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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: CarolA3 on Monday 22 July 19 13:31 BST (UK)
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I'm probably the last person to find out that the charge for downloading a will has gone down from £10 to £1.50 :D
Guess what I'm doing next ;D
Carol
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Not the last person Carol, I did not know that either. Thanks for mentioning it.
Rosie
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I didn't know either,but it's here in black and white 8)
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
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Just ordered 3 wills - total cost £4.50 ;D ;D ;D
Oops! Forgot to say thank you to CarolA3 :-[
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Somehow I missed that announcement......off to find my piggy bank! ;D
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Thanks,Carol!!
At first I read the new price as £7.50 (Monday morning eyesight).
£1.50 is a bargain! :)
Maureen
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Hmmm... what inspired this act of governmental generosity :-X :o Could it be an error :o! Better order now just in case ;D. Could we see GRO download charges being similarly reduced ????
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Just ordered 3 wills - total cost £4.50 ;D ;D ;D
Me too!
Thanks CarolA3.
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Just ordered 3 wills - total cost £4.50 ;D ;D ;D
Me too!
Thanks CarolA3.
Me too. :)
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Well that is a very useful piece of information CarolA. I shall be having a look to see what I can find.
Seems as though the wills dept. is now doing the same as the GRO in offering downloads, as a cheaper option to paper wills.
I wonder if this is a trial or a permanent offer.
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Let's hope it is permanent ;) I've just ordered another 3. :o
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Well that is a very useful piece of information CarolA. I shall be having a look to see what I can find.
Seems as though the wills dept. is now doing the same as the GRO in offering downloads, as a cheaper option to paper wills.
I wonder if this is a trial or a permanent offer.
They have been doing downloads for a long time but at £10 each.
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The download service has been available for two or three years, although I hadn't ordered many because of the £10 they were charging.
We used to be warned that if an entry just said 'Administration' and not 'Probate', you'd be wasting your money because the person had died without making a will. At £1.50, that's now the cheapest mistake you'll ever make ;D
Typically, having told all of you about this, I've only been able to find one for myself. It does solve a long-standing mystery though 8)
Carol
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Sorry, Carol, but I think the term I might use in this instance is "S-d's Law" :'(
However, thank you for the tip-off - I've now ordered 6 close-family wills for less than the price of 1 under the old terms.
For a person of Yorkshire descent (although not birth) that's not bad going. 8)
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Not the last by a long way :-)
Thanks so much for this :-)
Boo
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My confirmation email from the Probate Service went into my Junk folder, so watch out!
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This is taken from the site
The fee for each copy request is £1.50 to download (the £1.50 charge is required by law for the release of public documents
If that's that's the case, why do bmd certs cost more?
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We used to be warned that if an entry just said 'Administration' and not 'Probate', you'd be wasting your money because the person had died without making a will. At £1.50, that's now the cheapest mistake you'll ever make ;D
Carol
For probate calendar entries after the date they stopped including the names and addresses of the people to whom admin was granted (not sure when but I've just ordered one from 1981) even if there wasn't a will, knowing who was granted admin can be very useful and can confirm/deny it is the right person. In the case of the lady whose Admin I have applied for, as far as I can tell she moved quite a way away from where she'd been living for most of her life. It feels right, my gut tells me it 'was' her but £1.50 to confirm it is the cheapest show in town at the mo :-)
Boo
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The download service has been available for two or three years, although I hadn't ordered many because of the £10 they were charging.
We used to be warned that if an entry just said 'Administration' and not 'Probate', you'd be wasting your money because the person had died without making a will. At £1.50, that's now the cheapest mistake you'll ever make ;D
Typically, having told all of you about this, I've only been able to find one for myself. It does solve a long-standing mystery though 8)
Carol
Forgot to say thanks too, thanks Carol :). I wonder when it did change, the May 10th snapshot shows it was still £10 a couple of months ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20190510143300/https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
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Unfortunately it looks as though the £10 charge still applies to Soldier's wills. :'(
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I would also like to thank Carol ... I was only thinking a couple of weeks ago I really couldn't justify £10 for the wills I wanted (but didn't REALLY need) ... but went on a spending spree last night! ::)
Unfortunately it looks as though the £10 charge still applies to Soldier's wills. :'(
I have just looked for a couple who died in WWI and WWII and they both appear in my basket as £1.50? ;D
Liz
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Unfortunately it looks as though the £10 charge still applies to Soldier's wills. :'(
That's strange BumbleB, as the help page makes no mention of a difference in pricing :-\?
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
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Can only go with this:
https://www.gov.uk/probate-search
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Can only go with this:
https://www.gov.uk/probate-search
Evidently they've overlooked that page when updating the rest of the site. It's £1.50 across the board, as others have found.
Carol
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I was only thinking a couple of weeks ago I really couldn't justify £10 for the wills I wanted (but didn't REALLY need) ... but went on a spending spree last night! ::)
Same here :)
I only looked at the wills site when answering a different RC thread where someone's probate was mentioned. Having checked that entry I thought I might as well see if the price had gone up, as GRO put theirs up recently. Imagine my surprise ............................ :o ;D
Carol
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This is taken from the site
The fee for each copy request is £1.50 to download (the £1.50 charge is required by law for the release of public documents
If that's the case, why do bmd certs cost more?
The previous wording for ordering wills was the same, even missing off the closing bracket after 'documents'. Only the amount has changed.
As for GRO, their charges are set by Parliament I believe.
Carol
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Forgot to say thanks too, thanks Carol :). I wonder when it did change, the May 10th snapshot shows it was still £10 a couple of months ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20190510143300/https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
I've asked them and will let you know. There doesn't seem to have been an announcement :-\
Carol
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Forgot to say thanks too, thanks Carol :). I wonder when it did change, the May 10th snapshot shows it was still £10 a couple of months ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20190510143300/https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help
I've asked them and will let you know. There doesn't seem to have been an announcement :-\
Carol
Since it is still in BETA, perhaps they are just testing to see what is an appropriate level of charge. Perhaps with the hike to £10, only a trickle of orders ended up coming in. Now if they get a deluge, they know it's too cheap ;D ::) :P.
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Interesting piece on the WDYTYA? Magazine website says that the price cut "was introduced in a statutory instrument that became law on 22 July" and "will be in place for the next 12 months. A spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice, which runs Find a Will told WDYTYA? Magazine that a new proposal for ordering probate records would be implemented after that time, which " might mean other price changes" ".
Having ordered 9 wills yesterday, the above allays my initial fears that the £1.50 was a typo! I can see me ordering lots more over the next year.
And interesting to note that the £1.50 is cheaper than the 10 credits (£2.50) charged for wills and testaments on Scotlands People!
William
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Here's the reply I've just had from the wills people, sent at 1244 UK time:
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I only wish I could find some that might help me. I like a bargain!
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Interesting piece on the WDYTYA? Magazine website says that the price cut "was introduced in a statutory instrument that became law on 22 July" and "will be in place for the next 12 months. A spokesperson for the Ministry of Justice, which runs Find a Will told WDYTYA? Magazine that a new proposal for ordering probate records would be implemented after that time, which " might mean other price changes" ".
Having ordered 9 wills yesterday, the above allays my initial fears that the £1.50 was a typo! I can see me ordering lots more over the next year.
And interesting to note that the £1.50 is cheaper than the 10 credits (£2.50) charged for wills and testaments on Scotlands People!
William
I wonder if the eventual aim is to make the whole thing fully digital, I assume at the moment some human involvement is required in the orders given the 10 working day wait. In which case we might have to pay a bit extra to cover the costs of the investment required to make the whole system automated.
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Thanks, CarolA3 ;D ;D
Just ordered three wills at £1.50 each. Totally painless 8)
KG
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I've ordered 6 and 2 arrived this afternoon. :)
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Thankyou CarolA3 - just ordered 5. Now have to exercise patience!
Brie
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Mine have all arrived this afternoon ;D - very happy!
Liz
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Ordered one today after I saw the WDYTYA magazine post on Facebook, estimate delivery date 10 August. I suspect those arriving quickly have already been scanned following somebody ordering it previously.
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Ordered seven wills so far, first Will was available after just four days, really quick service.
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Haven't received any yet. One thing I have noticed is that if you use the Probate services page indexes, which you do really need to use as the handwritten folio numbers are not on Ancestry's indexes, is that they are often just jumbled up so you have to trawl through up to 20 pages to find the entry you are looking for. Also the Probate service's indexes often include handwritten reswearing of estate sizes or other notes that are not on Ancestry's version.
