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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: Ellerby on Saturday 27 July 19 11:38 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
new at posting here, but old hand at research and genetic genealogy.
Gilmores of County Derry have driven me crazy !
I manage many DNA kits and have the tests of 6 people aged 70-94 who are Gilmore descendants and I am trying to unravel it all. We are all at Ancestry, gedmatch, Myh and a couple at FTdna.
I have built a huge research tree detailing the trees of about 500 DNA matches and finding common ancestors etc. it has about 15000 records of all these trees and i use it to reference all the branches of gilmores. it is not entirely sourced nor proven - but more of a collection of data. Once the DNA link is proven I then re-research and source the data before it goes into my main tree. so....I know I have a lot of incorrect records in that research tree.
I am definitely related to the couple Robert Gilmore and Mary / Margaret /Martha of Garvagh and I think Inshaleen. I have vast numbers of DNA matches with US Gilmores and they all also seem to originate from Gilmores from Inshaleen. I also have researched and am very confident that my 4th great grandparents are Thomas Gilmore 1811-1897 and Margaret Gilmore b1807-1870 (yes a Gilmore and a Gilmore). Their daughter Margaret born around 1840 turned up in Australia in 1858 with basically no information. I have used DNA matches to research and build her life.
After a year of researching and collecting data and trees I am swamped. I am asking those Gilmore researchers out there if they have info about my couple. Unproven Ancestry trees have their birth years as 1770 to 1780 - but after researching here I wonder if my robert is the same Robert that is mentioned in a thread where he was b in 1772 and d in 1855 aged 83. That referenced his wife as Martha - and that could be possible because the Bann Valley records said the M???? was indecipherable.
Any help will be appreciated as I am feeling demoralised by my Gilmores. And just plain stuck.
Elle
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
..........of Garvagh and I think Inshaleen.
Just to make you aware of where the townland of Inshaleen is located in Errigal civil parish.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/errigal/inshaleen/
KG
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Hi Elle,
I'm sure these are the correct Gilmores/ Gilmours, that is, of Inshaleen. My great grandmother's uncle was John Orr Gilmour, born in NZ in 1875, presumably named after an uncle of the same name in Indiana (John Orr Gilmore), and his grandmother's maiden name Orr. Seems too much of a coincidence that the Visitation records from 1840 at the First Garvagh Presbyterian Church record this name.
The siblings I know of for certain are family who were in NZ are brothers Robert (my 2x ggf) and William, who travelled to Australia (probably in the 1850s) then set up the first butchery near Queenstown in NZ at the time of the 1863 gold rush. They then built a large flour mill. A newspaper record suggests Robert landed in Dunedin in 1858, though this can't be verified. The brothers' name changes from Gilmore to Gilmour in about the 1870s in newspaper and official records.
Their younger brother Adam Orr Gilmour followed them to NZ in about 1873. William retired to Sydney, and Adam followed after William's death in 1908, inheriting his large house at Penshurst. Robert died in 1909 in NZ. I have an extensive tree on Ancestry but am having real trouble confirming the other Gilmores/ Gilmours. Any help would also be appreciated too!
Hayden
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Hello to the Gilmore/ Gilmour descendants. Hope this is still a live topic. I have several Gilmour lines in my ancestry from around Garvagh, including from Inchaleen. I am on Ancestry, My Heritage and FTDNA. Hope to connect with some of you
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I am definitely related to the couple Robert Gilmore and Mary / Margaret /Martha of Garvagh and I think Inshaleen. I have vast numbers of DNA matches with US Gilmores and they all also seem to originate from Gilmores from Inshaleen. I also have researched and am very confident that my 4th great grandparents are Thomas Gilmore 1811-1897 and Margaret Gilmore b1807-1870 (yes a Gilmore and a Gilmore). Their daughter Margaret born around 1840 turned up in Australia in 1858 with basically no information. I have used DNA matches to research and build her life.
After a year of researching and collecting data and trees I am swamped. I am asking those Gilmore researchers out there if they have info about my couple. Unproven Ancestry trees have their birth years as 1770 to 1780 - but after researching here I wonder if my robert is the same Robert that is mentioned in a thread where he was b in 1772 and d in 1855 aged 83. That referenced his wife as Martha - and that could be possible because the Bann Valley records said the M???? was indecipherable.
