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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: M_ONeill on Sunday 28 July 19 14:33 BST (UK)
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Hey all, I'm wondering if anyone can help me track down a birth record for my 2x great grandfather Michael McChrystal.
The earliest record I have of him is in the 1871 England census (born c.1857) return for Heath Charnock, Lancashire, where he's listed as living with his parents, Michael (b. c.1820) and Susan McChrystal (b. c.1826), as well as his brothers Arthur (b. c.1859) and John (b. c.1861).
The whole family is listed as being born in Ireland, and they seem to return there sometime prior to 1885 when Arthur marries an Ellen Henry in Keenaght, Desertmartin, they later return to England, living in various places but eventually settling in Wigan. Michael the Younger marries for the first time with an Ellen Carmichael in 1896 in Lavey, also Desertmartin, and marries again in 1905 to an Isabella Walls. John may marry a Jane Boyle in Belfast in 1899 and also return to England, but I'm not 100% sure on that one.
Following Arthur's family through the census gets me to the 1911 census, where he is listed as having been born in Lisbellaw, Fermanagh. I've done a search of the Irish Catholic Registers and the only two children of a Michael and Susan McChrystal (I think the surname is Owens) I can find is a Cath McChrystal in 1854 and an unknown McChrystal (1853 first name lost to damage), both in Tempo Fermanagh. I can't find a marriage for Michael and Susan, nor any other children.
At the moment it seems to be a brick wall, does anyone have any ideas?
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816316.msg6778222#msg6778222
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you need to search for bmds on https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ bothe church and state
I started with 1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books based upon the index work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’ see http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/desertmartin-parish.php The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast
re arranging by townland my guess is Anagh is for later spelling Annagh
McCristal, Arthur Townland: Anagh Year: 1827
McCristal, Michl. Townland: Anagh Year: 1827
McCristal, Daniel Townland: Cranny Year: 1827
McCristal, Widow Townland: Cranny Year: 1827
McCristal, Bryan Townland: Luney Year: 1827
McCristal, Jas. Townland: Luney Year: 1827
McCristal, Thos., Jr. Townland: Tirgan Year: 1827
McCristal, Thos., Sr. Townland: Tirgan Year: 1827
using one spelling only and arranging by civil parish I start with
1859 Griffiths valuation three sources
1. https://www.failteromhat.com for quick index.
Mc Crystal James Curr Desertmartin Derry
Mc Crystal James Desertmartin Desertmartin Derry
Mc Crystal Michael Annagh and Moneysterlin Desertmartin Derry
Mc Crystal Henry Brackaghlislea Kilcronaghan Derry
Mc Crystal Anne Drumsamney Kilcronaghan Derry
Mc Crystal Philip Drummuck Maghera Derry
2. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ for detail and map ref .. 3. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books since 1859
Mc Crystal James Curr Desertmartin Derry
map ref 3 A,B
Mc Crystal James Desertmartin Desertmartin Derry
map ref 22 18
Mc Crystal Michael Annagh and Moneysterlin Desertmartin Derry
map ref 21 10 acres and house valued at 5 shillings pa
with patience you should be able to look this homestead up plot 21 runs SW to NE divided up by roads part of one exists today
switching to google modern map the lane , is the second lane branching off eastwards from the A 29 tobermore Rd , north of Knocknagin school the first lane sweeps around to nearly join up with the first. roughly the address is 77 Tobermore road, desertmartin BT45 5LF
switching to satellite view its currently redeveloped you can judge where the Mccrystal home was or is.
3. https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books since 1859, wil alllow you to find when that Michael left the property after 1859
hoping some of this is new to you
ps when useingbmd search as at top, use all spellings possible woops see how many https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=mccristal
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Thanks for doing all that searching, BallyaltikilliganG!
I do use the search on irishgenealogy, but I often find it very difficult to use - it's something I need to keep practicing with.