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If you are searching Probate indexes '1996 to present' . you can use the advanced search with a christian name instead of trawling the indexes
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If you are searching Probate indexes '1996 to present' . you can use the advanced search with a christian name instead of trawling the indexes
and if you click on a column header (name/date of death/registry etc etc)it will sort by that column in order low-high, or click it again to reverse that).
Boo
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I have ordered 5 so far. I wouldn't have ordered them if it weren't for the price.
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I ordered 20 for £30.00. I received 8 after 2 days and they were very informative.
I know for myself just seeing a signature is well worth £1.50 if not on any other document I have.
Sandy
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Seems the price change has fallen at the first fence. I placed an order on 24 July with an estimated delivery of 8 August. Sadly, I'm still waiting.
Sent a query to them 13 August and finally got a reply yesterday saying there was a delay due to high demand.
Yet again, someone fails or is unable to think the job through fully. Obviously there would be a high demand and that should be taken into account, but as appears to be the norm these days, people who get these jobs don't seem to look at the wider picture.
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I wonder how many people would have ordered wills if they had not reduced the price. I don't think we should be complaining at a possible temporary delay in the system because lots of people have decided to take up the new price and ordered multiple wills. Family history is all about patience :)
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Seems the price change has fallen at the first fence. I placed an order on 24 July with an estimated delivery of 8 August. Sadly, I'm still waiting.
Sent a query to them 13 August and finally got a reply yesterday saying there was a delay due to high demand.
Yet again, someone fails or is unable to think the job through fully. Obviously there would be a high demand and that should be taken into account, but as appears to be the norm these days, people who get these jobs don't seem to look at the wider picture.
I think they badly underestimated the importance of wills to genealogists!
I don't mind waiting longer for the will I ordered, but I find the messages from the website a tad frustrating.
Firstly, when I placed the order, it said "You will get a message when copies of the wills you have ordered are ready to download. This should happen within 10 working days from order." Then gave me an estimated delivery date of 18th August, which was more than 10 days away and was a Sunday, i.e. not a working day.
The 18th has come and gone, but the estimated delivery date hasn't been altered. It still says the 18th.
I've been logging in every day since to check, just in case I miss the message saying it's been delivered.
I'm not going to email my complaint (yet!) but I do think they could have designed the system a little better.
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I agree. It's not the delay. I was slightly sceptical when I ordered. It's the fact that yet again, something 'new' is badly thought out and handled.
Surely it wouldn't take much to put a note on the Find a Will site. A tiny little gesture can go a long way.
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I wonder how many people would have ordered wills if they had not reduced the price. I don't think we should be complaining at a possible temporary delay in the system because lots of people have decided to take up the new price and ordered multiple wills. Family history is all about patience :)
Judging from the messages on this thread, it looks like most of us have taken advantage of the price drop!
I've become accustomed to having immediate access to lots of records, but actually it's quite nice to have to wait for something and anticipate its arrival. I've ordered a will of an ancestor who had 8 children (that I know of), two of which were girls who I have lost trace of. Hopefully this will can reveal what happened to them.
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Please, please, claire666 (and anyone else), don't send any complaint. Reason: we don't want them to withdraw this service, do we? :-[ I see that rosie99 has already made this same comment. :)
Let's face it, if the price had remained at £10 would we have ordered so many wills?
AS usual, we are our own worst enemies, and it's always someone else's fault :-* :-X
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I agree. It's not the delay. I was slightly sceptical when I ordered. It's the fact that yet again, something 'new' is badly thought out and handled.
Surely it wouldn't take much to put a note on the Find a Will site. A tiny little gesture can go a long way.
I thought there would be a note on the website warning of high demand, delays etc.
I only knew there was a delay because it was mentioned in the Lost Cousins newsletter.
Please, please, claire666 (and anyone else), don't send any complaint. Reason: we don't want them to withdraw this service, do we? :-[ I see that rosie99 has already made this same comment. :)
I'm not going to. Unless it gets to October or something and I still haven't received my will!
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Good ;D ;D
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But, there lies one of the biggest faults in this country....we don't complain enough about poor service and businesses just assume that we will adopt a sheep like mentality and tow their line.
Complaining doesn't have to have negative effect. It can be beneficial to both sides.
Like Claire, I'm going to leave them alone until October.
And that's my last on the matter, until October.
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By the same token, perhaps I should congratulate them:
I ordered 6 wills on 22 July with an estimated delivery date of 6 August - I received 1 on 29 July, 3 on 30 July and 1 on 31 July - therefore all received early. :D :D
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By the same token, perhaps I should congratulate them:
I ordered 6 wills on 22 July with an estimated delivery date of 6 August - I received 1 on 29 July, 3 on 30 July and 1 on 31 July - therefore all received early. :D :D
No harm in emailing them and them know - it might make someone's day :)
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I wonder how many people would have ordered wills if they had not reduced the price. I don't think we should be complaining at a possible temporary delay in the system because lots of people have decided to take up the new price and ordered multiple wills. Family history is all about patience :)
Hear hear Rosie :D
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Please, please, claire666 (and anyone else), don't send any complaint. Reason: we don't want them to withdraw this service, do we? :-[ I see that rosie99 has already made this same comment. :)
Let's face it, if the price had remained at £10 would we have ordered so many wills?
AS usual, we are our own worst enemies, and it's always someone else's fault :-* :-X
I agree completely with this comment, the more people who email with queries and complaints,the less time they'll have to do the actual will look ups!
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I emailed them a few days ago. Said I understand that they have been inundated but have seen many complaints about exceeded delivery dates.
I suggested they put something on the site to say that there is currently a great demand and that delivery may be delayed. That would save them a lot of work replying to queries about late delivery and keep their customers informed. I may not like delays but if they at least tell me then that goes a long way to keeping me a happy-ish customer.
I had a reply - about 5 mins ago
The lady said they are working hard to get the service back on track and to provide a more realistic timeframe for delivery of copy wills in times of high demand.The timeframe information on the website is currently under review.
So, as far as I can see they seem to be listening and are trying their best.
That'll do for me especially when, though I may have to wait a while longer, I can get 6 wills for less than the previous price for one.
Boo
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I wonder how many people would have ordered wills if they had not reduced the price. I don't think we should be complaining at a possible temporary delay in the system because lots of people have decided to take up the new price and ordered multiple wills. Family history is all about patience :)
Don't also forget many will be taking holidays so they will be temporarily short staffed at the moment.
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I wonder how many people would have ordered wills if they had not reduced the price. I don't think we should be complaining at a possible temporary delay in the system because lots of people have decided to take up the new price and ordered multiple wills. Family history is all about patience :)
Don't also forget many will be taking holidays so they will be temporarily short staffed at the moment.
Also probably not many staff employed to do the job anyway, I doubt that the original demand for copy wills kept many people employed.
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The wills I ordered are a couple of weeks over due, and it seems from a FH Forum where I'm an Admin, that it is older ones that are delayed. People who have ordered fairly recents ones received them in a few days.
I'm certainly not complaining though, as they are wills I wouldn't have bothered ordering if they were still £10. It isn't often that something from a government department goes down that much in price. Lets just hope that they haven't be so inundated with requests and complaints that they decide it isn't worth it and put the price up again!
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I have already said in response to another post in this subject, I have yet to order any wills at the new price, I chose to wait as it was obvious there would be a mad rush. We know from past experience that something like that, or a new major release has caused some websites to crash, at least that hasn’t happened in this case.
With some people sending for orders in double figures, what chance do the GRO have of keeping to their delivery times, so I see little point in complaining. ???
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I have yet to order any wills at the new price, I chose to wait as it was obvious there would be a mad rush.
With some people sending for orders in double figures, what chance do the GRO have of keeping to their delivery times, so I see little point in complaining. ???
I agree!
Common sense would tell us...
Price reduction = Inundated = Delay
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816986.0
Seems to me some just like to complain...
When the price was £10 did those same people send emails to complain about the price?...
Probably not & would probably not have ordered but now they have ordered at the cheap price, it's not being delivered quick enough (even although they wouldn't have ordered previously) i.e. a no win situation...give them a bargain & they'll still complain!
They should be very thankful as I'd be happy to wait 6 months if need be to get wills I'd like (Scotland) which can't be ordered/downloaded this side of 1925!
Annie
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Don’t forget before it was possible to order online, we had to write to the probate office in question and wait a minimum of 6 weeks. Cost £5. I had to wait 3 months once.
I am waiting on 2 but I only ordered them on the 11th.
Some wills have been full of great information, 2 were mirror wills.. leaving everything (no detail) to the surviving spouse. Now they were a waste of £10 each.
