RootsChat.Com

Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: PAFC on Friday 09 August 19 01:10 BST (UK)

Title: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Friday 09 August 19 01:10 BST (UK)
I am trying to find the date of Owen Robert Colverd's marriage to Marjorie (nee George; then Judd; then Simmonds) in about 1946, probably in New South Wales. He was born in 1892, she in 1905. can anyone help, please?
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: warncoort on Friday 09 August 19 01:26 BST (UK)
NSW BDM index is free to search.
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-research-nsw.aspx
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Friday 09 August 19 03:52 BST (UK)
NSW 3/06/1946 marriage Marjorie Emma is listed under JUDD and WALLACE
8935/1946 Owen COLVERD and Marjorie Emma JUDD; Sydney
8935/1946 Owen COLVERD and Marjorie Emma WALLACE; Sydney
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Friday 09 August 19 13:32 BST (UK)
Thank you very much to both of you who have responded to my query. The web link will be very useful, and now I have not only the wedding date but the possibility that my Dad's first wife was even more of serial marrier than I realised! 'Wallace' hadn't appeared yet in any of the records I had accessed so far.
Marjorie Judd, divorcee, married my father Edwin Charles Simmonds in 1931 in the UK, but deserted him after only seven months. He always said she 'ran off to be an actress' and used the stage name 'Marjorie (or Margery?) D'Or (rather than Daw.) I can't find anything about this. Now I need to chase the Wallace connection!
Dad had to wait seven years of course before he could apply for a divorce; this came through in January 1941 and he and his second Marjorie (nee Gowan), my mother, married on January 22nd 1941. I arrived two years later. It amuses me that Ancestry refers to Marjorie No.1 as my stepmother when I wasn't even a twinkle in Dad's eye.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Friday 09 August 19 14:09 BST (UK)
Still can't find marjorie Emma marrying a Wallace. Maybe she took it as a 'stage name' and that's why both appear on her 1946 marriage certificate?
BTW - is 3/06/1946 June 3rd or March 6th???
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Friday 09 August 19 15:41 BST (UK)
Still can't find marjorie Emma marrying a Wallace. Maybe she took it as a 'stage name' and that's why both appear on her 1946 marriage certificate?
BTW - is 3/06/1946 June 3rd or March 6th???

Marriage date 3rd June 1946
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Friday 09 August 19 15:59 BST (UK)
Thank you! Most grateful.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Saturday 10 August 19 12:15 BST (UK)
 ;D The name of the paper “Truth” is funny, as it appears that Marjorie Emma JUDD was still legally married to Raymond Athelstane JUDD when she married your father Edwin Charles Simmonds in 1931 in the UK. And if the JUDD divorce papers were served on her at Rangoon, she possibly married WALLACE there?

Truth 24July1932 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/169139325
...That was years ago, and he hasn't seen her since. As a matter of fact, Marjorie fled to foreign parts, for the papers were served on her at  RANGOON  

SMH 21July1932 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16906041
Raymond Athelstane Judd v Marjorie Emma Judd (formerly George) Issue conjugal rights Marriage May 2, 1924 at the district registrar’s office Hurstville. His Honor made an order directing respondent to return to the husband within 30 days

SMH 23July1932 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16921248
UNDEFENDED SUIT. Raymond Athelstane Judd v Marjorie Emma Judd (formerly George). Marriage, May 2, 1924, at the district registrar's office, Hurstville. Decree nisi, returnable in six months, on the ground of desertion.

SMH 26July1933 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28027279
Decrees absolute were pronounced in the suits of....
Raymond Athelstane Judd v Marjorie Emma Judd

https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/354445
Divorce papers Marjorie Emma Judd Raymond Athelstane Judd #1032/1930
*** If you are interested in reading the divorce file (often contains a marriage certificate), you could put a request for Ros who very generously does lookups for Rootschatters, when she visits the Archives. https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.msg6770360;boardseen#new
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Saturday 10 August 19 13:00 BST (UK)
This is astonishing! I had Dad and Marjorie's 'marriage' year wrong  - it was 1933 not 1931. But they married on June 1st 1933 - apparently well before Marjorie's Decree Nisi at the end of July!
Thank you so much for taking this trouble - I will certainly follow up on your suggestion to ask Ros if I can take a look at the divorce papers, as well as reading through the links you have so generously supplied.
Her mother also had a colourful history, first marrying a Harold George in 1904, but at some point he is gone from the scene and she gets wed to a Cuthbert Alvin Fisher apparently twice with one marriage to him recorded in Bombay in 1919, and a second recorded, to the same husband, in Calcutta in December 1930. When Dad visited her (and first met Marjorie) in Sydney in 1924 Marjorie's mother was definitely Addie Leigh Fisher (born Adeline Leigh Muckleston in Newcastle NSW.)
I shall press on with my researches! Thank you again.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: jorose on Saturday 10 August 19 17:31 BST (UK)
Picture of her mother:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229247645?searchTerm=%22Addie%20Leigh%22&searchLimits=

