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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: loobylooayr on Tuesday 06 August 19 23:11 BST (UK)
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Can't see a thread started yet for the Whitehalls episode.
So what did RC viewers think ?
I have to say , I didn't really enjoy this episode. Although the two main stories uncovered - great grandparents dying of syphilis and the Welsh solicitor/ Chartists - were interesting and moving, I think the Whitehalls' "humour" and reactions made me uncomfortable. I felt for one or two of the researchers/experts , who looked a bit uncomfortable too.
But it's always great to see the paper trail of documents and newspaper articles - a lot of hard work goes in to these shows.
Looby :)
PS. I have seen Jack Whitehall on TV but never seen his father before.
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Worst episode I ever seen :)
I will admit to having no idea who the two men were. I was particularly unimpressed by their behaviour throughout.
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The two Whitehall's grated throughout, and because of them I couldn't have cared less about the subjects being followed.
After a great first episode (Daniel Radcliffe) its gone rapidly downhill. Fingers crossed it redeems itself next week.
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Couldn't agree with you more!
I thought they were both quite disrespectful of the researchers/experts who were trying to tell their story!
Frankly they deserved the ancestors they had, particularly the Welsh chap and it just goes to show how behaviour/ attitudes have come down through their lines.
A proper pair of pompous idiots.... and what did the father think he looked like dressed up.... in a blue hat for heavens sake....
Think you get the drift not impressed... if this is the best they can drag up then don't bother.
Hope next ones better... stop researching actors and try some people of substance.
Caroline
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I agree with all the comments, despite the fact that some of the findings should have interested me, I fell asleep before the end, don't thing I'll bother cacthing up on the missed bit on Iplayer.
I really enjoyed Daniel Radcliffe on the first show, fingers crossed that the future shows are of the same calibre.
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So I wasn't alone in being unimpressed by this pair !
Some of the TV reviewers in the press are claiming this episode is the best ever :o and that viewers were "in stitches" at their comments.
Well, this viewer wasn't in stitches....
Hope the rest of the series is a huge improvement on this offering.
Looby :)
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I was underwhelmed . Jack Whitehall seems to have dragged his father into most of his TV appearances these days and it didn’t enhance this episode at all. Two privileged toffs, one whose outrage at his ‘Tory’ relative was grossly hypocritical, when clearly his background has given him the opportunities he has now. Jack Whitehall clearly preferred to have the poor syphilitic relatives to add colour to his story and fulfill his wish to have working class roots.
Interesting content ruined by crass comments from two crass overpaid ‘celebrities’.
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Although I agrees that the celebs were annoying (they often are, I try to tune them out) I found the second half very interesting.
The Newport Riots were the last occasion on which significant numbers of British citizens were killed and maimed by their own troops* - best estimate is that 22 died (Wikipedia), 20 years after Peterloo. It was also the last time anybody was sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered, though this was commuted to transportation for life. More people should know about this. It's a pity if the story got obscured by the celebs.
* depends what you mean by significant - 4 died in the Mold riots of 1869, doubtless there were other examples.
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Leaving the "Celebs" out of it.....
I lived in Newport for some years, they are very proud of John Frost and had the town square named after him, though I am not sure if it still exists due to major renovation works.
There was a marvellous huge art work there depicting the Chartist struggle which was destroyed :'( during the re-building works. (Google Images to see them.)
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The subject matter was interesting, but the pair of them (who on earth are they?) didn't seem at all engaged. Is Whitehall senior normally like that or was it just an act? Why did they have to be pictured pushing their way along a school corridor full of screaming girls? Were their comments supposed to be funny?
Some of the TV reviewers in the press are claiming this episode is the best ever :o and that viewers were "in stitches" at their comments.
Yes, but that was the Daily Mail :-X
Sometimes I'm able to blank out the participants if the subject matter really engages me, but in the case of this pair I really found it impossible.
For me the best episode of the three shown so far, definitely Daniel Radcliffe.
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photo of mural from Google Images
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Thanks for that, mowsehouse.
It was ridiculous that the mural was destroyed, but the artist's son has been commissioned to create a replica (though three miles away and at quarter-scale.)
