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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Antoinette 12 on Thursday 05 September 19 16:39 BST (UK)
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I have tried in vain looking for a marriage between Joseph Marshall bn.1830 in Southwark and Elizabeth Sykes bn.1830 also from Southwark. In the 1861 Census they are living with their children and Elizabeth is listed as his wife.Im beginning to believe they were never married for whatever reason but would just like your help to see if I have missed something.
Thanks in advance
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There are these Banns which could be worth looking at as Elizabeth Reeves is described as a widow.
Joseph Marshall
Banns - 22 Jul 1849, St Mary, Newington Southwark
Spouse - Elizabeth Reeves, widow
JJ
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Did you get Elizabeth's maiden name from one of their children's birth certs? If a widow remarries, she does so under her previous married name but children born to the marriage will show her true maiden name
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This one?
Marriages Sep 1849
Hickey John Newington 4 407
Leaper Sarah Newington 4 407
>>Marshall Joseph Newington 4 407
Paige Jane Newington 4 407
Paines Edwin Newington 4 407
Parker Isabella Reigate 4 407
>>Reeves Elizabeth Newington 4 407
Roberts Ann Newington 4 407
Young Joseph Newington 4 407
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Just found the marriage cert for the Banns posted. Elizabeth Reeves' father is John Parker ???
JJ
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The 1861 shows Joseph as a costermonger. The 1849 marriage shows him as a bachelor occ miller father Richard deceased
Elizabeth was a widow father John Parker custom house officer
Neither of Elizabeths surnames tie in with Sykes
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Is this the 1861 entry: RG9/314, folio 19 page 34.
If so then birth registrations for Susan and Catherine do give mother's maiden name as Sykes. Purchase of a birth certificate would perhaps give further information regarding "Sykes".
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son Joseph whose birth was registered march qtr 1853 Saint Saviour vol 1d pg 28 mmn Sykes is on the 1871 census with his grandmother Catherine Sykes RG10/595 folio 28 pg 50. 1841 census for Thompsons Buildings HO107/1088/5 folio 12 pg 17 has Elizabeth Sykes aged 11 with James enumerated as 40 and Catherine as 35 and other children. Elizabeth baptised 10 June 1832 dau of James & Catherine, noted as born 1830.
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Son Edward is 14 in 1861 so born 1847 but I can't find an 1851 entry. Elizabeth was only 17 in 1847
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An earlier post has Elizabeths baptism in 1832 with a birth of around 1830.
Freebmd has a Marriage in Newington Dec 1845 Qtr of an Elizabeth Sykes. On the same reference is a Henry Charles Reeves. Worth a double check?
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1845 marriage - Elizabeth Sykes married Edward Trusty. She is a minor, father is James, deceased.
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address on the marriage for Elizabeth is Red Cross St which is the address on a possible burial for Elizabeth Marshall, transcribed as 31 Dec 1867 but looks like Jan 1868, very faded.
Birth reg Edward Trusty dec qtr 1846 St Saviour vol 4a pg 547 mmn Sykes - could be the 14 year old Edward in 1861.
Not sure that father James was deceased at that time as there's a burial 3 Sep 1848 age 53 address George Yard that seems a match for him. ::)
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also Esther Trusty march qtr 1848 St Saviour mmn Sikes who died 23 March 1850 and was buried 31 March, Long Lane Wesleyan Chapel Bermondsey
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Re son Edward aged 14 in 1861
Births Dec qtr 1846 Edward Trusty St Saviour 4 547 mmn Sykes
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Thank you all so much for your time in helping with this. I now think [with lots of Ospreys help] that Elizabeth Sykes married Edward Trusty when she was 15 yrs [so young] the oldest son Edward in the 1861 census seems to be Edward Trusty's son. So now Im off to find a death for Edward Trusty and a possible marriage between Joseph Marshall and Elizabeth.
Once again thank you all for your input and thank you Osprey for putting me on the right path.
Antoinette
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the only likely death I could find for an Edward Trusty would prove a problem to a remarriage
Edward Trusty 55 march qtr 1880 St Olave vol 1d pg 206
There are some workhouse admission & discharge records for him on Ancestry, one in 1877 as Trustee, correct age in Newington workhouse, noted him as insane & married.
::)
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Could explain why we can’t find a marriage to Joseph Marshall. Did Joseph die before 1881?
Edward Trusty jnr married Elizabeth King 1865. Father Edward shown as a fishmonger and not shown as deceased
Edward jnr had a criminal record for larceny
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Possible death for Joseph Marshall 45 dec qtr 1876 St Olave vol 1d pg 179.
Death reg for Elizabeth that fits burial given earlier age 38 dec qtr 1867 St saviour vol 1d pg 25.
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I missed that reply re Elizabeth’s death ::). So it seems they were just living together as her husband was still alive
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1871 census has Joseph Marshall as widower, occupation herring salesman RG10/595 folio 29 pg 51.
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Yes it does seem maybe Elizabeth left Edward Trusty and set up home with Joseph Marshall. Elizabeth died in 1867 Joseph bought a private grave and she was buried in City of London &Tower Hamlets Cemetery [Bow]. Joseph married again in 1874 to Louisa Bavey and heyy remained together till he died in 1910 when he was buried in the same grave.
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Do you have the 1874 marriage details? Joseph is shown as a widower
25.10.1874 St Saviour Southwark
Joseph Marshall - widower - fishmonger - father Thomas occ Cooper
Louisa Reach - widow- father William Bavey occ Whitesmith
Witnesses James Clark and Susan Marshall
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I'd wondered about those grave details. The details seemed to fit apart from Joseph's age which does seem rather fluid. ::)
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Yes I Agree the info is a bit hazy. Looking at the 1901 census Louise born in Cambs which is ok. Age of Joseph also ok. Joseph born in Cambs doesn't marry up. But maybe the enumerator got it wrong? the address at the time 50, Weston St is the same address as place of death and also same address as 1901 census. Also Grave No.5456 corresponds with the private grave Joseph purchased. What is wrong is age at death 70 yrs. should have been 80 yrs. What do you think?
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details for Elizabeth look ok, age for Susan is a match, Joseph's age out by 10 years. Not sure about
Elizabeth Catherine 22 months buried 22 June 1892 address 43 Regent St, Kensington Cross. She could be a daughter of William, he seems to have an Elizabeth & a Katherine.
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Catherine was Joseph's son William's daughter. so it looks right to me '
Thanks for all your help