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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Mark Saxon on Sunday 16 June 19 14:38 BST (UK)
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Hi there, I have received my Grandmother's birth certificate and need a bit of help.
I knew she was an orphan and suspected I would not get very far but there are some tantalizing clues!
My Grandmother Mary Alice Roughley was born in New Bridge workhouse on 18/3/1895. I understand the workhouse by this time was more of a pauper's hospital.
Her mother is shown as:
Mary Jane Rughley or Rughfly a cotton factory operative of 5 Southern Street.
The birth was registered by the workhouse master. there is no father listed.
I did some research and I see an admission around this date for a lady of this name with a birth in 1861. Despite this I cannot find any trace of Mary Jane under any variation of the surname.
Mary Alice went on to Manchester Industrial School for girls and ended up in Sale Cheshire before later marrying my Grandfather in Eccles in 1923. I have the marriage certificate but no further clues there. I also see a death for a Mary Jane Roughly in 1902 with a burial in Manchester Cemetery which sort of ties in with her daughter ending up in the Manchester Industrial School.
My Grandmother appears to come from Salford but i am not sure if 5 Southern Street was the one near Victoria Station or the one in Salford. When they married my Grandfather lived in Liverpool Road Patricroft.
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Hi welcome to rootschat :).
Have you found Mary Alice or Mary Ann in 1901? Does the industrial school entry say where she was admitted from?
Maybe the surname is an interpretation of the Irish name Rahilly?
ADDED: If you can afford it I suggest you get the 1902 death certifcate [£7 for a .pdf from GRO.gov.uk] which will show address at death.
ROUGHLEY, MARY JANE 44
GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 7
so born ca 1857/58
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I have not been able to find Mary Jane in 1901 or any year back to 1861. Well not at least with any certainty that it is her family.
I cannot see the admission date for Mary Alice to the Industrial School. It just says school enrollment 1901. (1883-1904) I do not have access to the full records.
In 1911 it says born 1895 Salford.
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The admission register is on findmypast.
No 685 Mary Alice Roughley 6 yr 10 mo, dob Mar 18 1895, admitted Dec 23 1901, detained under Sect 14 Ind Sch Act, sent by Salford School Board, detention till 16 yrs, previous character good, CoE, illegitimate.
Mother Mary Jane Roughley, profession [sorry] prostitute, character bad, no settled home but Mrs J Holt [?] of 71 Monmouth St, Stafford Rd, Salford is not the guardian.
ADDED: 1901 census RG13 Piece 3738 Folio 28 Page 8 @ 71 Monmouth St - Samuel & Jane HOLT have 8 boarders but not Mary Ann & Mary Alice.
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Oh that's great thank you!
No need apologize it is the oldest profession in the world. :D
Thanks for that I should have mentioned on the marriage certificate that my Grand Mother gave her address as 41 Blantyre Street Winton. I see this is the next town to Patricroft. So it would appear she moved back to Manchester after she was "released" from the Industrial School.
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If you pm me with your email address [click on text icon under my name] I can send you the image. Still trying to find them on 1901 but maybe Mary Ann eluded the enumerator! She may have been working that night but Mary Alice must be somewhere!
Also somewhere if still extant must be Mary Alice's school admission entry by Salford School Board which may give an address.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F108977
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a?_ref=129
Maybe contact to see what records they may have?
Salford Museum and Art Gallery
Peel Park
The Crescent
Salford M5 4WU
Telephone: 0161 778 0814
Email: local.history@scll.co.uk
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Manchester Evening News 3 May 1897 :
Brutal Assault in Salford
At Salford Police Court today a rough looking fellow named Robert McDonald , a labourer, was charged with violently assaulting Mary Jane Ruffley. Prisoner and the injured woman lived together as man and wife at 71 Monmouth Street, Ordsal Lane. On Saturday night the prisoner went home drunk and asked the woman for some money . She would not give him any . He then gave her a penny and told her to go and buy the child an orange. She did so and was in the act of giving it to the child when he struck her a violent blow on the head with a hammer. She was taken to the Royal Hospital where her wounds were dressed . She gave her evidence reluctantly and said the prisoner would not have done it but for the drink. He had been drinking for 3 weeks and was sentenced to 2 months hard labour.
