RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 09:24 BST (UK)

Title: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 09:24 BST (UK)
Hi,

A mystery as to what happened to my grandfather above. Born 1909 to Bertha Mortin ( no father recorded ) and married Edith Greenhalgh in 1933. They then had 3 children between 1934 - 1937, my dad Ralph was born 1935. By 1945 Alfred was not with the family and I can't find any trace of him since then. Can anyone help please?

Regards,
Barry Mortin
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 09:42 BST (UK)
In 1939, Edith and her 2 sons are with her mother and brother.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 09:46 BST (UK)
daughter born 1944
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 11:44 BST (UK)
Hi Julie,

Thanks for the info, so it is possible that Barbera, Ediths daughter, wasn't Alfreds child.
I was told the boys were taken by my great Aunt and Uncle in 1945 when they came home from
the war and the girl went down south to a family member? but no mention of Alfred, 

Barry

ps: I used to live in Ashton and am now in Norfolk so quite hard to find information at this
distance!
 
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 11:45 BST (UK)
Do you have Edith's death certificate? Who recorded her death?

You could try looking in the Oldham Chronicle for a death notice for Edith to see if her husband is mentioned.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 September 19 11:54 BST (UK)
Edith is buried in Chadderton Cemetery. Her son Gilbert is also in the same grave.

I wonder if Alfred went to war?
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 12:05 BST (UK)
Hi,

I also wondered if he was involved in the war but my Great Aunt and Uncle never mentioned it and they both served. They said when they came home Edith and the children were living in poverty and that was why they looked after the boys afterwards.
I remember attending Gilbert's funeral, he died quite young due to a lung problem from working
in the coal pits,
I don't have her death certificate, I believe she died in 1952, I'll have a look at the Chronicle if it's online

Barry
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 13:19 BST (UK)
Marriage: 29 May 1920 St Paul, Hathershaw, Lancashire, England
William Lever Nichols - 42, Machinist, Bachelor, 27 Robinson Street
Bertha Mortin - 36, Spinster, 21 Robinson Street
Groom's Father: James Nichols, Deceased, Labourer
Bride's Father: Levi Mortin, Labourer
Witness: Tom Hilton; Mary Alice Lord
Married by Banns by: William J. J. Neal, Vicar

Bertha died in 1938 and is buried in Hollinwood Cemetery with


Hollinwood   D14   5   01/05/1913   1   Mary Mortin   
Hollinwood   D14   5   03/05/1921   2   Levi Martin   
Hollinwood   D14   5   22/07/1935   3   Elizabeth Kershaw   
Hollinwood   D14   5   21/05/1938   4   Bertha Nicholls   
Hollinwood   D14   5   16/12/1952   5   William Lever Nichols
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 September 19 13:58 BST (UK)
I had wondered if he went to his mother but found what you did heatherjulie.
I have tried looking for him as Nichols in case he changed his name but not found anything yet.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 15:32 BST (UK)
I have looked for Nichols and Kershaw just in case but found nothing.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 15:39 BST (UK)
In 1952 when Edith died her address was given as 25 Busk Road
A free search on the 1939 register gives Lucy Greenhalgh and Henry T Greenhalgh and 3 others living there.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 16:49 BST (UK)
Hi,
He married Edith with his name still Alfred Mortin in 1933 so Bertha had not changed his surname when she married in 1920 and he would have only been around 11 at the time, was that unusual in those days?
Thanks for Bertha's marriage and grave info, all new to me!

Barry Mortin
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 16:59 BST (UK)
Hi,
Henry T and Lucy were Ediths parents and 25 Busk Road was their home, do you know who the 3 others living there were please?

Barry Mortin
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heywood on Sunday 01 September 19 17:11 BST (UK)
Hi,
He married Edith with his name still Alfred Mortin in 1933 so Bertha had not changed his surname when she married in 1920 and he would have only been around 11 at the time, was that unusual in those days?
Thanks for Bertha's marriage and grave info, all new to me!