Robert Gilmour of Garvagh married Martha Harper of Inchaleen. He died 1849 and she died 1857.
Robert Gilmore of Inchaleen married Ellen Orr- son John Orr Gilmore to Indiana, sons Robert, William Torrance & Adam Orr Gilmour to N.Z./Australia.
A newspaper record suggests Robert landed in Dunedin in 1858, though this can't be verified.
Robert Gilmour married Sarah Hunter. 20 Aug.1872 “City of Dunedin” departed Glasgow, Scotland, 12 days after marriage. Arrived 30 Dec.1872 Port Chalmers, Dunedin, Otago, N.Z.
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Hello Aghadowey thanks for the extra information. Any idea why there is a Torrance middle name? Was someone's mother a Torrens?
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Hello Aghadowey thanks for the extra information. Any idea why there is a Torrance middle name? Was someone's mother a Torrens?
I don't know of any family connection at the moment but many of my files are not available at present.
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Hi LindeL and Aghadowey, great to hear from you both.
LindeL, which is your Ancestry tree? Mine is the long-winded Gilmour-Hunter-Johnston-Chequer etc etc tree under my name Hayden Trass.
Aghadowey, my Robert Gilmour of Inshaleen probably travelled to Australia in the 1850s - I do know he had already been in NZ about 10 years when he returned to Ireland for a time in 1871 (NZ newspaper records are extensive and record his movements). William stayed behind and ran their flour mill. Robert married Sarah Hunter of Drumadreen (her mother appears to be of the Belraugh McPhersons) as you say, and she returned with him to NZ in 1872. Most of the Hunters followed within a few years. Though she died in 1925, I grew up knowing of Sarah as "Grandma Gilmour"- I have her heirlooms including a very old piece of Irish linen. Anyway, while I am confident of her siblings' identities and whereabouts, the Gilmore/ Gilmours are hard to track.
I know a fair amount about William Gilmour, Robert's brother (they were farmers, butchers and flour millers together till things appear to have soured) but I can't find proof of a middle name anywhere, and not one of Torrance, except on Ancestry trees.
I suspect a number of mix-ups on these trees. I see in the 1818 visitation the following list which you probably know about, LindeL:
Robt Gilmore
Mary his wife
Mary
Robert
Torrance
Jennet
Margt
John
Does anyone know how to see full original copies of these visitation records- surely they've been digitised? There seem to be missing pieces of info:
F040
Robt GILMORE
Names of family
John GILMORE
Mary McNEAL, old woman
F041
Robert GILMORE
John Orr GILMORE
Mary GILMORE
Robt GILMORE
Ellin Jane GILMORE
Wm ______GILMORE
Allen____GILMORE
Thanks all, hope to hear from from you again. I will keep digging... I am writing a book about the family so will persevere.
Hayden, Wellington NZ
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I know a fair amount about William Gilmour, Robert's brother (they were farmers, butchers and flour millers together till things appear to have soured) but I can't find proof of a middle name anywhere, and not one of Torrance, except on Ancestry trees.
My sources were a grandson of Adam Orr Gilmour in N.Z. who I corresponded with c1990 and then a cousin of his.
Does anyone know how to see full original copies of these visitation records- surely they've been digitised? There seem to be missing pieces of info:
I haven't heard of the old First Garvagh records being digitised (they are very difficult to read). It looks as though you are reading from Bann Valley transcriptions? they were poorly done & full of errors but the originals do have gaps. I transcribed them years ago for myself from the originals.
Sarah Hunter's mother was Sarah McPherson.
Robert Gilmour (married Ellen Orr) had the following children-
- John Orr Gilmour, Indiana
- Mary Gilmore m. McNeill & stayed here
- Robert Gilmour, N.Z., m. Sarah Hunter
- William Torrance? Gilmour, N.Z.
- Elizabeth Gilmore?
- Ellen Jane Gilmore, Philadelphia, m. King
- James Gilmore (haven't tried to trace him but an online tree has him married & in Invercargill)
- Archibald Henderson Gilmore, named after aunt's husband, stayed here
- Margaret Gilmore, stayed here
- Adam Orr Gilmour, N.Z.