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230484269?searchTerm=%22Adeline%20Leigh%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
Harold George first sought to divorce Adeline in 1909
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15967966?searchTerm=%22Adeline%20Leigh%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
but it looks like the divorce wasn't fully finalised until 1921 - perhaps this is why there are two marriages to C.A. Fisher



As to Marjorie, in 1934 she was using the name "Marjorie Leigh" and had been in India as an actress
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229213279?searchTerm="Marjorie%20Leigh"

(note she is listed as the daughter of "H. George of Waverley")

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/247202521?searchTerm=%22Marjorie%20Leigh%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc|||l-state=New+South+Wales
 - Mrs M.E. Wallace, aka Marjorie Leigh, was in Rhodesia in 1936 with her husband who managed the Jumbo Mine

So perhaps we're looking for a marriage to Mr Wallace, if it exists, around 1934-1936?
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 10 August 19 22:37 BST (UK)
Marjorie Emma Wallace (is this her?)
In1943
Subdistrict   Narrabeen
New South Wales
Warringah
She lived at Palm Beah Rd Palm Beach. Performed home duties and no others of the surname with her
Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 11 August 19 05:24 BST (UK)
Yes, that is her because at the same address in 1943 is Owen COLVERD, company director.

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 05:45 BST (UK)
Mr Owen COLVERD, Company Director, he embarked at Durban, and was a Cabin passenger on board the Ceramic arriving 25 September 1936, to NSW.  He was aged 43, single, and his last country of permanent residence was England.    Also onboard was Mrs M.E. Wallace, destined for Sydney.

http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/12076682/1

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 06:13 BST (UK)
http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/12056117/1

Mrs Marjorie WALLACE known as Leigh ... embarked Bombay for Sydney, arriving June 1934.  Sydney Address :
Bundah, 2 Goldie Ave, Waverley.
 
According to Sands Sydney Suburban Directories, 1932-33,  Mrs Fanny GEORGE was at 2 Goldie St, Waverley.
http://cdn.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/history/archives/sands/1930-1933/1932-1933-part8.pdf  (scroll through, around actual page number  900 (top left hand corner)

JM

Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 06:15 BST (UK)
Electoral Roll 1934, WENTWORTH, polling Bondi.

Fanny GEORGE, 2 Goldie Ave, home duties
Harold GEORGE, 2 Goldie Ave, accountant.

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 11 August 19 06:49 BST (UK)
If I am doing the dates correctly, she was still Mrs SIMMONDS when she became Mrs WALLACE (if there was in fact a marriage ::))
Arrived to stay with her parents in June 1934 -as WALLACE/LEIGH -which was only  a year after her marriage to SIMMONDS .

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 07:00 BST (UK)
 :)  That's how I would read it too.

GRO  Vol 4a page 1315 June quarter, 1933.
Marjorie E GEORGE and SIMMONDS, Romford, Essex
Edwin C SIMMONDS, and GEORGE, same reference info.   


Hi Ros,
Rootschat's 'Cupoflife' suggested that I ask you if you could supply me with an image of the divorce papers of Marjorie Emma Judd and Raymond Athelstane Judd #1032/1930.

This lady was my father's (Edwin Charles Simmonds) first wife - and it turns out the union (in London, UK) was probably bigamous. She seems to have led a string of besotted men a merry dance! She left him after only 7 months, and he had to wait seven years to marry my mother.

I'd be most grateful for any help you can give me.

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Sunday 11 August 19 07:32 BST (UK)
I am astonished at the amount of information I've woken up to this morning! And so grateful for the interest and the research work of all of you here at RootsChat. I now have a far clearer picture of the maverick behaviour of both the 'Leighs', and I can try inputting some of this fresh information into Ancestry in case there is anything else. I still have no picture of Marjorie; she was, according to Dad's memoir - which I am currently transcribing - extremely beautiful. And from what I have learned so far an utterly unscrupulous (and literal!) gold-digger. Thank you all so very much.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 11 August 19 08:30 BST (UK)
PACF
Had you followed up on the co-respondent in the divorce case of Marjorie's mother Adeline??
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/169179811