" The child " is presumably Mary Alice.
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Press notice may be relevant
Manchester Evening News September 24, 1901
Idle and Drunken Mother Salford
An unfortunate named Mary Jane Roughley, who is also known by several other names, was charged in the Police Court today was charged with neglecting her child on the 10th inst. NSPCC, police and neighbours gave notice that the prisoner was idle, disordely and drunken. She repeatedly left the child on the streets and on the 10th inst, it was found to be poorly clad and in a filthy condition. Roughley had nothing to say in her defence and was sent to prison for three months
Kay
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Press notice may be relevant
Manchester Evening News September 24, 1901
Idle and Drunken Mother Salford
An unfortunate named Mary Jane Roughley, who is also known by several other names, was charged in the Police Court today was charged with neglecting her child on the 10th inst. NSPCC, police and neighbours gave notice that the prisoner was idle, disordely and drunken. She repeatedly left the child on the streets and on the 10th inst, it was found to be poorly clad and in a filthy condition. Roughley had nothing to say in her defence and was sent to prison for three months
Kay
There are records for a "Mary Roughley , see Johnson , Mary Jane Roughley , alias Flynn " born 1862 who was sent to Strangeways Prison 12/6/1890/ for larceny and due for release 11/9/91 ( she had 15 previous convictions. I think she is on the 1891 census here:
RG12 3266 78 38
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Well that is fascinating.
Maybe she turned to prostitution after he was put away?
If indeed these are my Great Grandmother.
The second one in 1901 looks very likely as the daughter was admitted to the school just as she was being released after her 3 month stretch. Did children go prison with their parents back then?
I like the way he gets 2 months for assault and she gets 3 months for drunk and disorderly. I suppose there was the neglect bit as well. :D
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Might this be my Mary Jane Roughley??
B1859 Manchester Parents James Roughley B1833 and mother Frances Quinn B1836.
Her trail seems to go cold after 1871.
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Following on from the information that she used an alias Flynn I see there is a Sarah Flinn B1882 to Thomas Flinn and Mary Jane Roughley in Salford ! Ill go and see what became of them now.
Can anybody please help with Mary Jane Roughley's admission to the New Bridge Workhouse in March 1895? I am sure I saw a record somewhere which said her birth year was 1861. She and Mary Alice actually have the surname RUGHFLY on these records. This is also the surname on Mary Alice's birth certificate.
This is all really helpful and thank you all so much for the time you have spent to assist.
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The admission is on FindMyPast and Mary J's birth year is listed as 1861
Kay
Added On the GRO Birth Index
SARAH ANN FLYNN mothers maiden name RAUGHLEY
GRO Ref: 1882 Sept Qrter SALFORD Vol 08D Page 164
On Lancshire Parish Clerks Online
Baptism: 16 Aug 1882 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire
Sarah Roughley - [Child] of Thomas Flinn & Mary Jane Roughley
Born: 8 Aug 1882
Abode: 81 Franklin Street
Occupation: Dyer
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I haven't seen FMPs Manchester Industrial school records but I did get my grandmas (there in 1901) from Manchester Central library. In addition to Admission they note her conduct and where she was discharged to age 16 ie employer and address. They kept tabs on her till age 21, noting she made a good marriage.
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So Sarah Roughley/Flynn is probably a new great aunt you didn't know of?