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One of mine was uploaded but when I looked, it was the usual Probate page but then a letter from them saying that as it was only Administration there was no Will etc. I contacted them to say that there should be a Will as it was Probate. I have a snip from a newspaper listing a whole load of bequests so there must be one! Their reply was apologetic but I am still waiting a week later. This was ordered on 23 July and was from 1926.
I recently ordered copy Wills from the Borthwick Institute, York - 1754 and 1769. They charge £13.50 each, so we should all be grateful for this much-reduced price of £1.50.
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I ordered 2 and had one of them two days before the date,I am waiting on a 1961 due 2nd August.
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If I wanted to be really picky, I would point out a spelling mistake on the "expired wills" page...
Your copies will be available for download within 10 working days of submitting your order. These items will be available for viewing for 31 days from the date you first download the copy. Your account will show you when each copy is available until. Once that date has past the item will be removed from your account. Details of the request will remain in your purchase history if you need to reorder for a further fee.
::)
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If I wanted to be really picky, I would point out a spelling mistake on the "expired wills" page...
Once that date has past the item will be removed from your account..
This is what happens...computing doesn't help with grammar if 'spell check' isn't used.
Soon we will be back to days of the past, spelling how it sounds but as long as the doc. is for someone who's passed that's what matters ;D
Annie
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I have 4 wills ordered 24 July, due 8 Aug that are still outstanding. Is anyone else still waiting for an order placed then (or before)? Or is it time to start chasing?
Thanks,
Martin
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Martin, you may have to be patient :o I have received my copy wills ordered on 23 July and destined to be delivered 7 August - I actually received them on 16 August and 19 August. I'm still awaiting delivery of wills ordered on 7 August with an estimated delivery of 22 August. I think that they have been inundated with requests.
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I accept that patience is needed. I'm just wondering how far behind they are. Also, if they have been inundated, (which does seem to be the case), how many orders may have slipped through the net.
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I would guess they could be as much as a month behind, Im waiting for 2 due on the 9th August. From other forums it appears the older the will, the longer you have to wait. People who have ordered recent wills have received them.
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I have 4 wills ordered 24 July, due 8 Aug that are still outstanding. Is anyone else still waiting for an order placed then (or before)? Or is it time to start chasing?
Still waiting for a couple with the same dates as you ... have queried them and had an apology email just saying they are very busy basically.
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I accept that patience is needed. I'm just wondering how far behind they are. Also, if they have been inundated, (which does seem to be the case), how many orders may have slipped through the net.
Hopefully none as they are very quick to take the money out of your account
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I still have 3 ordered 23rd july due 7th Aug not received yet how long do we wait before querying!
patience is a virtue they say ;D
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At least I now know that there are still people waiting for similar dates to me. I guess I will give it a bit longer before chasing.
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They seem to be having a problem, anyone else getting this?...
"Sorry an error has occurred
We're sorry to say an error has occurred. This error has been logged and we will aim to resolve this as soon as possible"
Annie
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I am surprised that the GRO Systems Manager hasn't arranged for a statement to be added to the web site.
Martin
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I am surprised that the GRO Systems Manager hasn't arranged for a statement to be added to the web site.
I agree Martin!
If there was a notice to say something like...
'Due to the unexpected response to our recent offer.... we are now facing substantial delays...
Waiting time will be 6 wks rather than the original anticipated time of...'
Some things in life are too simple ::)
Annie
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Two points need to be made, I think.
(1) GRO doesn't run the wills service. Complaints to GRO will only frustrate you, and bewilder them.
(2) I have every sympathy for the Probate Search staff - those who always used to have a manageable workload and are now swamped with extra work and likely no extra staff. I haven't worked there myself, but have been put in a similar position because of 'bright ideas' from management who have no idea of what their staff actually do. And remember, those people who are expected to 'keep calm and carry on' won't have the authority to add helpful messages to the website.
DON'T COMPLAIN! Please let these busy people get on with their jobs without having to stop and apologise every few minutes. Use some common sense. The backlog will be cleared, they always are. (I speak from experience.)
Part of the problem is that we've been conditioned to expect instant results, but we're not talking about Amazon here.
Carol
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Well said, Carol :D :D :-*
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... and another well said, Carol :D
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And another one from me too....
I still have one outstanding which was due 2nd Aug.
But patience is a virtue!!!
Carol
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A well said from me too. :) . As someone has already said those ordering large numbers of wills have caused this temporary problem.
It is not as though the Probate office made a big thing of the launch of the lower price that was done by family history magazines and rootschat.
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as said patience is a virtue and my first will arrived today was due 7th Aug but at £1.50 I am happy bunny
sandie
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Good Evening,
I have ordered two wills in the past (at full price) and have been disappointed on both counts as all I got basically was the same information as in the free to view index, which put me off ordering anymore.
Was I just unlucky, are you receiving like actual inventories of estate for your relatives etc which is the kind of info I was hoping to get?
Thanks
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You have to be careful and make sure that you read what it is you are ordering.
The ones that actually contain a will say - ‘Probate’ or ‘Grant and Will’ or Admon with Will’ or ‘Grant and Will’. If it just says ‘Administration (Admon) or Grant’ it doesn't contain a will, then you get hardly any information. The ones I've ordered in the past have told me who has inherited the house and contents and money. They have also contained addresses for the heirs.
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That is very helpful, time to revisit my family interests indexes!
Thank you
Update - I have just checked one of the indexes of the two I originally purchased and it does say ‘Probate’ but all I got was basically the index info, so seems to be an element of luck what is there for some.
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the will I have just received was only 2 pages I the administration and other the will which had been written by the deceased herself and one of the witnesses turned out to be my late mother in law so that was a bonus . there was no inventory but just who should have the insurance policys and see to the funeral arrangements but it was certainly worth the £1.50
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Good Evening,
I have ordered two wills in the past (at full price) and have been disappointed on both counts as all I got basically was the same information as in the free to view index, which put me off ordering anymore.
Was I just unlucky, are you receiving like actual inventories of estate for your relatives etc which is the kind of info I was hoping to get?
Thanks
In my experience though Scottish Wills I have had copies of include an inventory, wills in England and Wales do not. The best you will get is, if its marked as Probate, is a copy of the will which may be quite complex or very simple - it all depends on what the deceased wanted it to say/ had to leave plus a copy of the grant of admin which shows who was granted administration of the estate.
I have had some E & W wills which have been enormously helpful to my research and some which just basically said I leave everything to my wife.
For £1.50 its a reasonable gamble.
My OH has carried out the Probate process a couple of times in the last few years. Though he has kept detailed accounts (and provided copies to the beneficiaries prior to settling the estate) they were not requested during the probate process, though details of the assets were, obviously, provided to HMRC as part of the assessment for Inheritance Tax.
As far as I know the assets info provided to HMRC is not part of the publically available information (though I could be wrong).
Boo
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I totally agree at £1.50 it’s a no brainer well worth the gamble. ;D
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From my own research, and from the Wills I have purchased over the years. Quite often, although not always, the most informative Wills are those of spinsters, childless widows or single men. They tend to spread their money and possessions around the family and friends.
I have found married people tend to leave their estate to a spouse and children, or for the benefit of them, very few possessions are itemised.
For example, my great grandfather's 1858 Will simply stated that his property and business, apart from household goods which he left to his second wife, should be auctioned and the money used to provide a home for his wife during her lifetime, and for the benefit of his children until they were twenty one, when they would receive it in equal shares. There was no indication of what he actually owned.
It was by pure chance that some years later I came across an advertisement for the auction, from that I discovered he owned twenty properties and who lived in them. It also described in detail his ten roomed house, the size of his business and the seven bedrooms and other rooms above it, also the land attached. Unfortunately none of it found it's way down to me. :'(
By contrast, the Will of his widowed and childless sister was very detailed, it listed items of jewellery, a painting, furniture and other items and to whom they were bequeathed, also to whom the female beneficiaries were married.
In recent times, the Wills for which I have been Executrix, would give no indication to anyone interested, the true size of the estate. I was the sole legatee in both, one was small and didn’t have to go through Probate, the other, was mostly in our joint names, so passed to me automatically and is not listed in Probate.
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From what date are these wills this price please? Can you get one for 5 years ago please?
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All wills listed on the Government website from 1858.
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From what date are these wills this price please? Can you get one for 5 years ago please?
Definitely, I got one from 18 months ago.
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Hi All,
It is now 3 weeks since I should have received my wills. What delay are you experiencing?