Only a couple of months later this man was dead under tragic circumstances.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/221473118

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Sunday 11 August 19 08:54 BST (UK)
Picture of Marjorie Leigh
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/126412970
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246679201
Some more articles:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230313231
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246682369
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230320379
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17085149
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229214211
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/132429094
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/194777704
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/193017268
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/28018961
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10945690/561381
Advertisements:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17122680
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230316798
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17121958
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17109667
CAREER FOR GIRLS.
Culture and Modern Dancing under Miss Marjorie Leigh, of London, with a view of becoming Associate Teachers. Miss Leigh is a recognised authority on Figure Culture, modern European, Egyptian, and Russian dancing. American Tap and Rhythm, and Modern Point Work, a member of the Imperial Society of Teachers of Dancing, a Film and Stage Star, and has just completed an extensive tour of England, Africa, and India
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17126319
LANGRIDGE SCHOOL OP PHYSICAL CULTURE
Vacancies for two young Ladies to study Figure Culture and Modern Dancing under Miss Marjorie
Leigh of London...
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 11 August 19 09:32 BST (UK)
PACF
Had you followed up on the co-respondent in the divorce case of Marjorie's mother Adeline??
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/169179811

Only a couple of months later this man was dead under tragic circumstances.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/221473118

Sue

This man had married in July 1920

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15897358
The record can be located on NSW bmd search

His wife was the executrix in the will.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15943885

A tragic story all together.

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 10:47 BST (UK)
1935, 1936 Electoral Roll WENTWORTH, Bondi
all with surname GEORGE at 2 Goldie Avenue,  :)

Fanny, home duties
Harold, accountant
Marjorie Emma, home duties

Sydney Anglican Parish Registers
Baptised 2 July 1905 at St Matthias, Centennial Park.  (near Victoria Barracks)
Majery Emma, born May 16th 1905, daughter of Harold &  Adeline Leigh GEORGE, of 19 Little Queen Street, Paddington, he a clerk.    Snip attached to confirm spelling for her Christian names ::)
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Sunday 11 August 19 12:04 BST (UK)
May I gently suggest that Fanny GEORGE may have been mother of Harold GEORGE, and perhaps the widow of Robert GEORGE, and thus Fanny would be Majorie's paternal Grandmother...

I think Fanny died 18 April 1942, and NSW Archives may have her probate packet.  If Fanny is Harold's mum, then his sisters Anne Frances CLARKE and Edith Alice BARBER were the beneficiaries of her estate.   ADD, £1860 2/7d nett

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Sunday 11 August 19 12:24 BST (UK)
Sue, MAJM and Cupoflife, I am overwhelmed! I have learned so much from you all today. It's like Christmas! Thank you so much. I now know what Marjorie looked like (yes, she was beautiful) and why she really came over to London for those life-changing two years for Dad ... 'Bollywood' and Dancing! And would you believe it, his 2nd wife was also called Marjorie and she was also a dancer! She used to be a professional dance partner at venues like the Hammersmith Palais, paid 'sixpence a dance' by those who had no-one to dance with to the wonderful dance and jazz bands of the 1930s. My father clearly had a 'type.' Mum was another quite glamorous looker - but a much, much sweeter and more loyal person than Marjorie Leigh. Thank you for the nudge re Fanny George, and her death date; I had failed to find that. The Ancestry profiles are filling up, and will continue to do so after this morning. My tree is public: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/22427996/family if you want to see where all this has got me so far.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Sunday 11 August 19 12:35 BST (UK)
May I gently suggest that Fanny GEORGE may have been mother of Harold GEORGE, and perhaps the widow of Robert GEORGE, and thus Fanny would be Majorie's paternal Grandmother...

I think Fanny died 18 April 1942, and NSW Archives may have her probate packet.  If Fanny is Harold's mum, then his sisters Anne Frances CLARKE and Edith Alice BARBER were the beneficiaries of her estate.   ADD, £1860 2/7d nett

JM

Death notice (left hand page in this link) https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=lL5f5cZgq8MC&dat=19420421&printsec=frontpage&hl=en
GEORGE - April 18, 1942, Fanny relict of Robert William George and loving mother of Edith (Daisy, Mrs F. A. Barber), Harold, Raymond, Anne (Mrs F. W. Clarke) and Winifred (Mrs Wood deceased). Aged 83 years. Privately cremated.

