell more than the marriage
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 September 19 08:30 BST (UK)
Just in case this is the family, Thomas and Sarah look like they have these children all baptised at Gainsborough, so spelling fairly fluid  :-\ ):

19 Jul 1813     Mary Palmer COLLINGER (of Bridge St, mariner)
28 Jan 1815    Samuel COLLINGER (of Causeway, mariner)
18 Jun 1817    Thomas COLLINSON  (of Bridge St, mariner)
?                      Ann COLLiNGS bu 13 Apr 1821 (dau of Thomas, Bridge St, mariner
08 Jan 1823    John COLLINS (born 06 Feb 1815) (of BRidge St, sailor)
08 Oct 1823    Sarah Ann COLLINGS  (of Pillard House Yard, mariner)
05 Jun 1826    William COLLINS  (of Bridge St, sailor)
31 Dec 1827   Susannah Spicer COLLINS  (of Pillard House Yard, sailor) bu 15 May 1828
24 Oct 1829    William Palmer COLLINS (of Gainsborough, mariner) bu 10 Nov 1829
31 May 1833  Joseph COLLINS (of Gainsborough, sailor)

They are in Gainsborough in 1841:
Thos Collins         37  (mariner) - I think this is meant to be 57
Sarah Collins       32 - I think this is meant to be 52
Thomas Collins    24 (joiner)
Joseph Collins       8
H0107/634/14 pg20

and in Gainsborough in 1851:
Sarah Collings       62    Gainsbro
Thomas Collings   34     Gainsbro (joiner and cabinet maker)
Joseph Collings    18     Gainsbro (cabinet maker)
H0107/2120 / 204  pg 53

Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 09:05 BST (UK)

The marriage certificate, 1858, is the earliest evidence you have that John COLLINS ever existed.

All the information on this certificate is useful.

Can you please list all the information on the document....everything please....occupations, ages, dates, addresses, church married in....and names........all of them, including witnesses.

If some headings have a blank, or a dash, or "not known"....please indicate that.

The marriage document you have...is it a typed document, or image of a handwritten record.
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 09:22 BST (UK)

Press 10 June 1907
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?
...obituary for Mary COLLINS.....

P(ublic)  R(ecords) O(ffice) V(ictoria)  outward passengers 
Bluff NZ Ports to Hokitiko  Jul 1868
COLLINS Mrs J      38
COLLINS Frank       8
COLLINS John        6
COLLINS Wm         4
COLLINS George    2

John COLLINS might be the master of the "Winning Lass"....see Trove.....
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: kiwianna on Saturday 07 September 19 09:29 BST (UK)
Hi this is a scan of the actual marriage register so handwritten document

It has the following information
October 19 1858
District Emerald Hill - St Lukes Church
John Collins.                Bachelor.  No children. Born Lincolnshire, England
Mary Annette Lewcock . Spinster. No children. Born England (can't read where in England)
Signed by them both.

Thats everything that's on there
I think the NZ death certificate will have more, in 1886 they should show the following:
After 1875 - Registration of Births and Deaths Act 1875 (dated 12 October 1875)
Deceased

    When and where died
    Name and surname
    Rank or profession or occupation
    Sex and Age

Detail of Death

    Cause of death
    Duration of last illness
    Medical attendant who certified the cause of death and when they last saw the deceased

Parents

    Name and Surname of father
    Name and if known maiden surname of mother
    Rank or profession or occupation of father

Burial Details

    When and where buried
    Name and Religion of Minister or name of witness of burial

Birth Details

    Where born
    How long in New Zealand

Marriage Details

    Where married
    At what age married
    Children
    If living issue, the number, age and sex
    To whom married

Informant

    Signature, description and residence of informant
    If the entry is a correction of a former entry signature of witnesses
    Who witnessed the correction.

Registrar

    Signature of registrar
    Date of registration



Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 09:54 BST (UK)
Press 13 Apr 1936
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19360413.2.155?
...obit for John Harry COLLINS born Melbourne 1861...arrived "Alhambra"  1868.......
brother Mr C E COLLINS....

Who is this brother?

My edit.....I think this should be brother G E COLLINS....George Edward.......
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 07 September 19 09:56 BST (UK)
I'm not an expert on Victorian bdm, however marriage certificates from July 1853 should show fathers' and mother's names and father's occupation. Perhaps you just have the church registry? Is that different to ordering a certificate from Vic BDM?

Modified to add:
Reg no 3784 / 1858
https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history/5d7370923372e12304044f5d/record/5c65530b4aba80ac3121ee38?q=efamily&givenName=John&familyName=COLLINS
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 07 September 19 10:12 BST (UK)


A marriage certificate would need to identify witnesses, and the name / signature of the person who officiated....registered to conduct marriage.  Otherwise it is not a legal marriage.

What is the document that you have.......where did you get this document?.....do you see any dates other than the date of marriage?
Title: Re: John Palmer Collins - Victoria
Post by: wainui01 on Tuesday 14 November 23 02:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Kiwianna,

John Palmer Collins Bn: 1818 Gainsborough, Lincolnshire is my 2x gt grandfather. I'm pretty sure he was baptised on 8 Jan 1823 All Saints, Gainsborough, Lincolnshire, born 6 Oct 1818.

I assume you have his death certificate now, so you will know that his parents are Thomas Collins, Master Mariner and Sarah Palmer.

I have done a little bit of research around the Palmer's and Collins but haven't sorted them out as yet.

I live in NZ also and am descended through John Harry Collins.

If you think I may be able to help any further, with any aspects of family, please let me know.