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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: chrislb on Monday 05 August 19 05:28 BST (UK)

Title: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Monday 05 August 19 05:28 BST (UK)
Hi folks,

I am trying to find travel records for a couple (Andrew and Margaret Nelson) of people who went from Scotland to Canada (Newfoundland) sometime between 1937 and 1945. Ancestry.com, while a wonderful repository of records, doesn't seem to be helpful in this case. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions of where I could find this information??

Cheers!

Chris in Aus
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: rosie17 on Monday 05 August 19 06:00 BST (UK)
Hi Chris do you have dates of births for these people ? I seen this record for a Andrew and Margaret Nelson but not sure of their ages so might not be who you as looking for

Andrew Nelson age 58 occupation cutter
Margt Nelson age 49

Address came from 177,Wellshott Road Parkhead Glasgow
Departure Glasgow 19 August 1938
Arrival Port Quebec Montreal Canada
Ship Letitia

Rosie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 00:32 BST (UK)
Hi Rosie,

Firstly I realised after your reply that it was James Andrew Nelson and wife Margaret. Apologies for mis-information.

Secondly, they were born in 1906 and 1909 respectively. Married in Scotland in 1937. Emigrated to Scotland sometime between then and 1940 as on the Canada 1945 census they are in Newfoundland with their Canada born son, William, who was born in about 1940.

James was from Angus and he and Margaret were married in Newington, Midlothian, Edinburgh.

I have been unable to find a birth record for their son either.

Also looking for records for when they returned to England as I have them in Ealing in 1950.

Thanks for your help and suggestion.

Cheers,

Chris in Aus

Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:01 BST (UK)
Is this the marriage?

NELSON JAMES ANDREW
BURNETT MARGARET FRASER
1937
685/6 45 Newington

I'm confused with where they emigrated to/from?

If James Andrew was born in Scotland surely he wouldn't emigrate to Scotland i.e. was it Margaret who emigrated to Scotland, was she born in Canada or elsewhere?

Annie

Edited above to include James as forename.
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:08 BST (UK)
was he an accountant?

FindMyPast has James A Nelson and Margaret F Nelson  age 31 & 28
last address 38 Hampden Road, Beckenham, Kent

to St John's NF, left UK 17 Feb 1938   
Ship "Nova Scotia"


in Pencil is written BMA  or BNA  - not sure what this signifies
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:11 BST (UK)
Is this the marriage?

NELSON JAMES ANDREW
BURNETT MARGARET FRASER
1937
685/6 45 Newington

I'm confused with where they emigrated to/from?

If Andrew was born in Scotland surely he wouldn't emigrate to Scotland i.e. was it Margaret who emigrated to Scotland, was she born in Canada or elsewhere?

Annie

Hi Annie,

They both were born in Scotland and went from Scotland to Canada and then back to England.

Chris
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: barryd on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:13 BST (UK)
………........................….sometime between then and 1940 as on the Canada 1945 census they are in Newfoundland with their Canada born son, William, who was born in about 1940.

Emigrating to Canada before 3 September 1939 I have no issue with. After that war time shipping would possibly not allow immigrants?

Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:14 BST (UK)
was he an accountant?

FindMyPast has James A Nelson and Margaret F Nelson  age 31 & 28
last address 38 Hampden Road, Beckenham, Kent

to St John's NF, left UK 17 Feb 1938   
Ship "Nova Scotia"


in Pencil is written BMA  or BNA  - not sure what this signifies

Thanks, this could be them. Not sure about him being an accountant, but could have been. The 1945 Canada census has his occupation as 'Merchant'.
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 01:15 BST (UK)
………........................….sometime between then and 1940 as on the Canada 1945 census they are in Newfoundland with their Canada born son, William, who was born in about 1940.

Emigrating to Canada before 3 September 1939 I have no issue with. After that war time shipping would possibly not allow immigrants?

seems a reasonable assumption :)
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 06 August 19 09:59 BST (UK)
was he an accountant?

FindMyPast has James A Nelson and Margaret F Nelson  age 31 & 28
last address 38 Hampden Road, Beckenham, Kent

to St John's NF, left UK 17 Feb 1938   
Ship "Nova Scotia"


in Pencil is written BMA  or BNA  - not sure what this signifies

That seems to be the only record I can find also  ???

Rosie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 06 August 19 11:11 BST (UK)
Don't see either of those abbreviations listed  ???