Probate Packet: https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/item/250071
Fanny George - Date of Death 18/04/1942, Granted On 08/06/1942 Series 4-268607
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Sunday 11 August 19 13:16 BST (UK)
Thank you, Cup-of-Life! You are so generous with your help. Pam.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 12 August 19 02:13 BST (UK)
Welcome  :) all a Rootschat team effort  :)
Picture of Owen Colverd (page 2) https://www.scottishshale.co.uk/DigitalAssets/pdf/BP/217012.pdf
A mention of Owen Colverd https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248560968
Not sure if the tree owner has any info on the WALLACE marriage https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Colverd-56
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: cupoflife on Monday 12 August 19 06:32 BST (UK)
SMH 1Sept1989 pg 30 COLVERD, Marjorie Emma -August 29, 1989, loved wife of Owen (deceased). Privately cremated.
Probate notice 5Oct1989 pg46....After 14 days...Probate of the Will dated 11th February, 1977, of MARJORIE EMMA COLVERD, formerly of Mosman, but late of The Garrison Retirement Centre, 13 Spit Road, Spit Junction...
ADDING:
Executors named were:
Kenneth Hal KINNINMONT (died 14th Feb 1997, late of Northbridge, formerly of Nelson Bay) and
Keith Bevan CAMPBELL (died 15MAR1988) ...”having predeceased the Testatrix. Creditors are required to send particulars of their claims upon her Estate to Phillips Fox Solicitors 20 Bond Street Sydney 2000..”

Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Monday 12 August 19 07:01 BST (UK)
I have already tried contacting Tim Colverd via Ancestry, but with no response. Tried again on WikiTree just now. Thank you for the picture of Owen Colverd in the article he wrote - he looks so like my Dad! Marjorie also must have had a 'type'!  Thank you for the new information on her death and probate.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Monday 12 August 19 09:16 BST (UK)
There is a slim chance that the whole name of Mr WALLACE may appear on the death certificate of Marjorie COLVERD.
Marriage(s) details are requested.

It would depend entirely on the knowledge of the informant assisting in the record.
Marjorie seemed to have very little family and also seems to have outlived many of her connections too, so hard to imagine the details would be accurate and complete.

Anyhow, for your interest, there is a 30 year closure on death certificates in NSW and a transcription will be cheaper than a copy.

https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/family-history-search.aspx

Sue

 
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Monday 12 August 19 11:53 BST (UK)
Thank you Sue! I'll go and check out the link.
I may have found a contender for Wallace this morning - I looked at the 1939 UK register and found an Archibald Ure Wallace who was born in 1900 and whose occupation, interestingly, was 'Mining Surveyor.' Marjorie went with Wallace in 1933 0r 1934 to his Rhodesian gold mine. If this turns out to be the right chap, he was seriously playing away, as he had a wife, Dorothy, at home, with whom he is listed in 1939, and whom he married in 1931.

I had a friendly reply from Tim Colverd this morning, giving me access to his tree. Contact via WikiTree worked!

Pam
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Monday 12 August 19 12:22 BST (UK)
Good to hear of a positive contact.
Do keep us posted. ;D
Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Monday 12 August 19 23:50 BST (UK)
Can't sleep! So doing more research - and I've found where Mrs Marjorie Emma 'Wallace' aka Marjorie Leigh met Owen Robert Colverd! I had a feeling about all the globe-trotting, and checked out the ships' manifests. Here she is in 1936 coming home to Sydney from Cape Town on the 'Ceramic' after her gold-mining year with Mr Wallace -
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5378/32704_334610-00270/1039614?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/22427996/person/1239286331/facts
  - and a few pages away on the same ship, same journey, but embarked at Durban, is Owen Colverd! Shipboard romance that actually ended up as a solid marriage in the end.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5378/32704_334610-00267/1034769?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/22427996/person/422115177566/facts
The Imperial School for Teachers of Dancing still exists in London, so I'll email them and see if they have any record of Marjorie in 1931-33, and if so, what name she was registered under. I can't find Wallace on any of her ships around then, and she was already 'Mrs. Marjorie E Wallace' when she fled England in October 1933 after deserting Dad as swiftly as she deserted Raymond Judd. She had arrived in 1930 as Judd, and is Judd on the 1933 Marriage Certificate with Dad (Edwin C Simmonds) which I have among his papers.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Monday 12 August 19 23:56 BST (UK)
Yes,   here

Mr Owen COLVERD, Company Director, he embarked at Durban, and was a Cabin passenger on board the Ceramic arriving 25 September 1936, to NSW.  He was aged 43, single, and his last country of permanent residence was England.    Also onboard was Mrs M.E. Wallace, destined for Sydney.

http://soda.naa.gov.au/record/12076682/1

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Tuesday 13 August 19 00:10 BST (UK)
Did I miss that yesterday?!? But rewarding to have ferreted it out myself as well. Thank you for the reminder! :)
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 05:37 BST (UK)
There is a Marjorie JUDD arriving from Marseilles per the Narkunda to London on 5 September 1930.  She was aged 25 years and a clerk.