ADDED: 1891 - May be at Poor Law School, Holly Mount, Tottington Lower End, Bury Lancs
RG12; Piece: 3129; Folio: 128; Page: 2
Sarah Flynn 9 born Salford
ADDED 2: For the back burner
1881 @ 81 West Union St Salford
Thomas Flynn unm lodger 26 b Salford cotton dyer
RG11 Piece 3965 Folio 97 Page 7
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Paid my £7 and got the death certificate for a Mary Jane Roughley who died in 1902.
Not sure it helps to pin her down but it does say................
Age 44 so born about 1858.
Died 12/7/1902 at the Sanatorium Pendleton Salford.
Doubler in Cotton Mill of 31 St Stephen Street Salford.
Informant: James Roughley Brother of 107 Bradford Road Manchester.
Can anybody please confirm this is James Roughley B1864 who married Mary Hannah Haslam in 1884?
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Again it doesn't help but in 1901 at 31 St Stephens Street Salford lived Thomas Carruthers boot repairer 24, wife Maud 21 & daughters Batrice 2 & Jessie 3 mo, all born Salford
RG13 3728 119 6
Possibly this marriage so not related to Mary Jane
Marriages Mar 1898
CARRUTHERS Thomas Purves Salford 8d 184
CASDAGLI Theodore Salford 8d 184
RALLI Catherine Salford 8d 184
Sherwin Eliza Maud Salford 8d 184
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On studying it again it more likely to be be 37 St Stephen Street or even possibly 32. ???
Died of Enteric Fever (Typhoid) >:(
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37 has
Rose Smith Head Married Female 33 Monthly Nurse Ireland
Kate Smith Daughter Single Female 15 Liverpool
Mary Smith Daughter - Female 12 Liverpool
Elizabeth Smith Daughter - Female 9 Salford
Ellen Smith Daughter - Female 7 Salford
Alice Smith Daughter - Female 3 Salford
Josephine Smith Daughter - Female 0 Salford
Nos 42 - 72 are on piece 3731, cannot yet find piece number for 32 [not 3730 or 3729 as I've checked the enumerator's walk for those 2].
Shame that as this is a look up board you can't post a snippet with the address for us to see.
ADDED: This is probably her burial
Mary Jane Roughley
Death Date: Jul 1902
Manchester General Cemetery
From findagrave:
PLOT Non Conformist Section 1774
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Mark sent me the image of the death certificate & in my opinion it is 37 St Stephens Road.
1901 107 Bradford Road Manchester has
Eleanor Whalley Head Widow Female 46 Cotton Cop Winder Heaton Park,
Violet Whalley Daughter Single Female 26 Cotton Cop Winder Manchester
Albert Whalley Son Single Male 13 Office Boy Manchester
Eleanor Whalley Daughter Single Female 12 Manchester
Alice Whalley Daughter Single Female 10 Manchester
RG13/3743/108/7
but there are 4 Bradford Roads in my Manchester street atlas.
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Informant: James Roughley Brother of 107 Bradford Road Manchester.
Can anybody please confirm this is James Roughley B1864 who married Mary Hannah Haslam in 1884?
That James had father James & was born ca 1863
Name: James Roughley
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Birth Date: 1863
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1884
Marriage Place: St. George's Church, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Father: James Roughley
Spouse: Mary Hannah Haslam
Don't know Mary Jane's parents....
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If this is the James Roughley (informant brother) then I can see he has a sister Mary Jane B.1858.
Their parents were James Roughley B.1832 and mother Frances Quinn B.1836 died 1876.
It makes sense as this Mary Jane disappears after her father re-married in 1879. Perhaps the parents "got rid of her" or she just left home and took up with Thomas Flynn.
I would just like to be sure this is James Roughley of 107 Bradford Road.
The only other thing that concerns me with this match is that she is said to have been born in 1861 when she gave birth to Mary Alice in 1895.
Going back to the 1901 bit with 71 Monmouth St. and Mrs J Holt.
I would think this was the informant of the child abuse and therefore was not the guardian. She may have known the mother and child from the local area or even had them as lodgers at some point.