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Thanks Aghadowey. That's brilliant. That makes sense about James Gilmour as that name appears in the same general area as William and Robert briefly in the 1860s. I'll do some more digging on him and also try to work out if Elizabeth actually existed.
Yes the info I got is from the Bann Valley records: 1840 First Garvagh Presbyterian Church Visitation List
https://www.angelfire.com/falcon/bannvalley/visitation/1840_1/1.html
You may have been in touch with Bruce Gilmour who was in NZ in the 90s researching his grandfather, Adam Orr Gilmour's line. Bruce was Australian- I wonder who the cousin might have been? Last year I actually stayed in the Gladstone Grand Hotel in Fairlie, near Mt Cook, NZ, where Adam and his wife Martha Hunter (Sarah's sister) were the first license holders from 1884-1901. It's still quite original though full of cracks from the earthquake in 2010, and I worry about its future.
On that trip I visited the grave of Sarah Ann Hunter (McPherson) in nearby Temuka and cleaned the lichen off. There is a fascinating obituary written about her in 1892:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LCP18920901.2.16?items_per_page=100&query=%22Sarah+hunter%22&snippet=true&sort_by=byDA
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Yes, I was in touch with Bruce Gilmour who has since died. I was also in touch with a granddaughter of Ellen Gilmour who may still be alive.
James Thomas [?] Gilmore (James Alexander Gilmore on family tree?) bapt. 16 July 1839 First Garvagh Presbyterian Church.
An Elizabeth Gilmore certainly existed-
Born or (bapt.?) 7 Mar.1837 according to an online tree. There is a baptism in 1st Garvagh records for Elizabeth daughter of Robt. Gilmore, Inchaleen.
Will have a search for James but would be interested to know what you are able to turn up.
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I could be wrong but I have a terrible suspicion this James Alexander Gilmour might be the one on online tree (in which case not son of this Robert Gilmour)-
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc04Cycl-t1-body1-d7-d56-d2.html
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I could be wrong but I have a terrible suspicion this James Alexander Gilmour might be the one on online tree (in which case not son of this Robert Gilmour)-
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc04Cycl-t1-body1-d7-d56-d2.html
Yes you are right. I've discovered that none of the three James Gilmours on the electoral rolls near Invercargill are the James I'm after, so I have no details at all now, other than the baptism record you suggested.
James Alexander Gilmour c.1857-1937 is the son of James Gilmore of Moneydig (I am learning my Derry geography, I see that's very close to Inshaleen). Interestingly, his son was James Torrence Gilmour.
James Boyd Gilmour c.1844-1933 is from Co. Derry- but wrong d.o.b.
James Gilmour, c. 1839-1919, farmer at Makarewa near Invercargill was Scottish. Right age wrong country.
One James Gilmour whose death is recorded in NZ (1914 at age 75, so born about 1839) has no obituary so I'm stuck there. He may have been the one in Cromwell, Central Otago, in 1877, working as a mail contractor or the one at Goodwood north of Dunedin. I'll keep looking.
I haven't asked- what is your personal connection to these Gilmours?
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James Alexander Gilmour c.1857-1937 is the son of James Gilmore of Moneydig (I am learning my Derry geography, I see that's very close to Inshaleen).
The townland of Moneydig is approx 4 km east of Inshaleen.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/desertoghill/bovagh/moneydig/
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4808691#map=14/54.9869/-6.6427
KG
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James Alexander Gilmour c.1857-1937 is the son of James Gilmore of Moneydig (I am learning my Derry geography, I see that's very close to Inshaleen). Interestingly, his son was James Torrence Gilmour.
James Alexander Gilmour (19 Oct.1856-1937 N.Z.) was the son of James Gilmore of "Farmhill" Boghilboy & Nancy Millar.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/desertoghill/bovagh/boghilboy/
James Gilmore & Nancy Millar had a large family, including a son Torrens Gilmore who married a Torrens.
