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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ColDownUnder on Friday 06 September 19 05:32 BST (UK)

Title: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Friday 06 September 19 05:32 BST (UK)
Hi & please see attached snippet.
Unable to read the place John Fraser came from & don't know why...
… William is named his "natural son" where all other births on the register page are named "lawful"
… John Fraser is recorded also as "alias miller", Fraser or Miller on the ScotlandsPeople record listing
Quite a mystery unless John Fraser was a boll o' meal Fraser who changed his Miller surname when joining Simon Fraser's clan? Don't know.
Anyway, will appreciate what help you experts out there can give me. I've been lucky so far with forum members solving some of the riddles coming my way when researching.
Cheers,
Col :)




Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: horselydown86 on Friday 06 September 19 06:15 BST (UK)
Natural Son to John ffraser alias miller in

Uladil & Ann Peterson in Culbockie



I found a reference to an Uladail here but otherwise have done no more to identify the place.

https://canmore.org.uk/site/22683/uladail
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Friday 06 September 19 06:24 BST (UK)
Hi & thanks for Uladail, horselydown 86.
Cheers,
Col  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Friday 06 September 19 09:28 BST (UK)
An interesting entry if it is the Uladail mentioned in Canmore as that place is in Morven ( the peninsular that is south west of Fort William, opposite Mull) and Culbokie is on the Black Isle

 :-\
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 06 September 19 09:39 BST (UK)
 @ Col, Ulladale, Strathpeffer formerly part of the much divided county of Cromarty. Probably Fodderty parish.

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Friday 06 September 19 11:44 BST (UK)
@ Col, Ulladale, Strathpeffer formerly part of the much divided county of Cromarty. Probably Fodderty parish.

Skoosh.

That's far more likely, Skoosh.  We used to go through there on the back road to Dingwall. It was always full of tourist buses   :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Skoosh on Friday 06 September 19 12:47 BST (UK)
Hmm, stayed in digs in the Strath back in the day Gadget & occasionally propped up the bar in the Caley, Dingwall (Deengwal)  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Friday 06 September 19 13:43 BST (UK)
 ;D

Here's the location

https://maps.nls.uk/view/74428411#zoom=4&lat=8924&lon=13699&layers=BT
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Friday 06 September 19 22:21 BST (UK)
Hi & thanks Gadget & Skoosh. Have been out that way to Strathpeffer, also to Dingwall, Tain, Evanton, Edderton, all Fraser ancestor haunts. That's the location solved. Was a bit worried about reconciling the Morven / Ross & Cromarty divide.
Still wondering about the "natural son" & "alias miller" recording if anyone out there has any suggestions, thanks.
Cheers,
Col  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Friday 06 September 19 23:14 BST (UK)
Hi Col

To me 'natural son' means that the parents weren't married - i.e. he was illegitimate. Also suggests that John Fraser, also known as/alias Miller, was likely to have acknowledged parenthood.

Gadget
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Friday 06 September 19 23:23 BST (UK)
Further to my last post ~  it would be interesting to see if the Kirk Session minutes have any record of this. 

I'm not sure if they are available online or if you are able to get to either Edinburgh or Glasgow or any of the larger local archives in Scotland to see them.

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/church-court-records-online

Gadget

Added - just noticed that you are in Hunter Valley where the wine comes from, so unlikely to be able to get to Scotland without a long journey  :-\
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Saturday 07 September 19 02:18 BST (UK)
Thanks for your suggestions Gadget.
Illegitimacy does explain the "natural son" start of the birth record but I still don't understand the "John Fraser alias Miller" part of the record. This phrasing seems to bear no connection to the illegitimate son.
 I will do the long haul to Scotland again in 2022 all being well.
Cheers,
Col  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Skoosh on Saturday 07 September 19 09:25 BST (UK)
There's no logic when it comes to an alias. Fraser's being 10 a penny therraboots many families would have had an alias (still have!) to differentiate them from families of the same name.  Could be a place-name, a grannie's name, an occupation or whatever.
 Have you tried a search on Rootschat for these family names Col?

Skoosh. 
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Saturday 07 September 19 22:14 BST (UK)
Hi & thanks Skoosh. Didn't know that about aliases but it makes sense as you point out with all the Frasers around that area.
With the non capitalised "miller" of the record that could have been his occupation.
I will do a name search on Rootschat for Miller. I've done one previously for Fraser.
Cheers,
Col  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Skoosh on Wednesday 11 September 19 21:36 BST (UK)
@ Col, just watched a Gaelic prog'"Trusaidh!" on nicknames currently used throughout the north of Scotland. Some places nearly everybody has a personal nickname also a family name, plus the ability to recite their patronymic!  ;D

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 11 September 19 22:03 BST (UK)
They certainly did in the community where I lived. They were mostly McLeods so some form of distinguishing the Jimmys , Donalds, Alastairs, etc.* was required.

* and the Anns and Margarets, etc.
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Thursday 12 September 19 00:06 BST (UK)
I wish they'd written it all down somewhere. I'm finding it harder & harder to locate records in the 1700s. When I do find them it's often hard to locate births even when marriage certs & children can be found. Death certs also seem to be difficult.
Oh well, keeps me on my toes. All the best.
Cheers,
Col  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: Skoosh on Thursday 12 September 19 07:25 BST (UK)
Folks. in that prog' in the case of Barra the emigrants who went to Cape Breton took their genealogy with them & the present islanders are indebted to their descendants who sent the info' back to Barra where folk who formerly traced their ancestry to the 18th cent' can now go back another 200 years! 

Skoosh.
Title: Re: Need help deciphering & interpreting this 1739 Urquart & Logie Wester birth
Post by: ColDownUnder on Thursday 12 September 19 10:33 BST (UK)
Wow, that is impressive Skoosh. I'll continue to dig but think I've reached my limits (temporarily I hope) with my patrynymics.
Cheers,
Col  :)