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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => Topic started by: sooty tern on Sunday 16 June 19 13:02 BST (UK)

Title: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: sooty tern on Sunday 16 June 19 13:02 BST (UK)
My great grandfather John Laycock Bland married Louisa Feneley Johnson in 1894 at the Primitive Methodist Chapel in Hawle Street, which I believe was in central Hull but is not listed today. Her father William Johnson was a strict Methodist and owner of William Johnson & Co. of Neptune Street, Hull, a tinplate and iron plate manufacturer of ventilation cowls and tanks. I think he later moved to Withernsea. Can anyone tell me where Hawle Street was, and throw any light on William's company? Any snippet gratefully received!
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 16 June 19 13:58 BST (UK)
Might be something here. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Hull/HullStreets

I'll see what else I can find

There is the 1891 census street index, but I see nothing for Hawle st..
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Hull_Registration_District,_1891_Census_Street_Index_G-I
nor in Sculcoates 1891.
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Sculcoates_Registration_District,_1891_Census_Street_Index_G-I

https://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/content/place-2/yorkshire-2/i-p-yorkshire-2/records_associated_with_primitive_methodist_chapels_in_and_around_hull

https://www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/search?st%5B%5D=hull&css_searchfield%5B%5D=text&fq=

Scratching my head a bit here. Hull history centre may be worth contacting if we get no further here
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 16 June 19 15:08 BST (UK)
Are you absolutely sure it was "Hawle Street"?

Google is throwing up anything at all!
Also tried Hawley Street, but no joy there either.
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 16 June 19 15:48 BST (UK)
Hi and welcome to Rootschat...I grew up in Hull but haven't heard of that street, this might help:

Link Removed

Apologies...Pauline has already mentioned the link in her post.

Carol
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 16 June 19 16:02 BST (UK)
Here is an entry in the 1892 Hull Trades and Professions Directory for William Johnson in Neptune Street:

www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ERY/Hull/HullStreets/Hull1892StreetsN

Carol
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 16 June 19 16:35 BST (UK)
At the time of the 1891 Census they were living on Hessle Road:

William   Johnson   Head   Married Male   47   1844   Tin Smith   Lincolnshire, England
Sarah Ann   Johnson   Wife   Married Female   47   1844   -   Yorkshire, England
Louisa F   Johnson   Daughter   Single Female   24   1867   Music Teacher   Yorkshire, England
George   Johnson   Son   Single Male 18   1873   Tinners Apprentice   Yorkshire, England
William   Johnson   Son   Single Male 16   1875   Tinners Apprentice   Yorkshire, England
Florence   Johnson   Daughter   Single Female   13   1878   Scholar   Yorkshire, England
Herbert   Johnson   Son   -   Male   11   1880   Scholar   Yorkshire, England
Arthur   Johnson   Son   -   Male   9   1882   Scholar   Yorkshire, England
Ernest   Johnson   Son   -   Male   5   1886   Scholar   Yorkshire, England

Carol
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 16 June 19 16:55 BST (UK)
The were living at Glass House Row, Sutton (which is on the outskirts of Hull) in 1871:

William   Johnson   Head   -   Male   27   1844   -   Lincolnshire, England
Sarah A   Johnson   Wife   -   Female   27   1844   -   Yorkshire, England
Louisa F   Johnson   Daughter   -   Female   4   1867   -   Yorkshire, England
Rasalinda   Johnson   Daughter   -   Female   2   1869   -   Yorkshire, England
Richard   Johnson   Son   -   Male   0   1871   -   Yorkshire, England
John   Gilliard   Boarder   -   Male   30   1841   -   Yorkshire, England

Do you know where did the information came form for their marriage?

Carol
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: arthurk on Sunday 16 June 19 17:08 BST (UK)
I wonder - could Hawle be a misreading of handwritten Hessle, and Street a simple mistake for Road?

The list of streets that's been given shows a Primitive Methodist Chapel on Hessle Road, between nos. 159 and 163, apparently at or near the junction with Madeley Street.
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 16 June 19 17:14 BST (UK)
It seemed unlikely when I was looking at the chapel list in the link(s).
The building as far as I can tell is still there. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7365037,-0.358409,3a,75y,134.11h,96.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suJSujOR_Kt1Fqq9H7yVC2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1209017
Hessle Road, City Temple: the former Primitive Methodist chapel.

I just cannot visualise how an atrocious hand could turn Hessle into Hawle AND Road into Street.

IF the OP ever comes back, perhaps we could get a gander at the certficate.
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Sunday 16 June 19 19:24 BST (UK)
After hours of searching, I think I am on "wild goose chase"  ::) Something isn't right here...also, the Johnsons don't seem to be in Hull after 1891, so I looked at Withernsea which is a small seaside town about 21 miles from Hull where I built sandcastles as a child...no joy there either  :-\

The closest I could find is this:

www.myprimitivemethodists.org.uk/content/chapels/shropshire/f-k/howle-pm-chapel-shropshire

Not there though:

Marriages Sep 1894   
Bland    John        Hull    9d   443    
Johnson    Louisa Feneley        Hull    9d   
Parks    Martha        Hull    9d   443   
Waumsley    Moses        Hull    9d   443    


Carol
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: sooty tern on Monday 17 June 19 10:50 BST (UK)
Thanks Carol. I'm away for a few days and will look into your various responses by the weekend. One thought - could Hawle be the Registrar's misunderstanding of Hall? I have temporarily mislaid the marriage certificate but I'm sure the details I gave are correct. I don't understand the subtleties of Ancestry's search engine, sometimes it comes back with "no info" when previously it went straight to the real deal...
Chris
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: PaulineJ on Monday 17 June 19 11:53 BST (UK)
By all means come back when you have eyeballed the marriage certificate again.
The registrar should have been present at the marriage, so he should have know whereabouts he was.
It would be good to get the the bottom of this.

Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: sooty tern on Tuesday 25 June 19 11:08 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone. I found the marriage cert. but it's a scan of a photocopy and unreadable, except I think I can make out Road not Street. I checked the grandparent Johnson who lived at Mount Place on the Hessle Road. Some detective work puts this behind the present day Criterion Hotel in what was a forest of back-to-backs cleared in 1937 I believe. Midway between this house and his place of work in Neptune Street is the Primitive Methodist chapel at 161 Hessle Road, so I guess this is it. No idea where Hawle Street came from so sincere apologies for your wasted efforts. William Johnson was a small-time metal basher, a tinner originally, who had a factory at Neptune Street (William Johnson & Co.). Eventually two sons joined him in the same trade and he moved houses a couple of times, slowly clawing his way up. William ended at Withernsea making ships ventilation cowls and tanks. He left the company to his sons when he died in 1927, along with the equivalent today of £200k to his daughters so he had obviously done well. They changed to manufacturing car radiators. I believe the present Johnsons Sheet Metal on Madeley Street under the A63 flyover is a descendant as in 1935 it incorporated as Johnsons Motor Radiators (Hull) Ltd. This info thanks to various links some of you provided so your work has not been wasted. Thanks!
Title: Re: Hawle Street chapel, Hull in 1894
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 25 June 19 22:38 BST (UK)
Thanks for the feedback Sooty and pleased that you have sorted it out  :D
Carol