I think that perhaps someone tracing the Inchaleen Gilmores found James' baptism then decided that James Alexander Gilmour in N.Z. was the same person ::)
James Boyd Gilmour c.1844-1933 is from Co. Derry- but wrong d.o.b.
James Boyd Gilmour was the son of James Gilmour of Ballynacally & his wife Nancy Gilmour also of Ballynacally.
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/aghadowey/aghadowney/ballynacally-beg/
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Hello all
I ave no hope of sorting out Gilmours, but am hopeful that someone else will find a key to unlock them. My tree on Ancestry is called Antrim-Londonderry, but I'm afraid I haven't done much work on Ancestry and have so far not succeeded in finding Hayden's tree. I'll try again when not so tired!
The potential for mixing up Robert Gilmours is apparently endless. My notes show a Robert Gilmour marrying a Torrens in Garvagh in 1797; her Christian name is illegible, but she might be the Martha Torrens in the 1796 census. Is this a different Robert and Martha marriage or the same or a complete red herring? I don't think it is wise to construct trees yet, in my current state of wisdom on the subject.
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I got sidetracked last night into looking at the Ballynacally Gilmours. A lot about them in the British Newspapers Archive. James Gilmour of Ballynacally made quite an impact locally, and emigrated as an elderly man to Melbourne, Australia. His son was "W.T. Gilmour", anyone bet on William Torrens Gilmour? and he married in Dunedin, NZ in May 1877
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I got sidetracked last night into looking at the Ballynacally Gilmours. A lot about them in the British Newspapers Archive. James Gilmour of Ballynacally made quite an impact locally, and emigrated as an elderly man to Melbourne, Australia. His son was "W.T. Gilmour", anyone bet on William Torrens Gilmour? and he married in Dunedin, NZ in May 1877
Afraid you'd lose that bet- his name was William THOMAS Gilmour.
Otago Daily Times, 2 Apr.1877: MARRIAGE On the 30th March, at the residence of the bride’s father, Walker Street, by Mr. J.J. Haley, William Thomas Gilmour, to Harriett, second daughter of T.C. Burt, Dunedin.
Otago Daily Times, 25 Mar.1929: GILMOUR.- On March 22, at his residence, 102 Carroll street, William Thomas Gilmour, aged 82. Private interment.
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Ah good. Too bad about the bet though. Good job I didn't stake the house on it!
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There is a family pedigree for Gilmore of Inshaleen and Garvagh, PRONI T3624/1
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Not sure if this will help anyone -
Descendants of John Gilmore of Inchaleen (based on T3624/1 & other sources).
1-John Gilmore b. , Inchaleen, Garvagh
+ Mary Anderson
2-John Gilmore b. Abt 1789, Inchaleen, Garvagh, d. 4 May 1847, Mayoghill, Garvagh
+ Anne Thompson b. Abt 1794, d. 30 Apr 1879
3-James Gilmore b. Abt 1817, d. 8 Jul 1887
+ Agnes M Montgomery
4-Thomas Chalmers Gilmore
4-John James Gilmore
4-Robert McCheyne Gilmore
4-William Fuller Dansoyne Gilmore
4-Elizabeth B Fuller Gilmore
+ Robert Harvey
4-Dorothea Gilmore
+ Whyte
4-Jessie G M Gilmore
4-Margaret Isabella Gilmore
4-George John Sorley Gilmore
4-Alexander Patrick Gilmore
4-Richard Smyth Gilmore
4-James Montgomery Colvins Gilmore
4-Matthew Henry Gilmore
3-John Gilmore b. Abt 1834, d. 26 Feb 1889
+ Lillian Harvey
4-Robert Harvey Gilmour
4-Elizabeth Anne Gilmour
4-John Gilmour
4-Dorothea Fuller Gilmour b. 1 Dec 1876, Killinure, Omagh, d. 19 Jul 1952
+ James Alexander Hogg
3-William Gilmore b. Abt 1836, Mayoghill, Garvagh, d. 12 Sep 1906
+ Mary Ann McKissack b. Abt 1836, Mullane, Drumachose, d. 6 Jun 1900
4-Agnes Gilmore b. 8 Mar 1868
4-Sarah Gilmore b. 20 Jun 1870, d. 2 Feb 1876
4-Isabella Emerson Gilmore b. 28 Dec 1871, d. 21 Jul 1950
4-Mary Gilmore b. 13 Jul 1873, d. 7 Mar 1876
4-John Gilmore b. 17 Jan 1875, d. 1 Feb 1942
4-Sarah Gilmore b. 24 Sep 1876, d. 7 Aug 1954
3-Jane Gilmore d. Abt 1840
3-Mary Gilmore
+ Alexander Kennedy
3-Ann Gilmore
3-Isabella Gilmore
3-Barbara Gilmore
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Rev. James Gilmour (c1817-1887) of Boveedy
