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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Arkwright on Thursday 08 August 19 18:22 BST (UK)

Title: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Thursday 08 August 19 18:22 BST (UK)
Hi All

I'm trying to trace the maiden name of a Mary Thompson born around 1840. In 1861 she was living in South Cockerington as a lodger. I have what I believe to be her daughters birth certificate which names her father as Joseph Thompson.

This is all I have to go on at the moment and was wondering if that's enough information to establish the marriage between Joseph and Mary, or alternatively could someone point this novice in the right direction  ;)

Many thanks in advance...
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 08 August 19 18:31 BST (UK)
If you have the daughter's birth certificate, surely it gives a maiden name for the mother?

Is this the 1861 you are considereing?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7HQ-W4D
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Thursday 08 August 19 19:00 BST (UK)
Sorry, I meant to say daughters MARRIAGE certificate.

Yes that's the 1861 I'm considering.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 08 August 19 19:25 BST (UK)
Okay, so when and where did this daughter wed,
How old was she?
What names witnessed?
What census relates to the daughter before/ after marriage?

Pauline
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Thursday 08 August 19 20:41 BST (UK)
Here's the information from her marriage certificate.

Married 17 Jun 1888 in the Free Methodist Chapel, Louth, Lincolnshire.

Husband: Thomas Abbott.

Residence at time of marriage: South Cockerington

Condition: Spinster.

Age: Looks like 22

Father: Joseph Thompson (farm labourer)

Witnesess Charles Dyas & Mary Ann Dyas
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: osprey on Thursday 08 August 19 21:11 BST (UK)
so daughter after marriage is this one?

1891 Back Lane, North Cockerington RG12/2610 folio 13 pg 5
Thomas Abbott head mar 23 ag lab b. Salt Fleet
Evangelina wife 28 b. South Cockerington
Thomas J son 2 b. North Cockerington
Betsey dau under 1 month b. North Cockerington
Betsey Fiddling 40 nurse b. North Cockerington

1901 census family, with more children, is in Grimsby RG13/3089 folio 32 pg 15
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: osprey on Thursday 08 August 19 21:14 BST (UK)
death reg Evangelina Abbott 65 sept qtr 1932 Grimsby vol 7a pg 577
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Thursday 08 August 19 21:41 BST (UK)
Yes, this is the correct daughter.

Will this help me find the mother's maiden name?
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: PaulineJ on Thursday 08 August 19 21:43 BST (UK)
Possibly.
The GRO index has mothers maiden names if the birth can be identified.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 08 August 19 22:34 BST (UK)
I wonder if she may be illegitimate (with made up father on birth cert). She's adopted by Joshua and Ann Winn (1871 listed as Eva Thompson, 1881 as Eva Winn)
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: bevo on Friday 09 August 19 06:43 BST (UK)

THOMPSON, EVANGELINE     
mother's Maiden name: HENDRY 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 09B  Page 515
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: amondg on Friday 09 August 19 07:31 BST (UK)
The Leeds child in previous post was buried 7 October 1869 age1.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: amondg on Friday 09 August 19 08:06 BST (UK)
Possibility
There is an Eve Thompson registered Lincoln Sept 1867 Vol. 7a page463 mmn Scott

ADDED
 Maybe not George Thompson married Martha Scott in Cockermouth 1866
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 09 August 19 08:46 BST (UK)

Ann born Fotherby ~ 1834 is connection?

Census 1861 at Nth Cockerington LINCS
SMITH George        34y    cottager 11 acres                      b. Sth Cockerington LINCS
SMITH Ann             27y    Primitive Methodist ***             b. Fotherby  LINCS
THOMPSON Mary    21y    lodger                                      b. Theddlethorpe LINCS


Census 1871 at South Cockerington LINCS
WINN Joshua          32y    cottager 14 acres                       b. Sth Cockerington LINCS
WINN Ann              37y                                                    b. Fotherby LINCS
THOMPSON Eva        9y    adopted                                     b. Sth Cockerington LINCS

Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: amondg on Friday 09 August 19 08:48 BST (UK)
Brilliant
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Friday 09 August 19 10:27 BST (UK)
I have a possible theory given to me by someone else regarding Evangelina which seems to fit but still struggling with my original question about the maiden name of Mary Thompson.

Also having trouble finding a birth record for Evangelina.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: bevo on Friday 09 August 19 16:08 BST (UK)

The 1861 census says she was unmarried.
The 1841 census has a Mary Ann Thompson born 1839 in Theddlethorpe with other Thompsons
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: osprey on Friday 09 August 19 21:10 BST (UK)
there's a burial in South Cockerington of a George Smith age 38 18 Sept 1864. Remarriage for Ann Smith june qtr 1865 Louth vol 7a pg 1247 with Joseph Winn on the same page. So the Ann from the 1861 & 1871 would appear to be the same person. I suspect she was Ann Dawson baptised in Fotherby 8 Dec 1833 daughter of Thomas & Jane and married George Smith dec qtr 1858 Louth vol 7a pg 1125.

It would appear Evangelina is illegitimate so Thompson is Mary Ann's surname, she was single in 1861 and Evangelina is enumerated as 9 in 1871 & 19 in 1881 so born within a few months of the census. No sign of a birth registration so far.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: Arkwright on Friday 09 August 19 21:52 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Osprey..

So do you think the father named Thompson on Evangelinas marriage certificate is a bit of a red herring?
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: osprey on Friday 09 August 19 22:14 BST (UK)
I suspect the name on the cert is a partial invention, possibly inspired by Josiah/Joseph Winn who she would have known as her father for most of her life.

The witnesses could be Charles Dyas and his wife Mary Ann (Handley) who married june qtr 1878 Louth vol 7a pg 1163 and who are living in South Cockerington in 1881.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 09 August 19 22:39 BST (UK)
Also having trouble finding a birth record for Evangelina.

There might be a chance that she was baptized at South Cockerington.
But none after 1812 seem to be online? Held at Lincolnshire Archives.

Joshua Winn left a will, proved in 1906
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=winn&yearOfDeath=1906&page=2#calendar

Looks to be dated around the time of his remarriage
https://www.lincstothepast.com/Will---Winn--Joshua--26-July-1893--------/764488.record?pt=S
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: amondg on Saturday 10 August 19 05:55 BST (UK)
Joseph Winn died 1868 age 33 registered in Louth.

An Ann Winn marries a Joshua Winn in Sculcoates  1869. Some distance but a possibilty

1841 census North Cockerington family of Pearcey (sic)and Ann Winn, Joseph was Joshua's older brother.

Having lived with the family from birth Ann Thompson would have known Joseph for only 3 years 1865-1868 but at a time she would remember names and at this point we don't know if she knew she was adopted, Joseph was a convenient name.
Title: Re: MARRIAGE - Joseph and Mary Thompson
Post by: osprey on Saturday 10 August 19 19:06 BST (UK)
 marriage to a dead husband's brother wasn't legal at that time which could explain marrying a distance away.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=536959.0

On the 1861 census, George Smith was a cottager and Primitive Methodist L(ay) Preacher. Evangelina married in a Methodist Chapel, so any baptism may have a Methodist one and may not be online.