Best regards
Gigi
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Hiya,
5 weeks. I've decided to forget about them and then they will be a pleasant surprise to look at in those cold winter evenings.
Brie
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6 weeks and 2 days since the promised date.
They finally replied to me yesterday saying they were experiencing unprecedent demand but they confirmed they have my order(and my money!)
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Thanks Brie & Carol,
Looks like I am going to need to be a lot more patient!
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Not really surprising there are huge delays when you read on some sites that people have ordered 30+ wills at a time.
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Just the one order from me... placed on 3rd August, estimated delivery 18th August, still not arrived. Hopefully nobody misses the message saying it's ready to download, because if you don't download it within 31 days it will expire and you will have to pay for it again.
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BUT you do get a reminder e-mail about 5 days before expiry. ;)
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BUT you do get a reminder e-mail about 5 days before expiry. ;)
Good to know - thanks :)
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Hello,
On the site it says "You will have 31 days to download your copy of each will, starting from the first day that you log in to see it"
So I thought it wouldn't matter if I missed a notification as it wouldn't start the countdown until I had logged in and seen them there.
Brie
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The site also says its a new service in BETA - which it has said, to my knowledge, since January 2015 :-)
Boo
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Ordered 2. Expected Delivery 15 Sept. Received 1 yesterday and one today.
Will now go looking for more.
Carol
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Wow, that was quick! I'm still waiting for the 3 with expected delivery date 15 August :-(
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I'm still waiting for 4 due on the 8th August.
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I'm still waiting for one due 10 August. :-\
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I'm still waiting for one due 10 August. :-\
I had one before time but still waiting for the 2nd one due 2nd August.
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I have been waiting for years for some wills. Not because of delays in delivery but because the budget didn't run to it.
Am rather pleased that , though its taking a while longer than advertised, I 'will' get them for a lot less.
Boo
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Hopefully nobody misses the message saying it's ready to download, because if you don't download it within 31 days it will expire and you will have to pay for it again.
I find this a crazy idea as I'm used to SP & Scottish Wills, once paid are there to view at any time & download.
Annie
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Hopefully nobody misses the message saying it's ready to download, because if you don't download it within 31 days it will expire and you will have to pay for it again.
I find this a crazy idea as I'm used to SP & Scottish Wills, once paid are there to view at any time & download.
Annie
Well the UK system is still in BETA, so they haven't done a full scan and digitization of their wills unlike Scotland.
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anyone had any copies come through this week ?
I have still have several that were due from august 7th
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Oh yes. I have had delivery of an order I placed on 28th August.
I ordered a copy of the grant and will for a Robert Brown, of 3 Spoor Street, Dunston who died 14 Sept 1933. Probate granted to Andrew Brown, George William Brown and Robert Ernest Brown - info from the calendar
I opened the document, Grant says name, address etc as in the calendar, says the will - with two codicils, was proved and admin granted to the three names in calendar, who were named executors in the will. Grant dated 27th November 1933, Newcastle
Super!
Till I scrolled down and read the will.
This (after reading it a few times scrolling up and down as I was rather hoping my eyes were deceiving me) is a will for a Robert Brown, who when he wrote it in 1930 was living in Sheriff Hill, Gateshead, no codicils for it, None of the names of the executors in the Grant but the executor was named as George Campbell Brown , this man's son. Will was proved at Newcastle on 17th November 1933
This will, according to the calendar, belongs to Robert Brown, who died in Wooler on 13 October 1933 and his executor was indeed George Campbell Brown
So, I have a 50 % correct set of documents. Right grant, wrong will. Close but no coconut!
This would never have happened when the Probate Service did the copies, now that its in the hands of a private company (Iron Mountain), though they are cheaper, it would appear that accuracy is not high on their list - if they even understand what it is they are providing.
I have raised a query (polite but expressing my dismay).
If anyone has this other Robert Brown in their tree - shout out, I have his will going spare :-)
Boo
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I'm still waiting for 5 due on Aug. 10th or thereabout (given I placed the request on a weekend).
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So, I have a 50 % correct set of documents. Right grant, wrong will. Close but no coconut!
This would never have happened when the Probate Service did the copies, now that its in the hands of a private company (Iron Mountain), though they are cheaper, it would appear that accuracy is not high on their list - if they even understand what it is they are providing.
I have raised a query (polite but expressing my dismay).
If anyone has this other Robert Brown in their tree - shout out, I have his will going spare :-)
Boo
So frustrating! Hopefully you'll get a speedy response to your polite query. I'm still waiting for a will due on the 18th of August. Although I'm finding it a tad annoying that I'm still waiting, I'm not going to send an angry foul-mouthed email, but will still let them know I'm not happy.
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It does make you wonder what kind of order they are processing them? :-\
Clearly not first come first served and not alphabetical... MIne are B and H.
Orders placed on the 11to Aug. I haven't been waiting as some others but I am trying to resist complaining.
Jenny
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still waiting for one ordered 23rd July …...
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still waiting for one ordered 23rd July …...
You beat me - I'm waiting on 3 from 30th July.
I appreciate they're exceedingly busy and understaffed but it's taking the biscuit at this stage.
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I'm still waiting for three wills, placed 27 Jul with an Estimated delivery of the 11 Aug. :(
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I just sent another query asking if they could provide me with an updated expected delivery date. Mine were ordered on July 27th and expected Aug. 11th.
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Mine were due 9th August, but I’m not going to contact them, as the more people that do, the longer the Wills will take. They have said they have been inundated with requests - possibly they didn't realise just how keen genealogists would be. However, when I read that people have been ordering in batches of 20 or 30, it really isn’t surprising that we are having to wait.
Perhaps all they need to do is update the website, remove date expected and the sentence saying they take 10 days and put on there that it could take a couple of months or more.
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Mine were due 9th August, but I’m not going to contact them, as the more people that do, the longer the Wills will take. They have said they have been inundated with requests - possibly they didn't realise just how keen genealogists would be. However, when I read that people have been ordering in batches of 20 or 30, it really isn’t surprising that we are having to wait.
Perhaps all they need to do is update the website, remove date expected and the sentence saying they take 10 days and put on there that it could take a couple of months or more.
Hear hear Groom, I agree entirely. Mine were due on 2nd August,one came earlier ,but my 1961 grandad's one is still outstanding. Just think how much money they now have collected up front!
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Perhaps all they need to do is update the website, remove date expected and the sentence saying they take 10 days and put on there that it could take a couple of months or more.
Exactly! I don't know why they haven't put a message on the website, surely it would stop a lot of people emailing in. It wouldn't take them long to make the alteration and would probably save them the effort of replying to complaints.
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Perhaps all they need to do is update the website, remove date expected and the sentence saying they take 10 days and put on there that it could take a couple of months or more.
They have made an effort in that when I ordered a will yesterday (the first I have ordered since the price reduction) the first screen said it would take four weeks to arrive. However, when the payment was complete it then says ten days. So I think they need to marry up the parts of their site to ensure they give one consistent estimated date.
That said I will just wait for it to arrive however long it takes. I certainly won't be phoning them up delaying things further as some people do. ::)
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I am pretty sure under the old system it used to take a couple of months, so it's no great hardship to wait now.
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I am pretty sure under the old system it used to take a couple of months, so it's no great hardship to wait now.
Do you mean when it cost £10? If so, all the wills I ordered then, arrived with in a week or 10 days.
I think what is annoying a lot of people isn't so much the waiting, as being given a date and then no update of when it is likely to arrive.
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Very true. I don't mind waiting, I would just like to know how long I will be waiting for, even if that means having to let me know my request will take more time to fulfill. Personally, I find waiting six extra weeks with no update a little much to take especially when you hear of people submitting their request later than when you did and they have already received what they ordered. Makes me wonder if they are actually fulfilling the requests in the order they were received.
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I am pretty sure under the old system it used to take a couple of months, so it's no great hardship to wait now.
Do you mean when it cost £10? If so, all the wills I ordered then, arrived with in a week or 10 days.
I think what is annoying a lot of people isn't so much the waiting, as being given a date and then no update of when it is likely to arrive.
No I mean when it cost £5 and you had to order by letter ;D.
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I have put off ordering any due to the influx as the ones I want would have been way down/not on my list at original price i.e. no rush (yet)... :D
However, I'm at a loss a couple of months down the line with obvious time delays, the incompetence...
not for delays but lack of a simple message on their website e.g...
"Due to high demand, orders may take up to 12 weeks"
This would be a good window & save them hassle of constant emails as it's not just us here on RC but 1000s of others ordering from all over the world.
