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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Drop Bear on Friday 16 August 19 05:03 BST (UK)
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Good Afternoon All,
I am trying to verify the parents of Richard James Ludlow born 1868 Sydney New South Wales.
He married Lucy Marion Martin in 1904. They had one child. Lucy died from complications during child birth.
There are two births in 1868 for a Richard J Ludlow one registered Sydney with parents of Richard and Elizabeth. The other one registered Glebe (I know that is also Sydney) with parents of Richard W and Elizabeth. Common names, I know, but I want to know which one is correct so I can go back further.
From his death in 1938 I know that he was born 71 years prior, which makes birth year about 1867. He was born in Sydney and moved as a child with his parents to Tenterfield. He was into Gold and Tin mining. In about 1923 he moved with his 2nd wife Margaret and son to Tweed.
That is the extent of my knowledge. Any help finding who his parents were and if he had any brother and sisters would be most helpful.
P.S. I do have a family of 8 children being: Janet R, Helen M, Richard J, Thomas H, William J, Henry A, Elizabeth P & James A but cannot 100% confirm that it is all the same family.
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Hello
I have just looked at the bdm nsw site and the death they have in 1938 (ref 9409 Murwillumbah District) has parents Peter James and Lily Ludlow.
There is also an obituary for the above death on trove.nla in the Tweed Daily for 20/4/1938 which mentions born in Sydney, moved to Tenterfield, 1st wife Lucy Martin and 2nd wife Mrs M Marshall.
Jackie
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Hi Jackie,
Okey dokey, that is a completely different path again. Back to the drawing board.
Yes the only concrete information I have was from the obituary which I have 100% confirmed is his.
Thank you.
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I have looked again at the bdm nsw site for siblings born in 1860-1875 range and no one comes up for Peter James & Lily.
There are a couple for Richard & Elizabeth (Sydney) - Hannette R 1546/1863 and Thomas H 307/1872.
Haven't found any trace of Peter James or Lily Ludlow yet.
Jackie
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Re those two 1868 listings at NSWBDM online.
One is for a birth, and one is for an Early Church Record, a baptism .... I suggest these both refer to the one baby. I suggest an official transcription of the birth will have far more info than the baptism one.
The one with the letter V in the reference no. is the Early Church Record.
Re the names displayed for that death registration .... please do not expect NSW BDM to have cross checked the accuracy of the informant's knowledge on any NSWBDM death registration. The info will include names of the children of the deceased and ither valuable family history details.
JM
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I have just had a look at familysearch and they have Richard James' parents as Richard William Peter James Ludlow and Elizabeth Lily Gray.
More checking required I think.
Jackie
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Thank you JM,
I agree with cross reference as Richard's second wife (I am only assuming) may not have known his parents names especially if they were deceased. As far as I know between the two marriages of Richard James, there was only the one child.
Thank you Jackie,
That is possibly the Janet R born 1863, died 1863 and Thomas H born 1872, died 1873 that I have found.
Yes cannot find a Peter James & Lily either
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I have just had a look at familysearch and they have Richard James' parents as Richard William Peter James Ludlow and Elizabeth Lily Gray.
More checking required I think.
Jackie
That is the family I have found with the 8 children I mentioned in my original post, I just don't know if that is the family I am looking for, but now Peter James and Lily may be making sense, not quite sure.
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The marriage certificate would name his parents
BDM NSW marriage
3744/1904 LUDLOW Richard J marr. MARTIN Lucy M @ Drake
Also -
7693/1898 LUDLOW Ellen M marr. WRIGHT Alfred @ Drake
9077/1902 LUDLOW Elizabeth P marr. JONES Henry J @ Drake
death
1082/1905 LUDLOW Lucy parents John T / Emma J @ Drake
birth
2978/1905 LUDLOW William J parents Richard J / Lucy M @ Drake
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Thank you wivenhoe,
Can I get a 1904 marriage certificate???
I have everything on Lucy Marion Martin, that is 100% confirmed and her son William James Ludlow is also 100% confirmed.
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State Archives NSW KeyName search -
Randwick Asylum for Destitute
LUDLOW Ellen 5 yrs admitted 28/12/1871
LUDLOW Richard James 3 yrs admitted 28/12/1871
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The probate packet may contain marriage details/certificates
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/632394
Richard James Ludlow - Date of Death 18/04/1938, Granted on 11/05/1939 #Series 4-239156
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Maybe a request for Ros to kindly look up the probate next time she is at the archives
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.msg6787711#new
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State Archives NSW KeyName search -
Randwick Asylum for Destitute
LUDLOW Ellen 5 yrs admitted 28/12/1871
LUDLOW Richard James 3 yrs admitted 28/12/1871
Oohh :'( :'(
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Maybe a request for Ros to kindly look up the probate next time she is at the archives
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.msg6787711#new
Thank you I have done ;D ;D
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Tweed Daily 1 Dec 1938 p4
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/194010126?
