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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:06 BST (UK)

Title: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:06 BST (UK)
Someone called Monica advised that I post this here.

Hi, so this photo was found in the collection belonging to my grandad Alexander Mckay Munro (b.1921 in Lanark and d.2008 in Worcestershire, England). Having studied all the photos in his collection all but this one can pretty much be identified as where and when they were taken and who the people are in them.  However, with this one the most likely conclusion is that the man stood on the back row 4th from left is actually my 3rd great-grandad Mackay (John) Munro who was born on the north coast of Sutherland in 1812, moved to and married in Kirkcaldy in 1856 aged 44, fathered 7 children and died in 1875 aged 63 in Kinghorn (although Mornigside is also mentioned on the death certificate and the age on his death certificate is incorrect because his wife was 20 years younger than him and could be the woman stood next to him 3rd from left). I know this is a long shot but here is some information from Wikipedia about the history of Scottish photography: By 1843 the Edinburgh Calotype Club had been formed, probably the world's first photographic club. The club dissolved in the mid-1850s as new processes appeared, such as the albumen print and wet collodion process. The Glasgow Photographic Society was founded in 1855 (20 years before Mackay John Munro died), The Photographic Society of Scotland formed in 1856 (the year Mackay John Munro married) and the Edinburgh Photographic Society in 1861. The tall man stood second from right on the back row may have been a boxer given that he is holding his fist up. The occasion appears to be a wedding given that there is a cake in the middle, but whose wedding is not known. This forum has always been very helpful to me and I was just wondering if someone out there could identify when or where this photo was taken, or anyone in it ? The women's clothes in particular seem to be from a certain era.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: DavidG02 on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:40 BST (UK)
The woman to the far left , front, has a hairstyle similar to my GGrandmother from around the 1910s

I have no great idea but the clothing felt to be after 1900 (happy to be extremely wrong) but the hairstyle and clothes make me look at that time

Though thinking and looking more I could go back to 1880s. Maybe it took a while for fashion to reach Australia
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Little Nell on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:45 BST (UK)
I think the style of clothes is wrong for pre 1875.  They look like post 1900 to me.

Also I don't think it is a wedding - no big hats!  Some other celebration maybe - a birthday?

Nell
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:50 BST (UK)
I think this  looks Edwardian, as Nell has said.  This means that the gentleman isn't your 3 x grandfather.

Gadget

Added - the cake suggests it could be a wedding anniversary or a birthday party.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 21:53 BST (UK)
Well, thanks for your help all. One other possibility is that the man standing 4th from left back row was my 2nd great grandad, Alexander Munro who was born in 1859 in Kirkcaldy and died in 1938 in Aberdeen. I will post two confirmed photos of him. He is sat down far right in the second photo.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:00 BST (UK)
For comparison.  It does look like your 2x

Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:02 BST (UK)
For comparison.  It does look like your 2x

Hey, thanks very much for that. Maybe he is older in the photo that is being questioned ? He also seems to have his eyes almost closed in it and the small chin kind of matches up.

Another question, if it is my 2nd great, then would the woman stood next to him 3rd from left in the first photo be his wife, the same woman in the other two photos I posted (sat down on far left in 2nd one)
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:14 BST (UK)
Possibly a retirement celebration, there's not much in the way of smiles, very formal?

Annie
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:20 BST (UK)
Possibly a retirement celebration, there's not much in the way of smiles, very formal?

Annie

Certainly possible. Alexander Munro (1859-1938) was a linen factory inspector but also owned properties and had tenants. My guess is that the first of second two photos that I posted that shows him with his children is in about 1910 because his son (my great-grandad) John Mckay Munro who is stood behind him looks about 20 years old and was born in 1890. So it would seem that the first photo posted which seems to show Alexander Munro older, could therefore be maybe 1920-1930 ish.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:27 BST (UK)

sorry - no way is the first photo 1920-30. 
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:37 BST (UK)
I agree with Gadget, the fashions would be very different in 1920/30
Carol
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Creasegirl on Tuesday 16 July 19 22:41 BST (UK)
First photo around 1905 to 1908 as younger girls wearing pigeon fronted style blouses. 
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Tuesday 16 July 19 23:06 BST (UK)
Well in that case I don't think the man in it can be my 2nd great grandad Alexander Munro because he looks older in it than in the second two photos which I am pretty sure are later, would you agree ?
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Creasegirl on Tuesday 16 July 19 23:26 BST (UK)
I think the second family photo taken around 1912
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 17 July 19 07:41 BST (UK)
For comparison.  It does look like your 2x

Middle man Reply 5 has a different skull.