Why is it the simple things which save stress all round are not grasped/actioned ???
1 message to customers could save them 1000 (+) emails of queries/complaints ::)
Annie
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Hopefully nobody misses the message saying it's ready to download, because if you don't download it within 31 days it will expire and you will have to pay for it again.
I find this a crazy idea as I'm used to SP & Scottish Wills, once paid are there to view at any time & download.
Annie
Well the UK system is still in BETA, so they haven't done a full scan and digitization of their wills unlike Scotland.
Is Scotland not in the UK?
The point I'm making is, when we pay & download from SP, it's there for life to view at any time i.e. not on view for x amount of days then taken away ???
Annie
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Delays I can understand from amount of requests but why are the requests not be delivered as they are ordered not haphazardly......surely you pick up a request and go down list if one is difficult to find a simple message say we are having trouble locating this will keep trying something like that will help
I know they are now very reasonable price and so wait we will ;D
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Delays I can understand from amount of requests but why are the requests not be delivered as they are ordered not haphazardly......surely you pick up a request and go down list if one is difficult to find a simple message say we are having trouble locating this will keep trying something like that will help
I know they are now very reasonable price and so wait we will ;D
Re the haphazard delivery. I once worked in an office where everyone had in trays on their desks for their incoming post. The post clerk would put the post in the tray on the top. Unfortunately some people never sorted the stuff out in their in tray and always dealt with the item on top first even if there were things further down that had been there for days. Perhaps something similar is going on in some parts of the Wills office ::) ???
Anyway I have taken the plunge and ordered some irrespective of the possible delay on the basis if I don't do it I will forget!
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The point I'm making is, when we pay & download from SP, it's there for life to view at any time i.e. not on view for x amount of days then taken away ???
To be fair though, SP have a LOT fewer records to deal with regarding probate (the numbers are not comparable at all - even currently the total population is roughly about the same as London, never mind the rest of E & W, - and I count as 1 in Scotland <g>).
Plus, if you want to even find IF there is a will post 1925 then a trip to Edinburgh to view the Calendar of Confirmations to start your search is where they advise you to start. Not always do-able from elsewhere in Scotland, never mind the rest of the world.
Which doesn't mean I am saying that the current E & W system wasn't badly thought out or failing dismally atm, because it is.
Boo
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Ticketyboo, you're still missing my point which is having to pay for something one has already paid for to view/download in the event of losing it.
Please also read my Reply #61 regarding up-to-date wills on SP.
Annie
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Ticketyboo, you're still missing my point which is having to pay for something one has already paid for to view/download in the event of losing it.
I am not missing what you are saying, I just don't think its unreasonable to buy something from a shop (and this wills site is purely an online shop front for wills) which lets you have the same thing as many times as you like for a month - then after that, if you have mislaid it, you will need to pay again for them to re-provide it.
Okay, so SP let you re-visit the records, its a nice touch (which I have never actually used) but it doesn't mean that all sites which sell records has to.
Ireland provide their BMD records for free - an extremely nice touch but, lovely though it would be, I can't see anyone else doing that :-)
Please also read my Reply #61 regarding up-to-date wills on SP.
I hadn't but have done now, apologies for the repetition.
Boo
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At the moment, the real worry is that they have taken the money and not delivering.....
OK, it's not much but if they are operating in such a haphazard way then the fees should only be taken when the wills are being prepared.
Is the Probate office managing the fees or the 3rd party operator?
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At the moment, the real worry is that they have taken the money and not delivering.....
OK, it's not much but if they are operating in such a haphazard way then the fees should only be taken when the wills are being prepared.
Is the Probate office managing the fees or the 3rd party operator?
The payment was taken by www.gov.uk.
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At the moment, the real worry is that they have taken the money and not delivering.....
Not strictly true, is it? Yes, we've paid our money, as we would for any goods purchased on-line. And we all know that some deliveries take longer than others, even from the same supplier, don't we? :-*
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At the moment, the real worry is that they have taken the money and not delivering.....
I'm not too worried, I'm pretty sure I'll get my will eventually, once the backlog has cleared.
Totally agree with Rosinish - why on earth haven't they made some small alterations to the website explaining the delay, and altering the "estimated delivery" date so it isn't a month in the past (just over a month, in my case).
If I wasn't on rootschat, I wouldn't be aware that other people were waiting similar amounts of time for their wills, so I probably would have emailed and complained by now.
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Has anyone who's been waiting for > 6 weeks actually received their wills yet? I'm wondering if they've come to the conclusion that they've missed the SLA for those certificates and are concentrating on fulfilling new orders? (A bit like when a train is so late they let the next one overtake it rather than make them both late.)
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My orders are still showing an estimated delivery date of 14 August, so 8 weeks wait so far.
Good job it is for "interest" rather than legal reasons. :)
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I'm still waiting for two wills estimated 9 August and five estimated 11 August :-\
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Whoooopppppeeeeee
Two of my five wills estimated for the 8th August have just landed. They must be working late.
Brie
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Found in the library edition of WDYTYA
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Delays since April...how hard would it be to put a message on their website changing 10 days to 10/12 weeks & hopefully keep everyone happy as well as not having to waste time replying to those 000s of emails which would be unnecessary.
I think the missing word is Logic.
I hope nobody has ordered recently as a xmas present ;D
Annie
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The oldest I have still waiting for fulfilment are two wills from 28th July and one from 31st July, so been quite a wait. Hopefully it will be worth it
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from a blog on gov.uk website "Ordering wills
" Our supplier is bringing in a lot more resource to clear current applications and to process new requests more quickly, so things will start to improve and we’ll update our guidance about expected processing times as soon as we can be clearer about this. We’re sorry for the inconvenience and the extra frustration that this will undoubtedly cause."
Scroll down
https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/29/making-our-probate-service-simple-accessible-and-reliable-2/
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Finally received my first order which was due by 8 August only to find the Will is missing.
The Probate paper refers to a Will "( a copy whereof is hereunto annexed)" and further on "named in the said Will".
Attached is a letter saying it is a Grant of Letters of Administration as the deceased didn't make a will.
Needless to say, it doesn't surprise me. This business has been a shambles from start to finish, overseen by incompetents. And will anyone ever be held to account? I think not.
Eric.
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I am going to order Wills for two or three old people in my family who haven't died yet. It's called being prepared.
On a serious note, I believed that companies weren't allowed to charge for something until dispatch? Am I wrong in thinking that?
Martin
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I think that's a bit of a grey area, but I'm no expert. Mind you, who is these days?
I know some on-line retailers, such as Amazon, don't charge until it's ready for dispatch.
As for your early orders, fair comment. I like it!
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Finally received my first order which was due by 8 August only to find the Will is missing.
The Probate paper refers to a Will "( a copy whereof is hereunto annexed)" and further on "named in the said Will".
Attached is a letter saying it is a Grant of Letters of Administration as the deceased didn't make a will.
Needless to say, it doesn't surprise me. This business has been a shambles from start to finish, overseen by incompetents. And will anyone ever be held to account? I think not.
Eric.
Does the probate index say that there is a will or just an admin.
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ele002 - so what does the National Probate Calendar actually state for your "person"?
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The Calendar states Probate and the Probate sheet makes several references to the Will.
If it hadn't said Probate I wouldn't have bothered to order it. I naturally assumed there would be a Will and there probably is but.....
Eric
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
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I've sent my displeasure to them asking for it to be rectified so we'll see how long this takes. The order I received was 2 months overdue so it may make a nice xmas pressie.
Eric
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very disreputable if they are trying to clear the backlog by fobbing people off with this!
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I have received one today that was ordered 26th July.
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very disreputable if they are trying to clear the backlog by fobbing people off with this!
My apologies in advance - are you absolutely sure of your facts, before making such allegations :-X
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very disreputable if they are trying to clear the backlog by fobbing people off with this!
My apologies in advance - are you absolutely sure of your facts, before making such allegations :-X
Well we have two people who received orders that should have included wills but they got a covering note saying there wasn't one. We know they must have known they mucked up, and whoever is in charge might be desperate to cut corners by doing this. I am sure most people would just accept what they are told.
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I'll go away then :-X :-X
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I have received 4 records today, all ordered 24th July.
2 show that the person died intestate and have the High Court document showing who the estate went to.
The other 2 have the will included.
Now I just need to wait for the 4 that I ordered a week later.
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I received one ordered 26 July due 10 August yesterday.
Problem is that whoever scanned it wasn't paying attention and at least one page is missing because it ends mid sentence at the bottom of the second page and there is no signature/witness etc. So I've had to send them a query message asking for the rest to be provided. ::) I won't be best pleased if I have to wait another 2+ months for the rest of the Will.