Barry Mortin

No, it wasn’t unusual.
I just thought that he might have changed his name to hide somewhere and therefore might have used his mother’s married name.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 17:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

It looks like he may have gone to war and not returned or was an objector and disappeared. I have a hazy memory of my great Uncle ( Ediths brother) telling me he scarpered, not sure when though and you know how people twist facts to suit themselves!
Is it possible to search military records for that period?

Barry Mortin 
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 17:46 BST (UK)
Hi,
Alfred was born at 27 Robinson Street, Oldham and was married from there 24 years later if that is any help,

Barry Mortin
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 18:08 BST (UK)
What was Alfred's occupation when he married?
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 18:10 BST (UK)
Hi,
Henry T and Lucy were Ediths parents and 25 Busk Road was their home, do you know who the 3 others living there were please?

Barry Mortin
The names were blocked out which means that they might have been still living in the late 1990s
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 01 September 19 18:13 BST (UK)
Hi,

Alfreds job was a 'cotton mule piecer' whatever that entailed,

Barry
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 01 September 19 20:46 BST (UK)
He would lean over the spinning machines to repair broken threads (piecing them together)
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 03 September 19 08:43 BST (UK)
Is this another one of the family?
Marriage: 3 Jan 1904 St Thomas, Werneth, Lancashire, England
Fred Armitage - 26, Fitter, Bachelor, 8 Woodbank Str.
Clara Mortin - 24, Screwer, Spinster, 8 Woodbank Str.
Groom's Father: George Armitage, Deceased, Bobbin Turner
Bride's Father: Levi Mortin, Labourer
Witness: John Armitage; Jane Armitage
Married by Banns by: Arthur J. Woodhouse, Vicar
Notes: [Groom's name given as Frederick but he signed as Fred]
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Tuesday 03 September 19 09:06 BST (UK)
Hi Julie,

Yes Clara was born 1880 to Levi and Mary Mortin, I have found James b.1869, Elizabeth b.1889 who I think is the Kershaw buried in Hollinwood that you found, Sarah b.1876, and Bertha b.1884. Again thanks for the info, always welcome,

Regards,
Barry
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Tuesday 03 September 19 09:45 BST (UK)
Clara died in 1956 and is buried in Chadderton cemetery
Her address was 3 Robinson Street
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Tuesday 03 September 19 12:37 BST (UK)
Thanks,

I found what I think are Levi's parents:

John Mortin b.1811 married Hannah Garside b.1811 in 1832. If possible can you check this as I am not 100% sure. They lived in Hayfield and had several children including a Levi b.1845

John's parents might be Robert Mortin who married Nancy Robinson in 1790 in the Edale/Chapel-en-le-Frith area, they had children including a John b.1811,

Regards,
Barry   
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 03 September 19 12:55 BST (UK)
I have looked in the Oldham Chronicle for Edith’s death announcement but couldn’t find one sorry.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Wednesday 04 September 19 08:06 BST (UK)
From www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Mortin births with mother's maiden name given as Hamer all registered Oldham Below Town except
1869 James registered Burnley
1874 Margaret Hannah
1875 Sarah Hannah
1878 John Thomas died 1878 aged 0
1882 Fred
1884 Bertha
1886 Elizabeth died 1887 aged 1
1886 John
1889 Elizabeth

I an't see a birth record for Clara born about 1880
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Wednesday 04 September 19 08:27 BST (UK)
1851
In the Civil Parish of Beard, Ollerset, Whittle, and Thornset

Hannah Mortin   Head 39 Widow Farmer of 70 acres
Nancy Mortin   Daughter 18 born Ollersett, Derbyshire, Assistant at home
James Mortin   Son 14 born Ollersett, Derbyshire,Assistant at home
Seth Mortin   Son 12 born Ollersett, Derbyshire, Assistant at home
Robert Mortin   Son 10 born Ollersett, Derbyshire,
George Mortin   Son 7 born Ollersett, Derbyshire,
Levi Mortin   Son 5 born Ollersett, Derbyshire,
John Mortin   Nephew 20 born Ollersett, Derbyshire, Agricultural Labourer