Nothing to show she was from Australia or from India, although that voyage had commenced in Australia.   Northing to show if she was a married woman.  Her last place of permanent residence was England and her intended place was also England.   Her proposed address was Dulwich Village, S.E.   There is NOTHING in that document that confirms if that is Marjorie Emma nee GEORGE born in NSW.   This passenger embarked from Marseilles. 

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 05:59 BST (UK)
There is a Mrs Marjorie WALLACE embarking Calcutta for London Plymouth ... occupation nil, aged 27, intended address in Barry.  Last permanent residence INDIA, intended permanent WALES, arriving 28 June 1932.

There is also in Feb 1932 on the Dunbar Castle a Marjorie WALLACE aged 29, a married woman with TWO children aged 2 (a boy and a girl, I won't name them - could still be living) arriving London.  Their last place of permanent residence was Nyasaland (it later became part of Rhodesia).  They left from Beira (Mozambique).  They intended England as their next permanent residence and were for Boscombe, Hants.  (its now in Dorset !)

Very Speculative,  Wallace was a popular surname then and still is.

JM

Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Tuesday 13 August 19 07:24 BST (UK)
I know. I found this too - tantalizing because of the anomalies. But the timing is about right. Still looking. I've emailed the Imperial School of Teachers of Dancing (ISTD) in London to see if they'll look in their records for 1930-1933, as that is when she was a member according to the 1934 Sydney newspapers. And of course what name she was using!
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 07:42 BST (UK)
familysearch may have some records for Rhodesia  - perhaps search for the possible births of the possible twins and possible info about their parents...

https://www.familysearch.org/search/

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 08:25 BST (UK)
Marjorie's mum re-married in India in 1930

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGJZ-S38

Adeline Leigh GEORGE, aged 40, married Cuthvert Awan FISHER aged 48, on 16 December 1930, Calcutta. 

I leave it to others to sort out who Samuel Roger MUCKLESTON was, but it seems he was listed as Adeline's father...

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 08:28 BST (UK)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGV5-QZ3

Not to be confused with the following marriage

Adeline LEIGH, aged 30, married Cuthbert Aloan FISHER aged 36, in Bombay, 14 June 1919.

Adeline's father's name there as LEIGH !

JM  ::)
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 08:56 BST (UK)
Samuel Roger MUCKLESTON died in 1939 in NSW

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17572589  15 March 1939
- of Waverley 

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 09:23 BST (UK)
It was too much of a tease, I had to follow up a tad …

NSW Electoral Roll 1902 (not the 1903-4 Roll on Ancestry)
WENTWORTH, polling Bondi.   The 1902 roll is the first NSW roll to include females.

Emma MUCKLESTON, 30 Kenilworth St, domestic duties
Samuel John MUCKLESTON, 30 Kenilworth St, warrant officer
Charles SIMMONDS, 36 Kenilworth St, compositor
Eleanor Mary SIMMONDS 36 Kenilworth St, domestic duties

Sands Sydney Directory 1900 (so closing date for entries was October 1899)
WAVERLEY suburban
Kenilworth Street, North Side
(at number) 36 SIMMONDS Chas., compositor

Sands Sydney Alpha 1905
SIMMONDS, C, 36 Kenilworth St, Waverley
MUCKLESTON S.R. 30 Kenilworth St Waverley

Perhaps Majorie Emma was Emma from her Grandmother Muckleston.
I have included these several SIMMONDS listings just in case …

PS, the NSW 'Census' (scant info on those 'census' documents) for B subdistrict in Waverley ... has S R Muckleston at 30 Kenilworth St , 2 males and 2 females (no other info) and Chas Simmonds at 36 Kenilworth St 2 males, 3 females.

45 males and 51 females counted on that one page, none were recorded as Chinese or Aborgines

JM

Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 13 August 19 09:30 BST (UK)
Just summing up to get a timeline here.

In June  1934 Marjorie returned to Sydney as Mrs WALLACE from Bombay where she had been making a film.

She planned to stay a couple of months before returning.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229213279

But was still here late 1934
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/246684542
 
In Oct 1936, she returned from Rhodesia per Ceramic as Mrs M E WALLACE (her own initials I think) and expressed her intentions of imparting her special skills to students back there in Africa.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/230015651


So the window for the "marriage" to WALLACE seems to be from  January/February 1934 (this would be the end of the 7 months marriage to Edwin SIMMONDS which you say lasted 7 months)  to June 1934 (when she was back in Australia as WALLACE.)

