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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Michael ONeil on Monday 24 June 19 13:21 BST (UK)
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Hi folks,
I'm trying to find out about the Civil War service of a Patrick F. O’Neil. He was born 28 Jan 1844 in Ireland and he died 17 Jun 1918 in Akron, Ohio. He lived in New York City prior to moving to Akron in 1880 so I suspect his service would have a New York connection. I've checked all the military files on Ancestry and Fold3.
His obit states: "When the Civil War broke out he and two brothers enlisted. The other two boys were killed during the great struggle but Patrick O'Neil fought all the way through, serving most of the time under General Thomas, and taking part in the battles around Nashville and the campaigns west of the mountains."
To me that seems to imply that the branch of service was the army?
He's buried at St Vincent's in Akron and the cemetery inscriptions info from there says US veteran marker is present but there's no more info. Someone suggested this might refer to a GAR marker but I can't find out anymore. I have an image of his headstone and there's nothing there either.
At Ancestry in the Ohio, Soldier Grave Registrations, 1804-1958 it says F. Company, St Vincent's Roster so I was wondering if anyone knows if there are any Ohio GAR records that might contain more info. I don't see anything here http://www.garrecords.org/.
Can anyone help me out with this?
Michael O'Neil, Liverpool, UK.
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it says F. Company, St Vincent's Roster
Not sure about that. St Vincents is the cemetery. These records are from index cards at the Summit County library. The original image shows no unit and no serial number: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89LS-Y36K?i=787&cc=1879059
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Cheers Shaun - I know and that's the annoying thing. It says only F. Company, St Vincent's Roster but nothing about regimental Civil War info. As I said someone mentioned the info might refer to GAR hence my post.
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It says only F. Company, St Vincent's Roster
It doesn't say quite say that. As you can see from the image, there is no company given - there is just a dash against that question.
"F. St Vincents roster" at the bottom of the card is presumably the source of the information on the card. Looking at adjacent cards, they all have some similar annotation.
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comparing these two pages, it looks like Company F of the 19th Ohio Infantry fought in the same places as General Thomas. And came from Northern Ohio, I think.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Henry_Thomas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_Ohio_Infantry
I really don't know a regiment from a company from a battalion, etc., so you are on your own. But there is a lot of Civil War websites and you should eventually the right combination of search words to track down the unit Patrick fought in and where they fought.
Funny he didn't file for a pension?
and a tree at ancestry says, with no source, that he was born in Clonakilty, Cork.
he doesn't show up here
https://www.ogs.org/research/results_ohcwss.php
or here
https://www.nps.gov/civilwar/search-soldiers.htm#sort=score+desc&q=oneill
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The Official Roster of the Soldiers of the State of Ohio in the War of the Rebellion 1861-1865 might be a useful resource
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000454243
https://archive.org/details/ohiowarroster03howerich/page/n5
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Thanks Sean and OldOhio.
The tree at Ancestry could well be mine and he was born Cashelisky but baptised Clonakilty - that's 100% sure. I've used tons of CW sources and it's always been a case of too many Patrick O'Neils to rule out/in and none with any sort of crib that I could say yes for certain.
As I said in my original post, Patrick was New York City based until he moved to Akron in 1880 so I'm inclined to think that if he did serve then whatever branch of service would have a NY connection? I've gone through all the NY army rosters and checked as many navy files as available.
His brother John died June 1862 - 2nd class fireman aboard the USS Port Royal. I know for a fact that the obit is wrong in that only the one brother (John) perished - I have a full pension file for John - 120-odd pages of genealogical gold. As for who the other brother is who enlisted then so far my research points to a Peter though again I can't find anything certain for him. The brothers' father died in July 1865 in NYC and at the reading of the probate the rest of the family are listed with addresses given in NYC except Peter. His is given as Charleston but this has been crossed out and replaced with Undetermined. Possibly he was last known of as being in Charleston (possibly serving) and had not made it back to NYC yet? Given the rest of the family (Patrick and another brother Michael apart in 1880) never left NYC then I can't think of another reason why Peter would have been in Charleston.