From GRO Seth Mortin birth registered in 1839 Hayfield mother's maiden name given as GARSIDE

Marriage

5th March 1832 Glossop
Hannah Garside and John Mortin


Death
John Mortin Abode New Millls buried Chapel-en-Le-Frith 12th August 1848 aged 37 years
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Wednesday 04 September 19 08:35 BST (UK)
1841
Hayfield
John Mortin   29 Farmer
Hannah Mortin   29
Nancy Mortin   8
Elizabeth Mortin   6
Seth Mortin   2
All born in the county of Derbyshire
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Wednesday 04 September 19 08:42 BST (UK)
James Mortin
Baptism Date:28 Aug 1836
Baptism Place:Hayfield,Derby,England
Father:John Mortin
Mother:Hanh.



Seth Mortin
Birth Date:29 Mar 1839
Baptism Date:2 Jun 1839
Baptism Place:Hayfield,Derby,England
Father:John Mortin
Mother:Hannah

Robert Mortin
Birth Date:12 Oct 1841
Baptism Date:2 Jan 1842
Baptism Place:Hayfield,Derby,England
Father:John Mortin
Mother:Hannah

George Mortin
Birth Date:9 Apr 1844
Baptism Date:27 May 1844
Baptism Place:Hayfield,Derby,England
Father:John Mortin
Mother:Hannah
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Wednesday 04 September 19 08:57 BST (UK)
Thanks Julie,

You found a few more children than I knew about, I think I found Clara on the 1881 census a while ago living with the family in Oldham age 1.
I think Hannah's parents were James Garside b.1778 and Susannah Lowe b.1777 married 1799 in Derbyshire, James was living with John and family in 1841, that is all I have on them.
John's parents are a bit more guesswork at the moment as records seem scarce,
Regards,
Barry 
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Thursday 05 September 19 08:41 BST (UK)
Have you found a marriage for Levi?
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Thursday 05 September 19 08:46 BST (UK)
Hi,
All I have is a year, 1870 when he  married Mary Hamer,

Barry
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Saturday 07 September 19 18:00 BST (UK)
I am looking for the Robert Mortin who married Nancy Robinson in 1790 at Glossop,
I have two Roberts, born 1752 and 1770 both to a Benjamin Mortin and have a record for the first
one but none for the other,

Barry Mortin
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: heatherjulie on Sunday 08 September 19 08:26 BST (UK)
Glossop Parish Church
2nd March 1790
Robert Mortin of the parish of Stockport and Nancy Robinson of this parish were married by Licence this second day of March in the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety by Rich. Dillon Curate.
Both made their mark in the presence of Henry Bray and Joseph Hallam.

It looks like Henry Bray was a parish clerk as he witnessed a lot of marriages.
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 08 September 19 08:50 BST (UK)
I don't suppose there is any mention of Robert's age in the records, that would help to identify which one is my ancestor. I know Nancy was born in 1770 so she was around 20 when married so may suggest that the 1770 Robert is correct, but just guesswork for now,

Barry
Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 08 September 19 09:14 BST (UK)
Not sure if the Marriage Bond/Allegation has survived.  If it has then ages are often shown.

Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 08 September 19 09:34 BST (UK)
The Bond and Allegation have survived, and transcribed as Robert Moton, although the image clearly shows Morton - Diocese of Lichfield Marriage Bonds - FindMyPast.

Robert Morton of Disley in the parish of Stockport, a widower and Husbandman aged 34 (and upwards) and Nancy or Ann Robinson, aged 21 (and upwards) of Glossop.


ADDED:  I have submitted corrections to FindMyPast - Moton should be Morton, Robinosn should be Robinson and Robert's age from 21 to 34.





Title: Re: Alfred Mortin born Oldham 1909
Post by: bmortin9 on Sunday 08 September 19 09:43 BST (UK)
Thanks, looks like the Robert born 1752 is a good match, as a widower that would explain why he is older than Nancy,

Barry