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very disreputable if they are trying to clear the backlog by fobbing people off with this!
My apologies in advance - are you absolutely sure of your facts, before making such allegations :-X
There does seem to be a problem with (perhaps) either the documents have been scanned separately ( admins and wills ) and / or the people who are employed to match them don't have enough experience/training to understand what they are dealing with.
I received documents ordered 28th Aug on 18th September.
What I received was a Grant for one person of this name and a will for a person of the same name who died the same year. The probate calendar shows quite clearly that they are different people. The documents show that the executors for person 1 are totally different to the single executor for person 2.
Plus the codicils for will of person 1 do not show on the attached will (which is understanable as the will is that of a different person)
Its 50% correct but the documentation I requested (Grant and will for person 1) has not been supplied.
I sent a query the same day, 18th Sept. I had an auto response to say that they 'aimed' to reply within 2 working days.
We are now on working day 11 . . . and counting
I can live with a delay, I understand they are inundated. But this sort of error isn't within my limits of patience.
Boo
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I ordered 5 wills on July 27th, I got one today. Still waiting for the other 4.
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very strange, have received this one again today! No wonder there are such delays, they are doing repeat orders!
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Ive had one too..i wrote back and said 'please look at this again' ..i know he wrote a will
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That happened with one of mine, I got a standard letter saying it was Administration, when clearly it wasn't. I emailed them and eventually got the Will, took a while though, think it went to the bottom of the pile again, but was worth the wait.
Very strange, have received this one again today! No wonder there are such delays, they are doing repeat orders!
Doesn't sound good. Maybe they should just stop taking orders for a couple of months until they can get all orders fulfilled properly. And then consider whether the price point and assigned staff is at the correct level.
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I sincerely hope that they do not reconsider the price point. I would like it to stay at £1.50 even if that means we would have to wait. I also would prefer to be able to place my order when I want to. It is too much hassle to have to go back and try again in a few weeks time if they shut off ordering while they clear a backlog. This is a new and useful service. It will settle down once the initial rush of enthusiasm is dealt with.
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I oredered a lot, but I would not consider it panic buying. Just wanted to do it while the idea was fresh in my mind. I was prepared for the possibility that they might be struggling to meet targets. The best thing for them to do would be to adjust their projected dates so folks don’t get upset about slow delivery. Then we could all be happy about early deliveries :)
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Being of a nosey persuasion, I had a look back in my records at wills I have ordered (been using this same site since 2015)
I looked at the details of the last two wills I ordered at the previous price of £10, one in May this year and one roughly a month later in June.
The difference in the order numbers shows that they had about 4,000 orders in that month. I would hazard a guess that, like my orders, the majority would have been for a single will.
Then I looked at the difference between the order numbers of two orders placed since the price reduction. That difference between those shows they had a whopping 21,500 orders between 22nd July and 26th August. Another guess would be that a good percentage of those were for multiple will requests.
Boo
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Just ordered 3 wills - total cost £4.50 ;D ;D ;D
Oops! Forgot to say thank you to CarolA3 :-[
Well you've changed your tune - from thanks for sharing good news, to 'shooting the messenger' while admitting that you're part of the problem:
BUT - might we not be victims of the fact that someone started a RootsChat thread telling us of the price reduction. We then subsequently hear of people ordering 20-30 items - would we/they have done the same at the original cost of £10.00 per Will? I would certainly not have placed my current orders prior to that announcement. :-[
Yes, 'someone started a thread'. It was me. It was this thread. Given that you have 24 hours in which to modify your posts, you might want to tone down the dramatic 'victim' language. No-one's been injured here, for heaven's sake.
Carol
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Sorry, Carol, I wasn't getting at you because you started the thread - which we've all taken advantage of. :'( :'(
Perhaps you've overlooked my responses to your efforts, all favourable:
# 3
# 48
# 79
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It isn't just Rootschat where the news spread quickly, I'm an admin on a Facebook Genealogy group and we had several people all wanting to post the good news. I also belong to several other groups where the same information was given. So within hours of it being announced, it had spread like wildfire through the genealogy groups and everyone was ordering wills.
It's a pity that Probate service didn't realise just how popular this would be and amend their page to say that they expected long delays. It may also have been better to have limited the amount that could be ordered in one go. They did issue a statement saying that they had taken on more staff, so hopefully all the orders will be fulfilled soon.
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Groom, that's good news. Job creation. Cheered me up :)
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Please, please, claire666 (and anyone else), don't send any complaint. Reason: we don't want them to withdraw this service, do we? :-[ I see that rosie99 has already made this same comment. :)
I'm not going to. Unless it gets to October or something and I still haven't received my will!
I think I was joking when I wrote this. It's now over halfway through October and I still haven't received a will that I ordered on 3rd August.
I'm in no hurry to receive it, and I still haven't emailed to chase it up. (December maybe?) What I find more frustrating is that I placed another order on 27th September and the estimated delivery date is 12th October. No readjustment of delivery dates due to the backlog, and STILL no warning/apology message anywhere on the website.
Hopefully they'll learn from their mistakes :)
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Well even when they deliver the Wills late there is no guarantees you're going to receive the whole Will. I received one on 3 October due 10 August but it ends abruptly at the end of second page mid sentence. I messaged them via the online form on 3 October, no response. I've just sent another. The download is only available anyway until 2 November but it looks like they can't be bothered to respond to queries either.
Unfortunately I've had dealings with Iron Mountain re a different service they provide and this doesn't surprise me. ::)
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Well even when they deliver the Wills late there is no guarantees you're going to receive the whole Will. I received one on 3 October due 10 August but it ends abruptly at the end of second page mid sentence. I messaged them via the online form on 3 October, no response. I've just sent another. The download is only available anyway until 2 November but it looks like they can't be bothered to respond to queries either.
Unfortunately I've had dealings with Iron Mountain re a different service they provide and this doesn't surprise me. ::)
Well if they haven't provided what you paid for, surely that comes under the sales of goods act etc. Can you tell us what the other service they provide is :-X?
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Can you tell us what the other service they provide is :-X?
Storage and return of IT data backup tapes. Had to email them a list of which needed to be returned and on a number of occasions one or more of the wrong tapes were returned. It cost them because they had to send out another delivery the same day with the correct tapes and take the wrong ones back. This was admittedly 10-11 years ago and the service probably doesn't exist now as most organisations now back up to disk but it was very frustrating.
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Newbie here, wish I'd found this thread 10 hours earlier!
Just spent £12.50 ordering a copy of a will from an archive centre! :-[
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Newbie here, wish I'd found this thread 10 hours earlier!
Just spent £12.50 ordering a copy of a will from an archive centre! :-[
At least you'll get it quick :D ::).
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Woohoo - my first will has finally arrived, more than two months overdue! And it looks as though all the necessary parts are there.
But although it has confirmed for me when my 4xgreat-grandmother died, it has also posed some further questions. Why has she decided to leave all her money to her nephew when at least 3 of her children are still alive? I was hopeful that the will would name all of her children, so I would be able to trace two of her daughters who I have lost track of, but only the nephew is mentioned.
In her will it says "I revoke all former Wills by me herefore made". Does anyone know if this means a previous will existed, and if so how would I go about finding it?
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No it doesn't indicate that there 'was' a previous will, I believe its a sort of caveat in case if anyone did come across an earlier dated will - the later dated one would be the only valid one.
Perhaps, if her children had married they had been given money upon marriage , so had their 'share' in advance?
Boo
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Not sure whether this has already been noted.
I've just had a response from GRO regarding a will I ordered in early August. They are unable to provide a copy as there is no Folio number noted. GRO are only able to provide copies for Wills with this number.
Folio number is the hand-written number against the printed list.
EDITED: Perhaps this only applies to earlier wills, the one I had ordered was 1880. I'm now prepared not to receive the other outstanding will dated 1894.
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Hi
I hope that folio numbers are not required! I am waiting for my wills ordered beg August and I don't think any of them had the handwritten folio number on them!
Gigi
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Perhaps I've misread the attachment I received, and made an assumption because I've already received a will within the same timescale, and that had no Folio number.
Problem is I can't readily see the mistake I appear to have made in my application.
Apologies if I've mislead anyone - it wasn't intentional. :-[
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I have received a couple where it is noted on the copy of the will that there are 3 folios. Could this mean that I am missing some useful information?
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Folio numbers; if there is one (printed within the entry, or handwritten next to it) then it MUST be entered on the order form.