Anyhow coming back to my original posting for info about Patrick, I've used Ohio records only post 1880 and have all the Summit County Veterans Schedule pages and he doesn't appear there either - this did surprise me. And no I couldn't find any pension application either so I kept hitting brick walls.
I had an earlier lead in the St Vincent's burial info which says a Civil War Marker is present. This info was taken from transcriptions made in 1959 and 2002 but there is nothing at the gravesite. The headstone is not an upright type, is not a Veterans headstone but is a simple one set into the floor - states simply name and year born/died. The soldier grave registrations at Ancestry appeared to give me a bit more info namely the F company St Vincent's roster lead and as I said someone suggested it could have been a GAR marker - a star in a spike I think they were. Anyhow I was hoping to find out if there were any Ohio GAR records that might have something about the St Vincent's roster that could lead me to an actual branch of service and/or a regiment.
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Sorry - I missed the bit about New York !
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The O'Neils had a very successful department store in Akron. I found the snippet of Patrick's obit which might provide more info, if someone has access to the Akron Beacon Journal: 17 Jun 1918, page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=%22Patrick+O%27Neil%22&t=4267,4750,1357&p_place=OH
Sorry, missed the obit reference above.
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Sorry - I missed the bit about New York !
me too.
I thought if he was born 1844 he could have been in the Army in Ohio by then. Didn't know you had so much tying the family to NY until later. I'll take a look in NY if I get a chance, though if you have been through the pension records, I don't expect much.
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I'm not finding anything. I always thought the GAR was another name for the Union Army, but it looks like it was an organization formed after the Civil War to which ex-Union soldiers could belong if they wanted to. So it is something Patrick would have joined, either in New York or Akron, or both.
I didn't find a St Vincent's GAR post in New York or Ohio.
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The card before Patrick's in the database at familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89LS-Y36K?i=787&cc=1879059
is for a man who is also buried in St Vincent's Cemetery. His card specifically says he did get a GAR marker. So did Patrick really get a marker? Why isn't it mentioned? If it is on a spike, which I seem to remember, wouldn't it be visible in the headstone picture? or wouldn't the photographer have included it in the photo?
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His obit says he served under General Thomas in battles in Tennessee and west of the mountains. You could look for New York army units who were involved in those battles. That is the only lead I can think of at this point.
But I wonder if NY units were sent that far west. There was enough going on closer to home to keep them occupied.
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Hi folks - cheers for the replies - apologies for the delay in getting back but I'm in the UK so time difference and all that.
I've got no proper knowledge about the GAR markers other than they appear to be a star on a spike - did they stay in the graves all the time, did family members keep them, did people steal them??? The card in the link does appear to be referring to some sort of upright marker and can't be referring to his actual headstone which is flat. I manage a few findagrave memorials for the whole family which are linked and here is Patrick's:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/60738711/patrick-f_-o_neil
There's no marker present but I'm convinced it must have been GAR and that F. Company, St Vincent's Roster is to do with him being a member of the GAR and that ultimately if any records exist for this they will lead me to an actual regiment.
I've gone through to the best of my ability, not being an expert as to the minute details of battle formations, army groups, etc, etc as much online info as I could find and if I remember correctly (I haven't got my notes in front of me) there were less than 10 NY regiments in total involved. I've got pdfs of the rosters for every NY regiment - infantry, calvary and artillery and I went through them for Patricks and there wasn't anything close in age. He would have been 17 in 1861, 18 in 1862 so no need to lie about his age and plenty of ages given as a lot older. Others either died, deserted or were POWs by the time of the Nashville campaigns - in short no likely candidates.
I have sometimes explored the idea that the obit is made up as far as civil war service was concerned. It's certainly wrong in that only one brother perished plus it was written by his brother Michael who at this time was a leading commercial dignitary in Akron and he would have been flattering about his brother. He would definitely have known that only one of his brothers died. There were 6 brothers in total. Peter (1836-1882), Felix (1839-1880), John (1842-1862), Patrick (1844-1918), James (1846-1906) and Michael (1850-1927). Peter is the most likely other brother to serve (if the info is correct) and he appears twice in the NYC drafts. Felix appears to have paid a substitute and is listed in all the NYC directories during the Civil War. His obit says he was in Company I of the 12th Regiment N.G.S.N.Y. Dowley's History and Honorary Roll (1869) lists him as a Corporal of I Company with date of warrant given as 27-08-1867. This date is post Civil War and I can't find any evidence he served during 1861-1865 in any of the muster rolls - I did find some short term ones for this regiment. James and Michael were too young and never served.