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I wonder who thought it was a good idea to have "two for the price of one". ……. ::)
The history was interesting but as for those two...……..
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Yes, part of the problem was that they mostly interacted with each other rather than with the experts. I think this would be a problem whoever the two people were. I hope they don't repeat that, luckily there are few such celeb pairs like that, at least that I can think of.
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I had the same reaction. I got rid of the TV c1995 but picked up one extract from You Tube yesterday, probably pirated. I have no idea who they are either.
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I quite enjoyed it .....
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I really liked it. :)
Thought it would have been interesting to look into where all the £££ went that REB inherited ;), but then the story went to Newport and the Chartists.
Of this series I intended to watch this one and Paul Merton.
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It became clear to me, very early on, that the pair knew what they were going to find.
Jack, "Great granddad was a bit of a shagger!"
Two scenes later, "He died of syphilis, See I was right!"
Whitehall senior was obviously dressing up for the cameras - who packs 3 fedoras (blue, brown and tan) for a week away in Wales? And how many topcoats does the man own?
I did not like Jack looking into the camera and rolling his eyes, as if we were part of the joke. All in all, I thought that the show was just an extension of the pair's TV career.
Regards
Chas
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Thanks for that, mowsehouse.
It was ridiculous that the mural was destroyed, but the artist's son has been commissioned to create a replica (though three miles away and at quarter-scale.)
It was a crying shame for sure..... I suppose it was just prohibitively expensive to try and save it! :'(
Exactly where will the replica be please?
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This is the first episode I have turned off, I managed about 15 minutes.....what a dreadful pair ::)
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"Rogerstone" was all I could find.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/newport-chartist-rising-mural-rogerstone-16063905
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Looking at all these comments ..... it's a pity we can't let the BBC have a sighting so they can see what the thoughts of proper researchers feel...
It's hard to believe that they can't see that this just isn't good TV, although the actual stories, social, historical content is educating the nation.....!! They could almost make it without the celebs....
I like the history of the house done by ?????? Can't remember his name but much more interesting than some of this tripe the dish up to us.
Scraping the barrel I feel now...
Caroline
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It's been said before (can't recall thread) but the Beeb is trying to attract those viewers who are interested in family history, and those who are interested in the celebs. I think the consensus was that the latter (nothing against them!) outnumber us, so we get what they might like.
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I like the history of the house done by ?????? Can't remember his name but much more interesting than some of this tripe the dish up to us.
Scraping the barrel I feel now...
Caroline
The house history programmes were by David Olusoga…...and I think there are more planned. :)
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Looking at all these comments ..... it's a pity we can't let the BBC have a sighting so they can see what the thoughts of proper researchers feel...
As has been said before they are not making a Genealogy Research programme they are making an "entertainment" piece which uses genealogy as a background
It's hard to believe that they can't see that this just isn't good TV, although the actual stories, social, historical content is educating the nation.....!! They could almost make it without the celebs....
They have tried this in the past and in general viewing figures were abysmal
Scraping the barrel I feel now...
Caroline
I would agree although I strongly suspect that they are well past the bottom of the barrel by now
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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, but then I am aware of both Jack and Micheal Whitehall and how they are together, so wasn't bothered at all by the double act or the glances to camera. I didn't think the researchers were uncomfortable - or at least, no more uncomfortable than they were being filmed in the first place. Jack Whitehall also makes no secret of his privilege.
I'm not sure if I would be counted as a "proper researcher" but I thought the information was presented well, and that their reactions to the diagnosis of syphilis and asylum admission were a surprise and not what they were expecting at all. And I liked the bit where they went through the school corridor! I can imagine what my school would have been like had something like that happened while I was there. Chaos springs to mind.
I also wouldn't put Daniel Radcliffe or Naomie Harris at the bottom of the barrel either - like all 'celebrity', there will be ones which are unknown to a lot of people. Who had heard of Joe Suggs, for example, before he was on Strictly Come Dancing unless they know people who watch him on YouTube? He has millions of subscribers, so does indeed count as a celebrity, as do Jack and Michael Whitehall despite people's dislike of them.