If there isn't one, leave that box empty. Obviously. It's in the instructions.
Btw, unless something changed in the last couple of days, I don't think GRO would be discussing applications for wills?!
Carol
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Must just be a problem with the 1880 probate (death 1872), as I've just received his widow's will for 1894. :-\
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CaroleA3, Does that mean that there are additional documents if there is a folio number?
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Folio numbers; if there is one (printed within the entry, or handwritten next to it) then it MUST be entered on the order form.
If there isn't one, leave that box empty. Obviously. It's in the instructions.
Btw, unless something changed in the last couple of days, I don't think GRO would be discussing applications for wills?!
Carol
The problem is, I don't think the Ancestry copy of the Probate indexes have the folio numbers written on them. You have to go to the probate site scans.
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Replying to Craclyn:
As far as I know, just from reading what's on the website, it's a case of 'all or nothing'.
Where there's a number, enter it, and you get it all.
Fail to enter it, and you get nothing.
Where there's no number, there's nothing to enter, but you get it all.
Carol
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Replying to melba:
I haven't looked at this on Ancestry, Can you order wills from them? Presumably not, so you'd have to use the official site anyway.
Carol
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Replying to melba:
I haven't looked at this on Ancestry, Can you order wills from them? Presumably not, so you'd have to use the official site anyway.
Carol
There is a link to the probate site to order, but no warning that the Ancestry copies do not contain the folio numbers or other annotations such as updated estate valuation. So you could easily think you have all the available data from the Ancestry copy and put in to the probate site being none the wiser that there is a folio number on the probate service's copy.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/ukprobatecal/
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Has anybody had a problem with missing folio numbers before the service was outsourced?
Just wondering if it is a get out.
Also has anyone receiving an a mail saying the folio number was missing receive a refund?
Jenny
Personally I’ve never had a problem ordering wills online before the price reduction and I’m wondering if I’m missing something here. I’m still waiting for my 2 August orders both dated after 1950.
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Has anybody had a problem with missing folio numbers before the service was outsourced?
Just wondering if it is a get out.
Also has anyone receiving an a mail saying the folio number was missing receive a refund?
Jenny
Personally I’ve never had a problem ordering wills online before the price reduction and I’m wondering if I’m missing something here. I’m still waiting for my 2 August orders both dated after 1950.
I suspect the civil service employees were more forgiving of missing folio numbers than the new outsourced company. I imagine a fairly high percentage are missing them if many family history researchers find the entry from the ancestry scans.
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Here's the order form on the official gov.uk website:
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And here's a link to the 'Folio help': https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Information/CalendarInfo?title=Folio&surname=smith&year=1900&page=10
Hope that helps.
Carol
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I don't think there's any 'funny business' going on. Repeat the search I did a few minutes ago on the proper website (i.e. not Ancestry) for surname SMITH, year 1900. Go to page 10 - a typical page chosen by me at random.
All the entries with folio numbers next to them are London cases; but not all London cases have folio numbers. Starting at the seventh entry, there are three Elizabeths in succession, all dealt with at the London registry. First and third have numbers, but second one doesn't. Why? I have no idea. But if a number is there, then it must appear on your order as I said previously.
Use the gov.uk site and you can't go wrong :)
Carol
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Had to laugh Carole....you say no funny business going on. Not much business, full stop.
On a serious note I received my first order made 24 July on 2 October. My second order for 3 made 8 days later started turning up yesterday (20 days later), then another today. Don't appear to be catching up with the backlog.
Also, my first order had the will missing and I e-mailed them next day. Had a reply today to say they would send me the full Will. That's taken them 20 days. Watch this space!
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I'll hazard a guess that the Folio numbers relate to the Death Duty Registers. It would be strengthened if they're not seen after 1903.
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Well I finally received a response to the contact form submitted on 3 Oct about the missing pages in the Will today, so they appear to have a 20 day delay in answering such messages.
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Here's the order form on the official gov.uk website:
Carol, my point was, many people are just going to go straight from Ancestry to the probate site, thinking they do not have to search and scroll through 10+ pages to get the details as they already have them. As there is no folio number on the Ancestry copy, they think there is not one. And ancestry's instructions do not say anything about their copy lacking these folio numbers.
You could be on to something about the connection to the London probate court, all those I've seen so far are probated in London (but not all London probates have folio numbers :-\).
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I'll hazard a guess that the Folio numbers relate to the Death Duty Registers. It would be strengthened if they're not seen after 1903.
No, some as late as 1922 here.
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Yesterday I received the final two wills of the five I had ordered on July 27th. Took just under 13 weeks for the full request to be delivered. I'm just glad to have them.
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Both my wills turned up this afternoon :D I have yet to download them but fingers crossed they are complete.
(ordered August 11th)
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The third & final Will of my last order....1 August....finally arrived. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to the way they are handling the orders and they certainly don't seem to be catching up with themselves.
Personally, I don't think they know how to get themselves out of the mess they've created. If they had anything about them, this situation wouldn't have happened in the first place. They would have realised that by reducing the price there was likely to be a surge in orders and would have been ready for it. If they couldn't get it right at the start I don't think we can expect them to improve things at this stage.
It would be interesting to know if the HMCTS themselves have intervened.
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Personally, I don't think they know how to get themselves out of the mess they've created. If they had anything about them, this situation wouldn't have happened in the first place. They would have realised that by reducing the price there was likely to be a surge in orders and would have been ready for it. If they couldn't get it right at the start I don't think we can expect them to improve things at this stage.
I imagine that they anticipated a surge, but underestimated how big that surge would be!
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What additional information (if any) is there for Adminstration only? Or is it a waste of £1.50 in those cases?
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Grant of admin will tell you
The name, date and place of death of the deceased
The name and address of the person to whom admin was granted
Gross and net value of the estate
Probate office which issued the grant
Date of the grant
Which, for older entries in the old printed calendars, is the info you will get from the calendar.
For more recent probate entries, (not sure when it started but think it was the 1960s?) the person to whom admin was granted isn't in the calendar results, so that may be of interest (unless it was a solicitor in which case its possibly not going to help much)
and very recent entries don't give details of where the person died or the estate value, just a name date of death, date of grant and probate office
Boo
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Grant of admin will tell you
The name, date and place of death of the deceased
The name and address of the person to whom admin was granted
Gross and net value of the estate
Probate office which issued the grant
Date of the grant
Which, for older entries in the old printed calendars, is the info you will get from the calendar.
For more recent probate entries, (not sure when it started but think it was the 1960s?) the person to whom admin was granted isn't in the calendar results, so that may be of interest (unless it was a solicitor in which case its possibly not going to help much)
and very recent entries don't give details of where the person died or the estate value, just a name date of death, date of grant and probate office
Boo
Thanks for that. Probably not worth it then, even for £1.50.
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Depends on the date, I've had a couple of grants (from more recent probate entries) that have helped just by finding out who was granted admin or confirming the deceased's address.
Boo
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Well I finally received a response to the contact form submitted on 3 Oct about the missing pages in the Will today, so they appear to have a 20 day delay in answering such messages.
I finally received the full Will yesterday via email. They only missed off the last page but it does make you wonder how/why .... ::)
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Finally received my missing Will today. I also raised it with them on 3rd October, so they seem to have some consistency there.
Also looks as though they are treating the matter of missing Wills seriously and by their standards, with some urgency.
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well 7th Aug I ordered a will
21st Oct I received a letter saying I hadn't ordered correctl info and would have to reorder and pay again if I still wanted it
straight away I sent a contact saying I had ordered as per their Probate Form
today 4th Nov they have answered apologising and will send will ASAP
fingers crossed!
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Think I'm moving further up the "longest wait" league table. ;D
Still waiting for a 30th July order. (As well as ones from 10/15/16 October.)
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They seem to be dealing with complaints quicker than the original orders. Have they taken on someone who understands the service and is capable of doing their job correctly or are they taking them seriously because they've had their 'you know whats' well and truly whupped by the Probate Service?
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This isn't addressed to anyone in particular.
Imagine you're running a business. You know how many trained staff you need to get the work done, your staff can cope with holiday cover, sick leave etc, and you're going along nicely.
Then one day, in the middle of the summer holidays (22 July for example) the business owner tells you they've reduced the price of the product by 85%. Permanently. 85% off.
Predictably, you see more orders coming in ......... and more ........ and multiples ........ five times as many as before ..............
How the hell can anyone be expected to maintain normal service levels in those circumstances?
Then the customer complaints start pouring in, slowing the process down even more ::)
Frankly I'm surprised they've got any staff left.