Human skull shape is finally developed by 20 to early 20s.

The two men in the three photos are older than this.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Wednesday 17 July 19 09:22 BST (UK)
For comparison.  It does look like your 2x

Middle man Reply 5 has a different skull.

Human skull shape is finally developed by 20 to early 20s.

The two men in the three photos are older than this.

That's actually what I was thinking, a different shaped skull. My 2nd great grandad Alexander Munro (1859-1938) who is shown in the other two photos did have a younger brother called Hugh Munro (1870-1945), so maybe its him.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 17 July 19 10:05 BST (UK)
It's difficult to compare full and 3/4 faces. However, I've cut the middle face in half and overlaid the relevant side on the other two.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Wednesday 17 July 19 17:16 BST (UK)
It's difficult to compare full and 3/4 faces. However, I've cut the middle face in half and overlaid the relevant side on the other two.

Well that is very clever, I can't ask for much more than that. The problem I have is that the photo that most people think is the earliest here, seems to be the one where he looks oldest.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 17 July 19 17:20 BST (UK)
I think it's the difference between outside light and studio light.  Actually, I think he looks older in the later ones. Also, he has a longer beard in the later ones and looks more 'spruced up'  :)

When did they marry?
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Wednesday 17 July 19 17:25 BST (UK)
I think it's the difference between outside light and studio light.  Actually, I think he looks older in the later ones. Also, he has a longer beard in the later ones and looks more 'spruced up'  :)

When did they marry?

They married in 1885 and his wife's name was Agnes Kerr.
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 17 July 19 20:09 BST (UK)
I thought it might have been a wedding anniversary - 25th or 30th, maybe.

(This is a comment about the second photos)
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Wednesday 17 July 19 20:16 BST (UK)
I thought it might have been a wedding anniversary - 25th or 30th, maybe.

(This is a comment about the second photos)
Could possibly be. All the family members who would have known have died. I was just wondering if any of you could make a judgement on the old man's height. In the first photo posted he stands taller than all of the woman and the other man standing on the back row I think could have been an exceptionally tall person for his time especially as he his holding his fist up which makes me think he could be a boxer. People were on average shorter in those days. His son, my great-grandad John Mckay Munro, I know was only 5 ft 8 and a half inches as per his military record. I am not sure what the average height for a man was back then ?

Update: according to this the average height of British men in 1870 was just 5 feet 5 inches: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23896855
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: BushInn1746 on Thursday 18 July 19 08:38 BST (UK)
Hello

Have a look at the initial post photo again, has the Munro poster come to any conclusion as to why the arrow on the bottom boarder is pointing upward, apparently to a seated man in the first row.

Was the arrow already there when you found the photo?

Mark
Title: Re: Photo believed to have been taken in Fife mid-late 19th century
Post by: Munro84 on Thursday 18 July 19 14:22 BST (UK)
Hello

Have a look at the initial post photo again, has the Munro poster come to any conclusion as to why the arrow on the bottom boarder is pointing upward, apparently to a seated man in the first row.

Was the arrow already there when you found the photo?

Mark

Hi, my auntie drew it on there and wrote on the back who we thought it might be. But we now know it is not the person we thought it was. We thought it might be a man called Bob Dickson who is stood in the second family photo with the moustache. But it is clearly not him. Bob was married to a daughter of the old man. Just wondering if in the first photo any of the women are the old man's sisters. He had four sisters, one older and three younger. Who knows ! :-)😁