m.1 Dorothea Fuller & had: Thomas Chalmers (1850), Elizabeth Bennett Fuller (1852), John James (1854), Dorothea (1856), William Fuller D'Aubigne (1859), Robert Murray McCheyne (1861)
m.2 Agnes Muir Montgomery & had: Jessie Gillespie Montgomery (1872), George John Sorley (1873), Alexander Patrick (1875), Agnes Mary (1876), Richard Smyth (1879), James Montgomery (1881), Margaret Isabella (1883), Matthew Henry (1884)
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Hi, I just came upon this chat and am hoping you are still checking in now and then. Aghadowey, I am distressed after reading your comment about the visitation transcripts being full of errors. I have been using them as a source in my attempt to distinguish one Alexander Gilmore from another as well as all the James', Roberts, etc.
Have you, by chance, made your transcriptions available for use? I would love to see them if you are open to the idea.
My grandfather was David Anderson Gilmore, son of Alexander and Elizabeth (McIntosh) Gilmore, of Inchaleen. Alexander's father was James Gilmore. Which one? Good question.
I look forward to hearing from you.
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James Gilmore (c1770?) married Mary Anderson known as "Lady Mary."
Son Alexander Gilmore (c1802-12 Sept.1886 Inchaleen), farmer, Inchaleen, m.1 Rebecca McIlree- 6 children; m.2 (12 Apr.1853 1st Garvagh Presbyterian Church) Elizabeth Brown McIntosh (c1820-16 Oct.1903 Killyvalley), daughter of James McIntosh, Killyvalley.
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Thank you Aghadowey for your response. I had Mary Anderson and Rebecca McIlree as possibles since I don't have any sources to prove the relationships. I didn't know what year Alexander was born until you just told me.
I have looked at the Baptism and Marriage information through the First Garvagh Presbyterian Church and have been able to set up some "if this, then thats", but the confirming piece of information eludes me.
Do you have any other suggestions for me to research? I have tried several of the ancestry sites and just keep stockpiling information that may or may not be correct. Good thing I like puzzles.
Thanks again for your help.
Irene
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Not sure exactly what you are looking for but online records for First Garvagh, and several other local churches, are a mess of errors.
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I guess I am not exactly sure what I need either. It seems that the on-line information available to me is full of errors, however, I am not able to view the originals as I don't see a trip to Ireland in my near future. I believe in providing sources when establishing connections and I can't do that; even the information you provided me I can't really use since I have no source for it. Although I really do appreciate that you provided it!!
I have checked PRONI and GRONI, Ancestry, Family Search and IrishGenealogy.com. So, I guess my need is to figure out what I need.
Thanks for your help and patience.
I think I will go focus on my County Cork ancestors and see where that gets me.
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I do have sources for my information (original church records, vital records, newspaper articles, entries in Family Bibles, land records, etc.) but too much to list here.
Vital records online at https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp (births, deaths & Catholic marriages from 1864; non-Catholic marriages from 1845)
Census records (1831, 1901, 1911)- http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
There was a family history published years ago in America which had been sent to relatives in Ireland which I used as a start to researching the Inchaleen family. At one point my father's cousin in America sent me photocopies of the pages (his wife was a descendant) but a few years ago I passed if on to a friend here in Ireland who was also a descendant. Some of it is inaccurate or pure fantasy but much of it is useful as a starting point to look for sources.
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Thank you again for your help! I really do appreciate it! I believe that you have done extensive research and have verified your ancestors. You seem to be quite knowledgeable about the area and families.