The "marriage" may have been in England or India

Allowing that the 1934 voyage from Bombay per Ceramic to Sydney would have taken some weeks, the window is further reduced.

Marjorie seems absent from news items for some years after the early 1930's and reappears in the early 1940's producing pantomimes around Sydney and using the surname WALLACE until her marriage to COLVERD.

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Tuesday 13 August 19 09:37 BST (UK)
And in 1935 and 1936 she was listed on the Electoral Roll in Waverley NSW as Marjorie Emma GEORGE, in Goldie St !  Home Duties

JM  :D
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Tuesday 13 August 19 13:52 BST (UK)
If you check out Marjorie Emma George and her mum Adeline on my public tree (Cranes and Simmonds Family Tree) you'll see I've already done most of this work.

Addie's Mum was Emma Hodge, and she goes back to a family in Faversham UK (where we lived from 1981-2002!). I have also her Muckleston line from her father Samuel.
She married Cuthbert Alvin (twice mis-spelt) Fisher twice - first in Bombay with the wrong family name while she was still technically married to Harold George; secondly with her correct name once the Decree Absolute had gone through. But she seems to have abandoned Cuthbert pretty early, possibly because of her concurrent long affair with Garnet Haughton who was named as co-respondent in her divorce from Harold.

By mid-1924 when Dad arrived Addie was running a theatrical boarding house as Addie Leigh or Addie Leigh Fisher - but no sign of the husband.
 
I have Mrs.Marjorie E Wallace on a ship going to Colombo in October 1933. She seems to have been Simmonds for a mere four months, not the seven I was led to believe. Hopefully Dad's memoir will clarify some of this when I get to the Interesting Bit!

I've trawled through many Marjorie Wallaces and their journeys but discounted them - a) too many b) husbands with them at wrong addresses and in the wrong job. The only appropriate Wallace I've found so far is a Mines Surveyor listed in the UK 1939 register, Archibald Ure Wallace. Married, but maybe playing away like Marjorie. She bewitched men.

Thanks for the Simmonds hints - I'm not sure if that's my family though - unless it's another of Gran's many siblings. I'll check.

Dad worked mainly as a semi-itinerant Jackaroo while he was out there from 1924-1931.

Pam
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 13 August 19 23:21 BST (UK)

 
I have Mrs.Marjorie E Wallace on a ship going to Colombo in October 1933. She seems to have been Simmonds for a mere four months, not the seven I was led to believe. Hopefully Dad's memoir will clarify some of this when I get to the Interesting Bit!

 
 
Pam

Is her last address familiar to you?

129 Empress Ave, Ilford?

There are no others named Wallace on the “Esperance Bay" from UK in Oct 1933.
Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Wednesday 14 August 19 05:25 BST (UK)
Hi Sue - yes, I found the Ilford address in my searches, but can't link it to anyone else. However, it is in Essex, and very close to Romford where my father's family were concentrated, so it could well be a lodging address. I'm still hoping for a response from the Dance school. Nowhere, so far, is Marjorie identifying as Simmonds despite going through a marriage ceremony.
I have found a news clip in 'Truth' on Trove about Raymond Judd falling under a tram in 1942 and breaking several ribs - clearly an accident this time.
Pam
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 August 19 06:01 BST (UK)
Mariners and Ships in Australian Waters is a fantastic work in progress.   It scans NSW crew and passenger lists based on the NSW State Archives holdings and NSW Archives are supportive of it.   I prefer it to the offering from Ancestry, and not just because mariners is available without subscription, but because the transcriptions are perhaps a tad more reliable.

https://marinersandships.com.au/

So, now for some adverse comments from me...  Ummm.... There’s a submitted tree on Ancestry which is suggesting that Marjorie's mum was a passenger returning to NSW in April 1921 (I remember she had married Cuthbert Alvin FISHER in India in 1919).    Anyway, it is a tad umm…. W R O N G …  only a tad wrong, but .. well you see, there’s no passengers on the image the tree owner has linked, afterall, it is actually a crew list, and having been a transcriber for the Mariners website, I would suggest the vessel was carrying an all male crew (the list has initials and surname which is usual for that era and no mention of any female crew members).  Anyways it is a handwritten list, submitted to Sydney Port Master when arriving into Sydney… and the Ancestry submitted tree owner has perhaps mis-read the surnames listed…

Because :  Well among the crew is A MICKLEJOHN  aged 34, of England, and they are crew, listed as AB  as in Able Seaman…   it is the vessel Kallatina into NSW April 1921.  Two pages of images…  it was a coastal trader, from Cairns (in Queensland) via Brisbane to Sydney, arriving 2 April 1921 

See the free available transcription and image attached. http://marinersandships.com.au/1921/04/media/010kal.jpg   NSW State Archives have the original records,  Reel 2115 at their Kingswood Reading rooms.