Maybe Patrick himself faked a history about himself after arriving in Akron either about his service if at at all, or hiding a record of desertion or similar, either with Michael's collusion or not? This might explain his absence from the 1890 Vets Schedule? Surely though if he had then he would soon have been caught out by other vets? Anyhow that's a totally different and very cynical set of thoughts.
So it's GAR???
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"did they stay in the graves all the time, did family members keep them, did people steal them???"
all of the above. plus cemeteries probably pulled them out of the ground to make maintaining the cemetery easier, mowing the lawn, etc. More so recently, not so much in times past.
"I have sometimes explored the idea that the obit is made up as far as civil war service was concerned."
I wondered myself about that, but didn't want to say anything.
"There's no marker present but I'm convinced it must have been GAR and that F. Company, St Vincent's Roster"
Since St Vincent's is the name of the cemetery, maybe he didn't belong to a local GAR post but they put a marker on his grave since he had been in the army? and kept track of it by calling it the St Vincent's Roster? Anyway, I think it points to an Akron connection to the GAR.
back to the markers,
"I've got no proper knowledge about the GAR markers other than they appear to be a star on a spike"
yes that's what they were. I thought they were a disk on a spike but no. Very interesting discussion here:
https://myauctionfinds.com/2013/04/09/g-a-r-grave-markers-of-union-soldiers/
and apparently people do sell them. I Googled 'GAR grave marker' and the second suggestion Google offered was ' ... for sale'
Seems pretty cold and mercenary.
Here's one on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/p/Grand-Army-of-The-Republic-Grave-Marker/1319402403?iid=123365733132
and one on etsy:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nz2/
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Right I've fired off a request to the contact here to see if they could point me in the right direction or advise if records might exist about St Vincent's Roster:
http://www.garrecords.org/
I'll post if I get a reply.
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there were less than 10 NY regiments in total involved. I've got pdfs of the rosters for every NY regiment - infantry, calvary and artillery
NY Volunteers:
https://dmna.ny.gov/historic/reghist/civil/rosters/rosters.htm
Infantry: (195 regiments listed)
https://dmna.ny.gov/historic/reghist/civil/rosters/rostersinfantry.htm
The 88th NY Volunteers was nicknamed "The Irish Brigade". I thought he might be a member of that one, but I didn't see a fit in the roster.
Also, General George Henry Thomas became one three generals of "The Army of the Cumberland". He eventually replaced General Rosecrans as commander.
https://www.essentialcivilwarcurriculum.com/army-of-the-cumberland.html
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http://www.ohiocivilwar.com/gar.html
Summit County, Ohio GAR Posts
Buckley Post 12 --- Akron
Eadie Post (37) --- Cuyahoga Falls
Gen. Sherman Post (68) --- Hudson
A.N. Goldwood Post 104 --- West Richfield
R.W. Hall Post 218 --- Mogadore
M.M. Dickson Post 260 --- Barberton
M.M. Dixon Post (267) --- Barberton
Geo. L. Waterman Post 272 --- Peninsula
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You might try the "Ask a Librarian" at the Summit County Library if they have anything on the records/membership of Buckley Post No. 12, G.A.R.
https://akronlibrary.org/
https://akronlibrary.org/about/contact/chat
You might also ask if they have a family genealogy book on the M(ichael) O'Neil family.
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Hi folks.
Received a very helpful reply about this - not the news I wanted to hear but a nice reply all told.
I checked the “memorial roll” of the GAR for Ohio, published in 1919. It lists all reported deaths of Ohio GAR members for calendar year 1918. Patrick O’Neil wasn’t listed. I also read the obituary, and since membership in the GAR wasn’t mentioned, I think it’s reasonable to believe he was not a member of the GAR (at least at the time of his death).
So back to square one.
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Thank you for letting everyone know how it turned out.