In looking through the results you've provided, the Michael McChrystal living in Annagh in 1859 would seem to be a match for my 3x great grandfather, though I'm slightly confused beyond that point. This Michael McChrystal seems to be fairly settled in Annagh, and I think this is the same Michael McChrystal who dies on the 28th of July 1894 in Annagh, with his son Michael (who I believe is my 2x great grandfather) as informant.
But then I'm wondering if this family that moves briefly to England are actually the same family at all. Because the parents Michael and Susan (sometimes Susannah) seem very far from settled. They are having children in Fermanagh in the 1850s and at least one child in Antrim in the 1860s.
I'll need some time at home to do a deep dive myself, as I'm currently very confused at the moment!
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Okay, so I've had a look at the Griffiths evaluations and the house and land listed in Annagh seems to be continuously inhabited by the McChrystals all the way through.
The name of the head of household remains Michael McChrystal throughout, but my 2x great grandfather presumably inherited on his father's death; in the book for 1899 - 1915 the name Michael is crossed out and 'Bella' is inserted. This would be the Isabella walls listed in the original post.
So I now need to figure out what, if any, relation the family in Lancashire has to this one. I've heard from other family members that some relatives *did* move across to somewhere near Wigan, so it's not a link pulled completely out of the blue. But at least looking at the Griffiths valuations, it seems to me like my ancestors stayed in Annagh. Unless of course I'm skipping a generation and there are actually three Michael McChrystals represented in the record.
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Hi there! My name is Kelly McChrystal, I stumbled onto this post doing my own research, trying to figure out if I'm related to a famous 4-star general here in the United States, who shares my last name, so, I thought I would chime in and share what I know! My great grandfather is Arthur McChrystal, born on December 18, 1888 in Desertmartin Co. Derry Ireland. He married Elizabeth (born Flannery) circa 1895. They had 3 children, my grandfather John "Jack" McChrystal, Elizabeth "Betty" Neforos (born McChrystal) and Arthur Jr.-all deceased. The big family secret that we only learned when Art died (when he was 104 years old) I believe in 1991, was that my grandpa Jack, was his adopted son! Jack's wife, my grandma Helen (born Noonan) never wanted us to know, she believed it would somehow "invalidate" our Irish heritage, as Art McChrystal was one of the founding members of the West Side Irish American Club, and considered Irish royalty in Cleveland when he settled here in 1917. The story we eventually got from her was Elizabeth was Irish, got pregnant when she was 16 yrs. old, but the baby's father was English both living in Ireland at the time. Her family sent her packing when they found out she was pregnant so she emigrated to the US where her sisters were already living and working as maids. So Elizabeth's son, my grandfather who she named John "Jack" was born here in Cleveland, Ohio. She had him in an orphanage because she couldn't afford to keep him. At some point when Jack was still a baby, she met Art, they got married in 1921, she retrieved Jack from the orphanage and he adopted him. So my grandparents are adopted Jack McChrystal and Helen, they had 7 children, one of them is my father, he's the 3rd in line. All his siblings are alive with the exception of Terrence "Terry" who died last year. Based on some of the research in the post below, it looks like this might be the same lineage since Michael was living with his siblings, one of which is Arthur J. born in 1859, that would be my great, great grandfather!
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Hi Kelly and welcome to Rootschat.
I am sure that M_ONeill will be pleased to read your post and hopefully find connections.
May I just point out that Rootschat’s policy is to not name living persons so it would be best to remove those names. You can do this by clicking on the ‘modify’ button in your post.
Good luck
Heywood
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Hi, Kelly!
So, the Arthur McChrystal who was born c.1859 that I have pencilled in my tree did have a son Arthur M born at roughly the right time - but not in Desertmartin. Arthur the elder seems to have moved back to England at some point after his 1885 marriage to Ellen Henry. The family bounces around a number of places, various places in Essex, a couple of places in London, at least one stop in Wales and then finally settling in Wigan. His son, Arthur M is listed in every census return as being born in Hutton, Essex in 1889. However, I have not found a paper record for his birth, so perhaps this is wrong. Do you have a record for your Arthur M’s birth in 1888?