...obit for Margaret Lindsay LUDLOW.....stepson William LUDLOW (Billinudgel)......
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Thank you wivenhoe,
Must have missed that one
Thanks
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Tweed Daily 1 May 1930 p5
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/193572223?
....at Billinudgel.....marriage William L the son of Mr R LUDLOW of Murwillumbah and the late Mrs LUDLOW of Drake......Mrs MARTIN grandmother of the bridegroom......
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60508236
In The Empire (a Sydney newspaper) 18 and 21 March 1862
MARRIAGES.
LUDLOW-GRAY.-At 105, Princes-street, on the 15th of March, by special license, by the Rev. John Reid, of the Scots Church, Church-hill, Richard Ludlow, native of Greenwich, England, to Elizabeth Gray, daughter of the late John Gray, Inverness, Scotland.
Australian Marriage index:
NSW,#221 1862 at Sydney:
Elizabeth Gray
Richard Ludlow
Judith
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Tweed Daily 1 May 1930 p5
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/193572223?
....at Billinudgel.....marriage William L the son of Mr R LUDLOW of Murwillumbah and the late Mrs LUDLOW of Drake......Mrs MARTIN grandmother of the bridegroom......
Thank you, I have the original of this. This is the marriage of my husbands Grandparents ;D
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60508236
In The Empire (a Sydney newspaper) 18 and 21 March 1862
MARRIAGES.
LUDLOW-GRAY.-At 105, Princes-street, on the 15th of March, by special license, by the Rev. John Reid, of the Scots Church, Church-hill, Richard Ludlow, native of Greenwich, England, to Elizabeth Gray, daughter of the late John Gray, Inverness, Scotland.
Australian Marriage index:
NSW,#221 1862 at Sydney:
Elizabeth Gray
Richard Ludlow
Judith
Ok, this is the line I was chasing but was not sure if it is right. Hhmm I wonder??? Also why special license.
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This looks to be the death of his father:
NSW 1886 Registered Tenterfield #13934
Richard W LUDLOW
Father's name: Richard
Mother's name: Anne
Judith
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This looks to be the death of his father:
NSW 1886 Registered Tenterfield #13934
Richard W LUDLOW
Father's name: Richard
Mother's name: Anne
Judith
If it is that Richard, I have his parents as William Ludlow & Ann Hawes. This is my dilema which ones are correct
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Burial
LUDLOW Richard William
Aged 49
Death Mar 1, 1886
At Boonoo Boonoo
Burial Mar 3, 1886
Buried at Boonoo Boonoo
Sue
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It would seem to me to be highly likely that what you have is correct, but, as you say, it would be nice to be sure!
Purchasing the marriage certificate for your Richard and Elizabeth GRAY may help, as it should give you the name of Richard's father.
Re the Special Licence - JM will know more about this in NSW than I do.
Death certificates are often incorrect as the informant is often a generation younger and is thus not acquainted with the parents of the deceased, nor of the early life of the deceased, so the record showing his father as Richard may well be incorrect, or it may have been his second name.
I am assuming that, as you already have names for the parents of Richard W LUDLOW that you also have a baptism and the 1841 census entry for them? If not I'm happy to post them for you.
Too many Richards and Williams in different order makes it confusing!
Judith
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Thank you Judith,
I think I will start with the Marriage Certificate of Richard James & Lucy Marion as I know that to be correct.
Yes, I have assumed (wrong I know) that Richard's second wife may not have known who his parents were.
I do have a Baptism of the Richard I am questioning with a date of 5th Feb 1834 St. Alphage Greenwich Kent.
I do have alot of info on this family but I am not willing to accept it yet. I have gone down the wrong track before and have just ended up confusing myself more.
Thank you for helping ;D
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I think that's the best thing to do. You probably know that using a transcription agent is quicker and cheaper than ordering from the NSW BMD direct.
It may also give you some information on Elizabeth's origins. I don't have much experience with Scottish family history!
Please let us know when you get some further information. Good luck with it
Judith
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Thank you Judith,
Yes I have just applied with Joy the transcript lady. She has helped me out in the past.
I really appreciate your help. :) :)
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I have just had a look at familysearch and they have Richard James' parents as Richard William Peter James Ludlow and Elizabeth Lily Gray.
Remember Lily is often a derivative of Elizabeth.
This is the death notice/obituary of Ellen Mary WRIGHT.