I have checked Trove, and Addie Leigh is found up to 1914 and then not until January 1923.  Addie Leigh is in 1923 described as the late prima donna of the Bandman Opera Company now on a visit to Australia.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223458499  The Sun 21 Jan 1923.


JM


Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 August 19 06:04 BST (UK)
Here's more info about Addie Leigh, who in Feb 1923 was on holiday in Sydney and had for seven years been Maurice Bandman's leading prima donna ... he was now dead so she was intending to start out on her own...

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/23637992    Mercury (in Hobart Tasmania) 7 Feb 1923.

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 August 19 07:28 BST (UK)
If you check out Marjorie Emma George and her mum Adeline on my public tree (Cranes and Simmonds Family Tree) you'll see I've already done most of this work.

Addie's Mum was Emma Hodge, and she goes back to a family in Faversham UK (where we lived from 1981-2002!). I have also her Muckleston line from her father Samuel.
She married Cuthbert Alvin (twice mis-spelt) Fisher twice - first in Bombay with the wrong family name while she was still technically married to Harold George; secondly with her correct name once the Decree Absolute had gone through. But she seems to have abandoned Cuthbert pretty early, possibly because of her concurrent long affair with Garnet Haughton who was named as co-respondent in her divorce from Harold.

By mid-1924 when Dad arrived Addie was running a theatrical boarding house as Addie Leigh or Addie Leigh Fisher - but no sign of the husband.
 
I have Mrs.Marjorie E Wallace on a ship going to Colombo in October 1933. She seems to have been Simmonds for a mere four months, not the seven I was led to believe. Hopefully Dad's memoir will clarify some of this when I get to the Interesting Bit!

I've trawled through many Marjorie Wallaces and their journeys but discounted them - a) too many b) husbands with them at wrong addresses and in the wrong job. The only appropriate Wallace I've found so far is a Mines Surveyor listed in the UK 1939 register, Archibald Ure Wallace. Married, but maybe playing away like Marjorie. She bewitched men.

Thanks for the Simmonds hints - I'm not sure if that's my family though - unless it's another of Gran's many siblings. I'll check.

Dad worked mainly as a semi-itinerant Jackaroo while he was out there from 1924-1931.

Pam

Sue posted on the tragic death of the co-respondent in the divorce of Marjorie's parents.  That co-resondent was serving in the AIF,  embarked in 1916,  serving overseas as a volunteer,   took his discharge in Sept 1919 in London ....  and then later he  returned to Australia, receiving disharge cert in Aust.  And his AIF papers are  available at the National Archives of Australia webste ....   I cannot see any opportunity for Addie to have been concurrently with her husband in India and with her  AIF chap in England and also in Sydney Australia in 1919 ...

Some things are just not possible.

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Wednesday 14 August 19 07:42 BST (UK)
Thanks for all this, JM! I'll check it out asap.
Meanwhile, Jm, Sue, Babs - I got to the interesting bit of Dad's memoir this morning. It's brief enough to post right here:

"It was while I was working in Kent that I learned from my mother that Addie’s daughter Marjorie had come to England and was staying with Uncle Frank and Auntie Vi at 129, Empress Avenue, Ilford (P: Yes!!!). Uncle Frank was Mother’s second eldest brother, and Autie Vi was the cousin of Addie Leigh who had been the means of my introduction to Marjorie on my arrival at Sydney.
I was very excited at the prospect of meeting again the girl I had fallen in love with seven years earlier and whom I had never expected to see again. I rang up my aunt and asked if I could call. The inevitable happened - I was back again deeply, madly in love with this beautiful creature.
Marjorie had come over to study at a well known theatrical dance tuition studio (P: the Imperial School of Teachers of Dancing, still going strong in 2019) and also to study singing. She had divorced her husband (P: not quite, Dad!) and was now following in the footsteps of her mother. She was very ambitious, but also very practical and was prepared to work hard at her chosen profession. She was extremely pretty - a true redhead, full of energy and very affectionate to those she liked. I spent every moment of my free time in her company; I used every argument in the book to convince her that she should marry me. And marry me she did; in a registry office, on June 1st 1933.
On the way back from the wedding I stopped the car outside the Times Furnishing showrooms in Oxford Street to arrange for the furniture to be delivered whilst we were away on honeymoon to the flat we had rented; but when we returned to the car, the two suitcases packed with all my wife’s belongings, including one very valuable piece of jewellery, had been stolen.
It was never recovered. Insurance paid about one-twentieth of the value.
The marriage was a disaster.
I could not give Marjorie any satisfaction. She was very over-sexed, and this acted on me like a deterrent, although I was otherwise quite normal. I became inhibited, and after seven months (P: maybe only four, Dad?) She went and bought a ticket to Cape Town, and left me. (P: No doubt to rejoin Mr. Wallace with his Rhodesian gold mine, whom she must already have met.)"