Terminology and Abbreviations for passenger lists..............

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/Pages/terminology-abbreviations.aspx

Sandra
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 06 August 19 11:47 BST (UK)
If BNA, it could possibly be British North America but not sure if Canada was classified as that by then.

It's written in the Country of last permanent residence. It's also written against the totals column, Where 4 is England, 2 is Scotland and 2 is other parts of the British Empire

Added - they are both tallied in the Scotland column.
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 06 August 19 12:09 BST (UK)
Looks like you failed to mention son William had a middle name too.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK9Z-LNX4

It's important to include all known info. which could help others to help you as those little added/extra details can be what helps identifying people...

James Andrew Nelson b c1906 in possibly Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
Margaret Fraser (m/s Burnett) Nelson b c1909 in possibly Arbroath, Angus, Scotland
Andrew David Nelson c1940 St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada

was he an accountant?

FindMyPast has James A Nelson and Margaret F Nelson  age 31 & 28
last address 38 Hampden Road, Beckenham, Kent

to St John's NF, left UK 17 Feb 1938   
Ship "Nova Scotia"

This was soon after their marriage, what was the occ. of James A on his marriage?

Annie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 12:24 BST (UK)
Looks like you failed to mention son William had a middle name too.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK9Z-LNX4

It's important to include all known info. which could help others to help you as those little added/extra details can be what helps identifying people...

James Andrew Nelson b c1906 in possibly Kirriemuir, Angus, Scotland
Margaret Fraser (m/s Burnett) Nelson b c1909 in possibly Arbroath, Angus, Scotland
Andrew David Nelson c1940 St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada

was he an accountant?

FindMyPast has James A Nelson and Margaret F Nelson  age 31 & 28
last address 38 Hampden Road, Beckenham, Kent

to St John's NF, left UK 17 Feb 1938   
Ship "Nova Scotia"

This was soon after their marriage, what was the occ. of James A on his marriage?

Annie


Ah, yes, Williams middle name is David...

lol, glad you mentioned the marriage as I have a copy of the marriage entry and indeed James (Margaret as well) was a 'Certified Accountant', not only that, but although he and Margaret were married in Newington, Edinburgh where she lived, presumably with her family, he at the time lived in Hampstead, London.

Thanks for the help.

So it looks like that Find My Past record for the "Nova Scotia" is the one.

Now I just need to find them coming back to the UK

Thanks!!
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 06 August 19 12:37 BST (UK)
The immigration record leaving the UK is also on Ancestry still looking for them returning  ::)

Rosie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 12:39 BST (UK)
The immigration record leaving the UK is also on Ancestry still looking for them returning  ::)

Rosie

I have been searching ancestry but have found nothing.... sigh
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Tuesday 06 August 19 12:46 BST (UK)
found the 1938 'Nova Scotia' record :)
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 06 August 19 13:14 BST (UK)
"glad you mentioned the marriage"
"although he and Margaret were married in Newington, Edinburgh where she lived, presumably with her family"

All extra info. is very helpful for cross referencing especially middle names/initials, maiden surnames, occupations, addresses, witnesses etc.

It may be possible to find out through the VRs who Margaret was living with if you provide the address at the time of marriage?

I'm assuming you haven't found their deaths to date?

What were the names of their parents, with mothers' maiden names?

If they moved back to Scotland & died here, after 1973 their mms will show on the index if it was known to the informant?

Annie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 August 19 13:46 BST (UK)
Possible deaths

James Andrew Nelson b 6 Dec 1906 died Dec q 1993 Surrey Mid Eastern

Margaret Fraser Nelson b 3 Dec 1909 died Jan q 1994 Surrey Mid Eastern

Both appear to have left a will;

James Andrew Nelson of Milner House Ermyn Way Leatherhead Surrey Died 23 Nov 1993. Probate Ipswich 17 January 1994.

Margaret Fraser Nelson of Milner House Ermyn Way Leatherhead Surrey Died 8 Jan 1994 Probate Ipswich 9 May

No idea why probate was Ipswich but worth pointing out that the cost of wills from Findawill has recently been reduced  to £1.50.

William
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: rosie17 on Tuesday 06 August 19 13:49 BST (UK)
Beat  me to it William  ;D ;D

Rosie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: polarbear on Tuesday 06 August 19 14:06 BST (UK)
BNA....