Carol (waiting for some overdue wills but not making a song and dance about it)
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I agree, its not the fault of staff at the level who actually deal with the influx, they are being treated unfairly if they are expected to deal with the influx with the same amount of staff or even just a small increase in staffing numbers.
This service is run by Iron Mountain, its not a small start up business tentatively working their way in growing the business, in 2018 they had a reported 4.23 BILLION dollars revenue.
This is from their website:
https://www.ironmountain.co.uk/resources/case-studies/h/hm-courts-and-tribunals-service
Based on that, you'd imagine that they would have the expertise to adequately assess the likely increase in orders and the resources to cope with an influx?
Boo
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Then one day, in the middle of the summer holidays (22 July for example) the business owner tells you they've reduced the price of the product by 85%. Permanently. 85% off.
It isn't necessarily permanent. It's for 12 months. It will then be reviewed.
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Duplicate post!
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Based on that, you'd imagine that they would have the expertise to adequately assess the likely increase in orders and the resources to cope with an influx?
Fair point, but HMCTS must have set the price and I wonder how much notice Iron Mountain were given.
Carol
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Also remember, that apparently the vast majority of Will requests before the price change were from the legal profession. They may have not realised that there was such a pent-up demand from private individuals.
I've been ordering 2 or 3 wills a month for a couple of years and the service has been excellent up to now - consistently arriving in 4 or 5 days against an expected timescale of 10. I did feel a little aggrieved that they had kept the cost at £10 given that there must have been efficiency savings against the old method of sending out photocopies by post which took about a month. Perhaps if they had staggered in a price decrease before now, they might have had a better feel for the demand
Anyway, let's hope they're building a library of pdfs that they can send out in a jiffy...
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Then one day, in the middle of the summer holidays (22 July for example) the business owner tells you they've reduced the price of the product by 85%. Permanently. 85% off.
It isn't necessarily permanent. It's for 12 months. It will then be reviewed.
Ok, not permanent initially. But if HMCTS try to restore the previous price, there'll be RootsChatters (among others) chaining themselves to railings up and down the country :o
Carol
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This isn't addressed to anyone in particular.
Carol (waiting for some overdue wills but not making a song and dance about it)
"Genealogy - The Musical" !?
Martin
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Think I'm moving further up the "longest wait" league table. ;D
Still waiting for a 30th July order. (As well as ones from 10/15/16 October.)
I assume that their 15 day estimates are hopelessly optimistic then...
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Carol. I get your point, but if you recall, a few months back, they said they were taking on more staff to get on top of the orders. Assuming they have taken on some staff, there doesn't seem to be a noticeable improvement.
As you also say, they are a BIG company, and as such they should be able to manage these ups and downs.....obviously, they haven't and either can't or won't. Remember Carillion!
Martin.....There is a Musical in the Pipeline. The Chuckle Brothers were set to front it, but sadly, that didn't come off. They've now signed up Ant & Dec.....that says it all!
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Received the last Will yesterday, "Codicil hereto" only it wasn't. Out of 8 orders, 2 have been incomplete and I have had to contact them to ask for the missing document. Seems a high percentage of errors. Perhaps the extra staff are still settling into their new jobs? Hoping the Codicil contains the beneficiary I was seeking and it will be worth the wait.
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I'm still waiting for a 30th of July order. It's not a very important one, but having waited for this long, I'm quite excited.
Martin
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I'm still waiting for a 30th of July order. It's not a very important one, but having waited for this long, I'm quite excited.
Martin
It certainly builds the tension! ;D
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I'm the first to complain when a service isn't right (Surely not! I hear you cry)
But, conversely, I also give credit where its due.
I ordered a will from the "1996 to present" section of the site on on Wednesday (6th, November, 2019, this week) and the estimated delivery date was today.
Ok I was sceptical, but fair go to them it arrived at 16.59 this afternoon. Well done!
Gives me hope for the future of this service - just hoping I live long enough for them to scan them all :-)
Boo
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Hi I wonder if anyone can advise.
It took almost 3 months to receive a 2 page download of the 1891 will I ordered but 1 page relates to a different person altogether. They share the same common Welsh name but have different addresses and DOD although the will was proved on the same day.
I’ve messaged them via the contact box and received a reply today with the same automated response about timescales for orders.
Is there any other way of getting in touch with them?
All suggestions welcome!!
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they do take a while to reply
they said one I sent was wrong on 21st oct so I replied straight away pointing out I had copied their probate but it took till 4th Nov before they sent apologising not that I have yet received the will ;D
guess its still very busy
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Thank you sandiep,
I shall sit it out!
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I'm still waiting for a 30th of July order. It's not a very important one, but having waited for this long, I'm quite excited.
Martin
It certainly builds the tension! ;D
One Will came within Target :D I'm not asking again about the other (now over 2 months).
Yes, great tension for the Staff I fear.
I once worked in Local Government (UK) and been an employee (an officer) at the blunt end of an equally credulous change, we warned our Superiors of, before being implemented!
Those local politicians who wanted the change, shout publicly how they are supposed to represent the working man and backed by Unions etc., but they had little regarding for us working council men and ladies and our Trade Union!
The continual stress month after month, into years, at the continuous pressure to clear an impossible sudden unrelenting backlog you face is Hell on Earth, the staff become exhausted and burnt out, it is not nice to see your colleague experience a break down at his desk, others becoming short tempered, one off with chronic anxiety and one dying of a heart attack and the general Office atmosphere change from pleasant to awful.
Mark
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I received a long-overdue will this week, and it was well worth the wait!
It's for one of my ancestors, who died in 1864. Three of his daughters are named on it - the will has confirmed that one of them was still unmarried at the time of her father's death (as I suspected), another one I'd been unable to locate after 1841 but the will gave me her married name, and the third daughter I'd been completely unaware of.
I'm not too bothered about the delay now. If I'd received the will on its due-date (back in August) I wouldn't have spent so much time outdoors enjoying the summer. Now we've got dark damp evenings and washed-out weekends it's the perfect time to follow up those new leads.
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I placed an order on the 5th October with an estimated delivery time of 20th October. I received it today, a month late but quicker than I was expecting after reading the posts here.
I excitedly downloaded the will only to find a standard reply stating that they were unable to provide the will as the information I had provided was inaccurate or incomplete. I have contacted them stating that the information I provided was from their scan and there was no folio number written.
Back to the waiting game again ::)
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Things are looking up - two arrived on Friday and two more yesterday (Tuesday) :D
Checking the 'Help' page of their website today, I found that it's now silent on the matter of timescales for online orders. Very sensible; otherwise I could hear my Granma saying 'Promises like piecrust, made to be broken!'.
I've also used the 'Feedback' button to make a couple of constructive (I hope) suggestions.
Carol
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they do take a while to reply
they said one I sent was wrong on 21st oct so I replied straight away pointing out I had copied their probate but it took till 4th Nov before they sent apologising not that I have yet received the will ;D
guess its still very busy
update on this is they have sent me 2 emails telling me the will I haven't received will not be available to view for last one was 1 day!! I did send a contact after first one saying I hadn't received a will but no reply yet
Now I realise the emails are just computer generated but :(
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I placed an order on the 5th October with an estimated delivery time of 20th October. I received it today, a month late but quicker than I was expecting after reading the posts here.
I excitedly downloaded the will only to find a standard reply stating that they were unable to provide the will as the information I had provided was inaccurate or incomplete. I have contacted them stating that the information I provided was from their scan and there was no folio number written.
Back to the waiting game again ::)
Update! I received this email today.
"We apologise for any inconvenience created. We are arranging to send correct requested copies to you asap. Please let us know if we can assist you in any other way."
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I applied in September and got a reply last week saying the record I wanted could not be found as it lacked a folio number. On the records of the GRO and Ancestry where the same records are there are no folio numbers. Has anyone else come across this problem? Letter attached
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In a way the Probate service made a rod for their own backs. By charging £1.50 per will it should have been anticipated that they would be swamped with orders.
I don't know if they have made any attempt to get more staff in to cope with the orders. If not, it is a case of having to wait patiently for the wills to appear.
Got to be extremely annoying though to be told that the information provided was not accurate even though what was provided was all that was available on the website. Can't provide info that is not there. ::)
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smithkei - yes, I have received that same message twice for the same will. I have since written to them via Contact us and citing the order Number. I then detailed all the information I had submitted - name, date of death, date of probate, probate office and NO FOLIO number and I added the year and page number. I am now told that they have found the will. :D :D
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Thanks. That is encouraging. I too have written but no reply yet. Fingers crossed.