When she was at the Ilford address with my great-uncle she was *already listed as Mrs. Marjorie E Wallace.* The woman was totally irresponsible! How did Dad not know that? Why didn't anyone in the family realise what was going on? Baffling!
Pam
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Wednesday 14 August 19 07:50 BST (UK)
JM - you don't have to be living with someone to continue a long-term liaison; I speak from (in my case happy) experience! Addie's affair with Garnet, according to her published letter, had been going on for years before she actually left Harold. She probably kept him on an emotional string while she was touring India and fell in with Fisher. Both mother and daughter used men atrociously, sometimes with tragic consequences as we have seen.
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 August 19 08:45 BST (UK)
So Addie marries in Bombay in June 1919 husband no 2,  but  is back in Waverley with her first husband November 1919 and husband no.1 claims he has written proof when sueing for divorce showing Addie was involved in Nov 1919 with another man ...  who had served in the AIF ... and was shell shocked .... and had not left the UK until at least end of Sept 1919... 

I think the 1921 divorce may have used some contrived evidence ... it was not unusual for NSW divorces to require proof of 'criminal intercourse'  in that era ... there was a roaring trade in late  night photographers  supplying compromising bedroom photos.   A contrived series of letters was another option.   

The newspaper report names the ship Addie left on for India ... 

Cuthbert FISHER may have been playing the field .... a wife in Melbourne was looking for him ...  a jockey and horsetrainer....

High Society in the 1920s !

JM

ADD   Did Hal know Addie had married Cuthbert?  Did Hal know Cuthbert existed?  Hal could have cited  Cuthbert  but it would be far easier to cite a local chap and recover all legals locally. 
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 14 August 19 09:59 BST (UK)
Hi
What good news to find the address was connected.
I wonder if Edwin means it was 7 months of his renewed association with Marjorie rather than 7 months of marriage.

She sounds like a complete narcissist.

Sue
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: majm on Wednesday 14 August 19 11:06 BST (UK)
Yes,  the profile that's coming to the focus re Majorie is quite confronting .... I think it is possible she was known as Mrs Wallace before she met up with our OPs dad ....  I wonder if her funds to travel came from her Dad  ...

JM
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Wednesday 14 August 19 11:48 BST (UK)
What a family Dad got himself involved with! Poor Hal probably had no idea about Cuthbert the jockey (it was a whole extended family of jockeys) but we'll probably never know as everyone involved is long gone.

I'm sure Dad didn't know about Addie's colourful history; he was a complete innocent, having been brought up to the strictest of moral codes, believing the best of everyone, and a physically rather shy man always.

Whether or not your cynicism about the divorce process is justified (I know that stuff went on, in the UK as well), poor Garnet Haughton couldn't take it.

Pam
Title: Re: Owen Robert Colverd
Post by: PAFC on Wednesday 06 November 19 07:04 GMT (UK)
It's a while since I visited here; been bust transcribing Dad's memoir, which I intend to publish - it reads very well! Looking again at Marjorie and her extra-marital liaisons I thought I'd try once more to find the Jumbo Mine. This morning I had success, finding an account of it here: http://www.rhodesianstudycircle.org.uk/category/explore/mines/page/5/
... but it appears that the Jumbo Gold Mining Company was liquidated in 1932! I suspect that this failure may have prompted Marjorie's flight - again - from Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and she traded on the glamour of the story when she returned to Sydney. The mine is still going strong, now as the Mazowe Gold Mine (see: http://metcorp.co.uk/operations/gold-fields-of-mazowe-ltd.aspx ) so it must have just been the company that went haywire, as it was actually a good time for the South African mines (ref: https://opendocs.ids.ac.uk/opendocs/handle/20.500.12413/7033 ).  Pam