I believe it would be British North America. Newfoundland was not yet part of Canada at that time. I think someone has just tallied up the numbers for passengers who are planning to stay in Newfoundland permanently (last column, 4 passengers) and just happened to put the 4 under the Scotland column.

1945 census....

The occupation column seems to be a bit mixed up. If you scroll very carefully across the lines you should find that merchant is on the line for the the gent above James. For James it has housewife, Margaret student, and William maid.

PB
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 August 19 14:52 BST (UK)
For background

Marriage Notice in the Dundee Courier 30 March 1937

Nelson - Burnet

At Craigmillar Park Church,Edinburgh on 27th March by the Rev Millar Patrick DD, assisted by the Rev David Nelson (father of the bridegroom) and the Rev W. J. Sym M.B.E B.D., James Andrew,only sonof the Rev David and Mrs Nelson, The Manse, Aberlemno, Forfar, to Margaret Fraser, daughter of Mr and Mrs David L Burnett,16 Liberton Drive,Edinburgh.

There are also articles about their engagement, a wedding photograph in the Dundee Courier 29 March 1837 and an article about the marriage also 29 March 1937.


Also a number of articles about Rev David Nelson's retirement in 1954.The Dundee Courier 22nd Feb states he "...is to live in his native Edinburgh, where his daughter is married to a member of the legal profession. His son is with a chemical firm in England".

William
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 06 August 19 15:21 BST (UK)
"James Andrew,only sonof the Rev David and Mrs Nelson, The Manse, Aberlemno, Forfar"

Which would tie in with the 1911 NELSON family

David 38
Netta 34
James Andrew 4
Margaret C 2

269/ 5/ 3 Aberlemno, Angus

Annie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 06 August 19 15:34 BST (UK)
Modified the years, Annie, to 1937 and 1954. (Think it is because I spend so much time in the 19th century that I was on automatic pilot  :)).

William
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 06 August 19 15:58 BST (UK)
Thanks William  ;)...

When I read your post with 1837 I wondered why I was looking at a 1911 census index & had to read back  ;D

A bit more which may be of interest;

"Brechin Advertiser Angus, Scotland
8 Jun 1937

JUNE BRIDALS Wedding in Aberlemno Church The wedding of Miss Margaret Catherine Nelson, only daughter of Rev. David and Mrs Nelson, the Manse, Aberlemno, took place on Friday afternoon in her father’s church, Aberlemno Parish Church, Mr Andrew Carmichael Bennett, elder son Mr and Mrs A. C. Bennett, 193 Mayfield Road, Edinburgh. The bride’s father and Revs. J. Stewart Robertson"

NELSON MARGARET CATHER
BENNETT ANDREW CARMICHA
1937 269/ 4 Aberlemno

Annie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Wednesday 07 August 19 01:58 BST (UK)
William, thanks, those would be the correct death records for James and Margaret. The Ipswich Probate bit is a mystery. I have noticed with several other family members (unrelated) that live in Sussex and the Probate is in Wales!! I've always though it odd.

Those of you who found the newspaper references, wow, thanks so much that is just icing on the cake :)

Thanks, Annie, for the 1911 census detail, I hadn't found that yet, but they are indeed the right ones.

Now for the return to England..

Um, someone  mentioned that Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada in 1938? Is that correct? It never occurred to me... not that it's relevant I guess, but an interesting fact none-the-less.

Cheers!!

Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: chrislb on Wednesday 07 August 19 02:07 BST (UK)
"James Andrew,only sonof the Rev David and Mrs Nelson, The Manse, Aberlemno, Forfar"

Which would tie in with the 1911 NELSON family

David 38
Netta 34
James Andrew 4
Margaret C 2

269/ 5/ 3 Aberlemno, Angus

Annie

Interestingly, although Netta is 'Netta' on this and several other records, her name was actually Janet Mcara, maiden name 'Peat'.
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 07 August 19 09:04 BST (UK)
Searched through pages of incoming records and not seeing anything  ???

Rosie
Title: Re: Travel to and from Canada
Post by: Rosinish on Wednesday 07 August 19 11:18 BST (UK)
"someone  mentioned that Newfoundland wasn't part of Canada in 1938? Is that correct? It never occurred to me... not that it's relevant I guess, but an interesting fact none-the-less"

But it is/was relevant as it has answered the question as to what BNA could mean.

Annie