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There are only
Births 85
Death 49
Marriage 32
registered for McChrystal
If you go to https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp and just enter the following you might find something new for them.. just enter Surname!!
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https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
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Hallmark, I’m well aware of how to use the Irishgenealogy search, I was simply asking Kelly if she had already found a birth record for Arthur that I hadn’t come across yet.
Also, McChrystal is a particularly difficult name to search for as it has many variants (McChrystal, McCrystal, McCristal, McChriostal, etc) and Irishgenealogy doesn’t do an automatic search for variants - so it’s very easy to miss records during searches.
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Kelly,
This looks like Arthur’ birth in case you don’t have it - born in England
1889 March quarter Billericay vol 4a pg 407
Arthur McChrystal mmn Henry
1891 census living in St Pancras
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q7J5-7MM
1901 - living at Uncle Michael’s in Desertmartin
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Desertmartin/Annagh_or_Moneysterling/1532407/
1911 - with his family in Wigan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYH-2MB
Just in case you haven’t got it, here is the marriage of Arthur of Annagh, (father Michael) to Ellen Henry
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10882/5974386.pdf
Heywood
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Heywood, thanks for posting that. For some reason, I hadn't made the connection that these two nephews were the same people as in the England census returns.
Kelly, if this Arthur is indeed your great-grandfather, then that means he spent some time living in the same house as my great-grandmother Helena ('Lena') McChrystal . ;D I've attached a photo of her below. It was taken, I believe, sometime in the 1920s.
As a side note, Arthur's brother (listed here as Michael Thomas) was in full Michael Thomas Aloysius McChrystal. He also went back to England and I believe served in the Royal Field Artillery in India during WWI, though I've yet to find time dive into the military records on that one.
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Hopefully confirms the two nephews -they are not with their family in 1901 in Wales
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X91M-Q1L
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I agree, was just looking at that record myself! Given how many children Arthur and Ellen had, it wouldn't surprise me if they'd sent Michael Thomas and Arthur away to their uncle and aunt's to ease some economic pressure on the family.
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Probably, although it is only one night’s record so we don’t know how long they were there.
They might have been a help around the place too.
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earlier records for the interested
starting near the beginning of records in Ireland
1622 muster rolls none see http://www.billmacafee.com
1630 muster rolls none http://www.billmacafee.com
1669 hearth money rolls none http://www.billmacafee.com
column headings
Record No. No. in Barony List County Barony Parish Townland (Modern Spelling) Townland as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Forename as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname as spelt in Hearth Money Rolls Surname [Standardised]
2160 Antrim Kilconway Rasharkin Gortegerhy Gortrefee Grany Christell McCrystal
2174 Antrim Kilconway Rasharkin Ballydonnelly Ballynedonly Brian McCrestle McCrystal
2175 Antrim Kilconway Rasharkin Ballydonnelly Ballynedonly Brian McCrestle McCrystal
795 L'Derry Keenaght Drumachose Drummond Drummont Robert Christall McCrystal
2199 L'Derry Loughinsholin Desertmartin Grange Grainge Owen M'Christall McCrystal
2200 L'Derry Loughinsholin Desertmartin Grange Grainge Brian M'Christall McCrystal
41 Tyrone Clogher Clogher Ballynagurragh Ballinagourah John Christell McCrystal
625 Tyrone Strabane Upper Bodoney Learden Leardan Patrick m'Christall McCrystal
1740 protestantreturns derry http://www.billmacafee.com
McCrystal McCristall Wid Loughinsholin Desertmartin Not specified
McCrystal McCristall Henry Loughinsholin Desertmartin Not specified
McCrystal McCristel Patk Loughinsholin Maghera Not specified
McCrystal McCrestal Danl Loughinsholin Maghera Not specified
1796 Flax growers of Ireland see https://www.failteromhat.com/flax/derry.php
M'Chrystal Daniel Desertmartin Derry
M'Chrystal James Desertmartin Derry
M'Chrystal Patrick Desertmartin Derry
M'Chrystal Rose Desertmartin Derry
M'Chrystal Thomas Desertmartin Derry
M'Chrystall John Desertmartin Derry
M'Crystal Thomas Kilcronaghan Derry
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Thanks for doing that search, BallyaltikilliganG! I really need to learn how to use some of these older sources in my research. Up until now, I've not gone back far enough on my Irish tree to need them!