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Thanks nanny jan... I knew it was a name I should remember... they certainly were more planned!
Falkyrn - you are right they've gone beyond the bottom of the barrel!
The trouble is that it all makes genealogy research look so simple.... when we all know it's anything buy... if only we all had a researcher behind us providing us with all the documents.... although I do enjoy it when I come across something unexpected myself.
Let's hope the next people show more actual interest rather than acted interest.... some of them I've not heard of either but I'll reserve judgment till I've viewed them!
Caroline
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I was quite interested in the actual content of this episode from a historical point of view but I agree that the two 'subjects' were a bit of a pain!
I knew who Jack Whitehall is - I suppose he can't help having a privileged background but why does he have to feign empathy with the working classes like so many of his ilk? Plus, I can't stand that kind of 'overgrown schoolboy' humour which seems to be prevalent at the moment.
As for his father - I really couldn't understand why he was there. Is he supposed to be a 'celebrity'? It seems really easy to acquire 'celebritydom' nowadays - I might go for it myself and see if the WDYTYA people will do me!! Celebrity? I saw the line up for this year's Strictly the other day - apart from Anneka Rice (showing my age) and James Cracknell, my thoughts were a resounding WHO? I shan't be watching it anyway - like most tv offerings, its past its sell by date and should be wound up as its become so predictable. A bit like WDYTYA, I'm afraid - look how long it took someone to start a thread on here for this latest episode. I remember when we were all avidly waiting for each new episode. I'm hoping they might take the obvious popularity of genealogy and come up with a different variation on a theme!
I'm really looking forward to the Paul Merton episode - now, there's a truly witty man. I wonder if he'll be accompanied by his Great Aunt Mabel? ;D
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Let's hope the next people show more actual interest rather than acted interest....
Caroline
Extremely well put.
I liked the Daniel Radcliffe episode and thought it boded well for the forthcoming series - I missed the 2nd episode but in this 3rd episode I was put off within minutes by their "double act" which they unfortunately continued throughout the show. To my mind they did not come across as interested in the information being part of their history but more as a foil to make a few wisecracks and digs in the continuation of the format of their "comedy" show.
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The Newport Riots were the last occasion on which significant numbers of British citizens were killed and maimed by their own troops* - best estimate is that 22 died (Wikipedia), 20 years after Peterloo. It was also the last time anybody was sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered, though this was commuted to transportation for life. More people should know about this. It's a pity if the story got obscured by the celebs.
* depends what you mean by significant - 4 died in the Mold riots of 1869, doubtless there were other examples.
4 killed at Preston in 1842. Plug Riots and Chartism. Preston had a wide franchise prior to the 1832 Reform Act so didn't benefit from the reform. Henry Hunt, the speaker at Peterloo was M.P. for Preston 1830-1833. One of my 3xGGFs in Preston was a Chartist and trades unionist. The shooting happened in the street where a doctor who was brother-in-law of another of my 3xGGFs lived.
https://wiki2.org/en/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://www.secret-bases.co.uk/wiki/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://historicaltrinkets.blogspot.com/2011/10/riot-act-violence-and-bloodshed-on.html
*It also depends on what you mean by "British citizens".
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I liked this episode - but I think jack Whitehall is amusing anyway. Actually so far I’ve liked 2 outta 3 this series with the Daniel Ratcliffe one being a very good episode.
Lisa
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4 killed at Preston in 1842. Plug Riots and Chartism. Preston had a wide franchise prior to the 1832 Reform Act so didn't benefit from the reform. Henry Hunt, the speaker at Peterloo was M.P. for Preston 1830-1833. One of my 3xGGFs in Preston was a Chartist and trades unionist. The shooting happened in the street where a doctor who was brother-in-law of another of my 3xGGFs lived.
https://wiki2.org/en/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://www.secret-bases.co.uk/wiki/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://historicaltrinkets.blogspot.com/2011/10/riot-act-violence-and-bloodshed-on.html
*It also depends on what you mean by "British citizens".