She was born in Sydney with (EDIT) parents Richard and Elizabeth in 1866 (*921)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/96562548?
She had an illegimate daughter, Beatrice A (who married in Tenterfield.)
LUDLOW Beatrice A
35059/1892
Mother ELLEN M
At TENTERFIELD
Ellen married
7693/1898
WRIGHT Alfred
LUDLOW Ellen M
At DRAKE
Ellen died
WRIGHT Ellen Mary
24451/1951
Parents Richard & Elizabeth
At LISMORE
Her death notice mentions a surviving brother in QLD whose death you can find.
James Albert LUDLOW. His parents are Richard and Elizabeth GREY (sic)
These names fit the family of eight children.
Sue
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My pleasure - I like a good search!
I have some ancestors who were in Greenwich in 1841 as well. Judith
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Thank you sparrett,
I didn't know about the illegitimate daughter. I do hope this is the family I am looking for.
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My pleasure - I like a good search!
I have some ancestors who were in Greenwich in 1841 as well. Judith
Look out. If this is the family I am looking for I may call call upon you to help with Greenwich, Kent ;D ;D ::)
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I have just been annoying Dr Google and came across Find My Past. When I type in the marriage of Richard and Lucy, it comes up and says "view transcription" but of course I need to subscribe. Can anyone tell me if it is an actual transcription or just what is available from BDM.
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Hi Dropbear
Many libraries have free access to findmypast and ancestry.
Write down the searches you require, then go to the library, and redo the searches, then you will be able to view and print the relevant documents.
Regards
Jennaya
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Hi Dropbear
Many libraries have free access to findmypast and ancestry.
Write down the searches you require, then go to the library, and redo the searches, then you will be able to view and print the relevant documents.
Regards
Jennaya
I am in Regional Queensland so not sure about that. I will check my Libray tomorrow though. I do have access to Ancestry just wasn't sure if FindMyPast was different as it actually says "view transcript"
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Hi Dropbear
I'm not sure either about what will be on the transcript. Hopefully your library will have access.
Regards
Jennaya
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Have checked findmypast for the 1904 marriage for Richard J Ludlow and Lucy M Martin and it is just a record of what is available from bdm nsw (ref 3744/1904 district Drake). Looks like you will need to get a copy of the actual document to see more information.
Jackie
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Have checked findmypast for the 1904 marriage for Richard J Ludlow and Lucy M Martin and it is just a record of what is available from bdm nsw (ref 3744/1904 district Drake). Looks like you will need to get a copy of the actual document to see more information.
Jackie
Thank you Jackie,
Yes I have ordered a transcript. I was curious as to what info was available on FindMyPast as opposed to Anc. I appreciate you looking for me, saved me some money, yay. ;D
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NSW Electoral Roll 1902 RICHMOND, polling at Drake. (includes females for first time)
All with the surname MARTIN
Edward, of Drake, miner
Emma, of Drake, domestic duties
Lucy, of Drake, domestic duties
John Thomas, of Drake, miner
All with the surname LUDLOW
Henry Andrew, of Drake, miner
Richard James, of Drake, miner
William John, of Drake, miner
Elizabeth JONES, of Drake, domestic duties
Henry James JONES, of Drake, miner
NONE at Drake with the surname WRIGHT (may have been at other polling places in the Richmond electorate, I have not looked through my paper copies of all those many polling places.)
JM
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NSW ER 1878 TENTERFIELD
Richard LUDLOW, residence, Boonoo Boonoo, in the Tenterfield Police District.
JM
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https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/blogs/sands-directory-completely-digitised-city-sydney-archives
Sands Street Directory Sydney 1869
21 Chambers Street Robert LUDLOW
3 Chambers Street – VACANT
Sands Street Directory Sydney 1870
21 Chambers Street Richard LUDLOW
3 Chambers Street – Daniel McDONALD – butcher
Sands Street Directory Sydney 1871
3 Chambers Street Richard LUDLOW
Chambers Street stops at no. 16 and 17.
Sands Street Directory 1873 for Chambers Street – NONE with surname LUDLOW
Sands Alphabetic Directory 1873 for Sydney – NONE with surname LUDLOW
Robert - who was he? :)
JM
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Thank you so much, JM
I think I will leave Richard for this week as I have ordered the Marriage Certificate to confirm his parents.
I can confirm his wife's parents from her headstone. They are John Thomas Martin and Emma Jane Hancock. So, that would definitely be her family on the 1902 Electoral Roll. I might trace her family for now, until I am certain on Richard, as her family shows an Edward that I am not aware of. Even though she died at the tender age of 26 she is still family.