I do have a family connection to Grange, Desertmartin, though through another family. The McLaughlins were living there in the late 1880s and early 1900s. Lena McChyrystal married an Eddie John McLaughlin from Grange and lived on a small farm there. My dad even lived with her there for a time as a child!
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1859 Griffiths Valuation http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=&firstname=&offset=40&countyname=&parishname=&unionname=&baronyname=&totalrows=77&PlaceID=838772&wildcard=
James McLaughlin map ref 47 see it on a map then
1911 census 28 in Grange (Desertmartin, Londonderry)
McLaughlin Roseanna 69 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Derry - Cannot read - Widow
McLaughlin Edward John 24 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Derry Farmer Read and write - Single
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So on the military side of things, I’ve yet to find any evidence to a link to Stanley McChrystal, but I’ve found plenty of evidence of military service in the wider McChrystal family.
Michael Thomas Aloysius McChrystal (elder brother of the Arthur McChrystal who left for America) served as a Driver (read: Horseman) in the Royal Field Artillery during WWI. He served with 4 Battery VII Brigade RFA. They were stationed as part of the 2nd Rawalpindi Division in what was then India (now Pakistan) for the duration of the war. He was probably mostly stationed in Abbottabad - more recently famous for being the site of Bin Laden’s death. Michael also likely fought in the Third Anglo-Afghan war, a brief cross-border conflict in 1919 that saw Afghanistan gain full political independence from Britain.
James Redmond McChrystal, another of Arthur’s brothers, served with the 7th Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment (a battalion also known as the Preston Pals). He served in France for the duration of WWI.
Another possible brother of the Wigan-based McChrystals was John McChrystal who served with the King’s Own Royal Lancasters. This man received two bravery awards, the Distinguished Conduct Medal (DCM) and the Military Medal. I’ve yet to confirm that this man is indeed linked. Probably need to try and find his marriage record to check his father’s name is Arthur to fully confirm.
Finally, I’ve found another Michael McChrystal (cousin of my great-grandmother, son of my 2x great grandfather’s brother John). He was working as a messenger for the General Post Office in London EC1 before the war. He then seems to have served as a Kite Balloon spotted looking for submarines off the South Coast of England at Berry Head!
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Heywood, thanks for posting that. For some reason, I hadn't made the connection that these two nephews were the same people as in the England census returns.
Kelly, if this Arthur is indeed your great-grandfather, then that means he spent some time living in the same house as my great-grandmother Helena ('Lena') McChrystal . ;D I've attached a photo of her below. It was taken, I believe, sometime in the 1920s.
As a side note, Arthur's brother (listed here as Michael Thomas) was in full Michael Thomas Aloysius McChrystal. He also went back to England and I believe served in the Royal Field Artillery in India during WWI, though I've yet to find time dive into the military records on that one.
Hi there, I've just started tracing my family. I believe Helena McChrystal may be my great grandmother. If I'm correct, she had a daughter called Eileen (1923-66) who married Joseph Marshall (1912-98). Do you have any more info about Helena? I.e how many children she had? or any other photos? Any help much appreciated.
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Hey Fi, yes Helena did have a daughter Eileen. I don't have much information on her in my tree but if your dates are correct then she would have been the elder sister of my grandmother Roseanne McLaughlin. I believe that would make us second cousins!
I do have some further details and photos that might interest you, I'll send them through as a PM rather than fill up the thread here. :)
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That would be great if you could send through info/photos. I'm so new to this that I couldn't figure out how to PM you! Thanks!
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
That would be great if you could send through info/photos. I'm so new to this that I couldn't figure out how to PM you! Thanks!
See https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
KG