Thanks for that. I wondered if there were any such fatal events later than the Mold riots of 1869 - that is, when civilians (scrub "British Citizens" which seems ambiguous) were fired on by soldiers or police. (I know there have been C20th and C21st incidents when people tragically died, but they were isolated incidents mostly not involving state forces. I presume the Metropolitan Police did not intend to kill Blair Peach). Nobody died at Tonypandy or Cable Street AFAICS. Google has not been my friend on this.
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Well, there are quite a few posho and not so posh celebrity father and son double acts. I don’t think we can blame the Whitehalls for accepting a generally accepted format! I thought this was quite good if containing a few unpleasant truths (then again, so did half of the Daniel Radcliffe programme, tho’ if his ancestor was innocent or doing something all his trade were doing, it reflected more badly on the Met and insurance companies than on his ancestor!). I think a few lines could have been put in to explain the status of a grocer and a constable. Also - but perhaps a bit too much given the limited time available - not all women with syphillilytic husbands who were put away were necessarily syphillitic but the shame brought upon the family by the husband was enough to have them put away. Sometimes the women had a number of uninfected children which could bring the diagnosis, incarceration and, worst of all, prescribing of drugs into question. Medical confidentiality otoh was established after the First World War when medics kept diagnoses of VD of returning soldiers and sailors secret from the wives with sad consequences.
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The Newport Riots were the last occasion on which significant numbers of British citizens were killed and maimed by their own troops* - best estimate is that 22 died (Wikipedia), 20 years after Peterloo. It was also the last time anybody was sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered, though this was commuted to transportation for life. More people should know about this. It's a pity if the story got obscured by the celebs.
* depends what you mean by significant - 4 died in the Mold riots of 1869, doubtless there were other examples.
4 killed at Preston in 1842. Plug Riots and Chartism. Preston had a wide franchise prior to the 1832 Reform Act so didn't benefit from the reform. Henry Hunt, the speaker at Peterloo was M.P. for Preston 1830-1833. One of my 3xGGFs in Preston was a Chartist and trades unionist. The shooting happened in the street where a doctor who was brother-in-law of another of my 3xGGFs lived.
https://wiki2.org/en/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://www.secret-bases.co.uk/wiki/Preston_Strike_of_1842
https://historicaltrinkets.blogspot.com/2011/10/riot-act-violence-and-bloodshed-on.html
*It also depends on what you mean by "British citizens".
Yes the 1842 General Strike (AKA Plug Riots) included 6 dead at Halifax, as well as the deaths at Preston
The Reform Bill Riots (Great Reform Act 1832) also saw widespread rioting and numbers of dead
I really despair at WDYYYA history research. Last week we had shock horror at 1830's indenture in Jamaica, as if this wasn't already widespread in England at the time. The Huskar Pit disaster happened 9 years after slavery had been abolished in the BWI, but WDYTYA wouldn't dream of covering something like English coal miners (see the scrapped Michael Parkinson episode)
As a side note. Bradford Chartists were supposed to join the Newport rebellion. Long story why it failed but interesting
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I actually enjoyed the Michael's reaction to their ant-chartist ancestor's behaviour rather disturbing. Especially the suggestion that it is a good thing to stop others voting. I think it is so disturbing because I have heard it with increasing frequency from the richer and more powerful people that people like me shouldn't be allowed to vote.
One of my cousins is appearing on Strictly this year. I am both looking forward to see if he has the 'family dancing gene' (my parents were professional dancers) and nervous about it in case it is cringeworthy. What I really need them to do is WDYTA on the condition thy research the line with the brick wall and then send me copies of the stuff the researchers find. :P
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I actually enjoyed the Michael's reaction to their ant-chartist ancestor's behaviour rather disturbing. Especially the suggestion that it is a good thing to stop others voting. I think it is so disturbing because I have heard it with increasing frequency from the richer and more powerful people that people like me shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Yes, I agree - apparently we're all morons and unable to grasp the truth! Funny how these people always start their comments with "of course, I agree we should honour the people's decision BUT..." I've come to the conclusion that most of these intellectual giants genuinely think they are right - mostly because they exist in the little world of self smuggery which is metropolitan London and not in the real world that the majority of the rest of us inhabit . I agree with you, pharmaT, its frightening and disturbing.
One of my cousins is appearing on Strictly this year. I am both looking forward to see if he has the 'family dancing gene' (my parents were professional dancers) and nervous about it in case it is cringeworthy. What I really need them to do is WDYTA on the condition thy research the line with the brick wall and then send me copies of the stuff the researchers find. :P
Wouldn't we all?!! I'd be spoilt for choice as to which brickwall to get them to tackle!!
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We both liked this episode. I always watch all of them, some are better balanced than others, the one last week being one sided.
The history of the Chartists was covered in a documentary by Michael Sheen, I would like to see him appear WDYTYA.
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Vaguely knew that the younger man was some sort of comedy act, not sure how the rather crass father fitted in. Agree too much mugging together, not enough respect for the hard work that the "real" researchers had put in to give those two unappealing men the limelight...
..Guess what?: No, didn't enjoy them, largely because THEY hogged the limelight - could've been interesting if it'd been more sympathetically done.
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I hadn't heard of either of the two men - and don't want to hear of them again!
I found them so irritating that I couldn't concentrate on the results of the research.
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Michael Sheen, I would like to see him appear WDYTYA.
Michael's ancestry was covered by "Coming Home" a much more polished show for the family historian.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w5bp1
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I watched it last night and enjoyed it - both for the interesting stories that emerged and the interplay between the Whitehalls. As well as the joking, they were genuinely interested in the family stories.
Luckily, we don't all share the same sense of humour.
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Michael Sheen, I would like to see him appear WDYTYA.
Michael's ancestry was covered by "Coming Home" a much more polished show for the family historian.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w5bp1
No longer available at the BBC site, but I found it on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSqs5E2QKR0
(Not watched it yet)
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Very interesting. Michael was genuinely interested and they seemed to pack as much into half an hour as WDYTYA does into an hour. Lower budget (no trip to New York) didn't matter.
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I have just caught up with this episode. Leaving aside the "entertainment" the Whitehall's laid on and much discussed by others I did enjoy this episode when it got to John Frost and the Newport Riots. He was an interesting chap and would be a good subject for a WDYTYA himself (via one of his descendants of course).
What puzzled me, and someone may be able to shed light on it is that the Whitehall's ancestor Thomas Jones Phillips was said in the programme to die in 1843. Wikipedia identify the correct Thomas Jones Phillips in its article on John Frost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frost_(Chartist)
but then links to a Sir Thomas Phillips who dies in 1867, yet they attribute to him some of the actions of Thomas Jones Phillips including the arrest of John Frost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Phillips_(mayor)
So is this a case of two people with similar names getting confused or is there only one person and some of the details in the programme are wrong? (yes there is a death in 1843 for Thomas Jones Phillips)
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I think this is a Wikipedia mistake. FreeBMD and GRO confirm that Thomas Jones Phillips died in Newport district in 1843 aged 53 - the other two deaths are at 28 (Lymington) and 2 (Carmarthen) so can't be him. The Thomas Philiips 1801-67 would be surely to young to have reached an important positions such as magistrate and mayor before 1839?
I think the events ascribed to Thomas Phillips before about 1842 can be ascribed to Jones Phillips, but that the events after his being "called to the bar" in 1842 - rather late in life, cetrainly for the Newpoer mayor - belong to the life of a different Thomas Phillips.
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Thank you, yes that makes sense.
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Going way off topic here, but this later Thomas Phillips employed Richard Dadd, the artist who later stabbed his father to death, and painted the picture that turned up on the Antiques Roadshow in Barnstaple, and sold for a tidy sum?
Or not, if the rest of the article is dubious.
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Michael's ancestry was covered by "Coming Home" a much more polished show for the family historian.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w5bp1
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I think it must have been before we came to live in Wales ! I really enjoyed the series we did see; we could have another one !
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Michael's ancestry was covered by "Coming Home" a much more polished show for the family historian.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w5bp1
I think it must have been before we came to live in Wales ! I really enjoyed the series we did see; we could have another one !
I`ve got the quotes wrong !!
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I think this is a Wikipedia mistake. FreeBMD and GRO confirm that Thomas Jones Phillips died in Newport district in 1843 aged 53 - the other two deaths are at 28 (Lymington) and 2 (Carmarthen) so can't be him. The Thomas Philiips 1801-67 would be surely to young to have reached an important positions such as magistrate and mayor before 1839?
I think the events ascribed to Thomas Phillips before about 1842 can be ascribed to Jones Phillips, but that the events after his being "called to the bar" in 1842 - rather late in life, cetrainly for the Newpoer mayor - belong to the life of a different Thomas Phillips.
'Reliable' Wikipedia :o - I would agree that they have merged two different men into one.
The Wiki entry reads that Thomas Phillips died unmarried - which was not the case for the Thomas Jones Phillips ancestor of the Whitehalls.
Looby :)
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That just reminded me: I lent a book on Richard Dadd to a friend 4 whole years ago, and haven't got it back - yet! 'Phone call in order!
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Again, having spent most of my adult life in Canada, I was completely unaware of who these two were. However, I share the somewhat minority view that they were funny, and I enjoyed the episode for that aspect and for the Chartist history (esp. as I have Welsh family / ancestors too).
My 2 cents!
Ms_C
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Yes, the Chartist / John Frost bit was very interesting.
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I think this is a Wikipedia mistake. FreeBMD and GRO confirm that Thomas Jones Phillips died in Newport district in 1843 aged 53 - the other two deaths are at 28 (Lymington) and 2 (Carmarthen) so can't be him. The Thomas Philiips 1801-67 would be surely to young to have reached an important positions such as magistrate and mayor before 1839?
I think the events ascribed to Thomas Phillips before about 1842 can be ascribed to Jones Phillips, but that the events after his being "called to the bar" in 1842 - rather late in life, cetrainly for the Newpoer mayor - belong to the life of a different Thomas Phillips.
You are quite right, a mistake has been made. There is currently a team working on rectifying it. They have so far identified two "Thomas Phillips", but there is the possibility of a third. With, or without, the "Jones".
Up until Monday evening nobody knew of a possible conflict - now they do. Once it is sorted, alterations will be made. The pity is that information will be removed if it cannot be positively attributed to one man or the other.
Regards
Chas
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Well I thoroughly enjoyed it including the interaction/comments from the Whitehalls. But then I have a very dry (at times sarcastic) sense of humour. I knew who Jack Whitehall was but have only seen him guest on some other shows, never seen the double act with his father. As Mike says they were genuinely interested in the stories and lets face it some of the researchers were in stitches at the comments they made, you could see it from the looks on their faces.
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I haven't seen this programme, but will look forward to watching it in due course. I know of Jack Whitehall and his father from the series 'Travels with my Father' (available on Netflix), which I thought was hilarious. I too enjoy their dry senses of humour, and the way they bait each other all the time, so I'm looking forward to seeing this particular episode - if it ever becomes available on catch-up. I'm one of those people who no longer watch live TV, and my temper is much improved because of it. ;D
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I agree 'Travels with my Father' was a hoot! So funny.... (2nd travel programme they did was not quite so funny) However, I think the pair carried over their 'schtick' into their WDTYYA programme. It didn't bother me and I enjoyed the programme, but they didn't come across as natural in their reactions to what was being presented to them. Someone made the comment that Michael had done another programme and therefore knew the about the Welsh Chartist connection before so in that respect it was odd he was presented with this aspect of his family history again.
CD
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I too enjoy their dry senses of humour, and the way they bait each other all the time,
At the beginning of the programme, Jack said that he was hoping they could prove that there was no genetic link between him and his father.
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lets face it some of the researchers were in stitches at the comments they made, you could see it from the looks on their faces.
I thought they were cringing :-X ;D I certainly was!
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At the beginning of the programme, Jack said that he was hoping they could prove that there was no genetic link between him and his father.
That is just typical, and why I love their humour. Having seen this thread, I am now re-watching 'Travels with my Father'. So funny!
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They are totally hilarious.
Such dry humour, and I think they must enjoy a great relationship. ;) ;D
I should hasten to add, the story about the Chartists is, of course, horrendous.