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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: Talacharn on Saturday 15 June 19 20:56 BST (UK)
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I have a conundrum. This part of my family started in Pembrokeshire when Aran Evans married Martha Jane Williams - 15 May 1918 at Haverfordwest Register Office. But then I found the marriage of Daniel Evans, his father and Martha Jane Williams, her mother, six months earlier - 26 Nov 1917 at Carmarthen Register Office. I have asked questions regarding both on Pembrokeshire, World War One and Travelling People pages receiving plenty of valuable information. This now, I believe relates to Carmarthenshire.
I would like to know what happened to Aran/Aaron Evans. The 1911 census says he was born in Swansea c.1897. Daniel his father, was born in Llandovery c.1870, though the 1911 census clearly says Llanwrda, and transcribed Llanneda. He was a Travelling Showman having stall on fairs.
On the 1939 Register the only possible, seems to be in Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire. Aron Evans, born: 26 Jan 1895 who is married and trading as a Fish Monger. The issues is Catherine John Evans, born: 1 Sep 1899, also married and undertaking household duties. RG101 / 7239E / 008 /35 . Letter Code XERQ These are the only two at that address. Looking at the original, but a little blurred, the name Evans seems to be crossed out. Was her married name John?
I had looked at the 1939 record before and put it to one side because of Catherine John Evans. Aran married Martha Jane Williams, but I found a death in 1920, for which I need to buy the certificate. At present it is a hunch. But in the 1939 register Aron is married not a Widower.
Now I have found their parents on the 1939 Register. Martha Jane Evans (Williams) is in Blue Street, Carmarthen, living with some family members and described as incapacitated. She died the following year and through probate, effects went to her daughter Florence. She was still referred to as married, so I looked for and found Daniel Evans living in ‘The Living Van’, with others, also in Carmarthen. The main one is Mayra, May Roberts, but Mayra, May has been crossed out and Elizabeth Mary was handwritten. He is trading as a Fish Monger.
I find the 1939 Register strange with all of the corrections. From other family members, there are names added that do not make sense, I know they never married such a person. So I am questions every crossing out, with addition written.
I have now returned to this 1939 Register record. Having recently found Daniel Evans in Carmarthen also trading as Fish Monger, the Williams side of this family were in Laugharne and Haverfordwest. My Grandfather had returned to Laugharne and they were fishermen. He too was a Fish Monger. I know this might be a long-shot, but I need to look again.
Having found Martha Jane Evans (Williams) my great-grandmother, my search technically ended; but Aran/Aaron Evans is bugging me; I would like closure on this strand.
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The 1939 National Register does NOT contain the names of any person who was in the Armed Forces.
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That is a possibility as he was involved throughout WW1. In 1939 he would be 44 years old. On his marriage certificate he was a Collier, but I do not know for how long, so could also have been conscripted to work down the mines. There is a death recorded in 1958 of Aran Evans (the same spelling), Jan-Mar 1958 in Carmarthen. He was aged 62, so about the right DOB (Volume 8A Page 315). Maybe I need to buy that certificate.
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' The issues is Catherine John Evans, born: 1 Sep 1899, also married and undertaking household duties. RG101 / 7239E / 008 /35 . Letter Code XERQ These are the only two at that address. Looking at the original, but a little blurred, the name Evans seems to be crossed out. Was her married name John?'
Catherine Evans, sometime after 1939 register date, marries a Mr John and so becomes Catherine John. At the time that the 1939 register was taken she was Catherine Evans.
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The 1939 National Register does NOT contain the names of any person who was in the Armed Forces.
I have Albert C Pullinger HM Forces 6396820 R Sussex Regiment on the 1939 Register at home in Yeovil, so I think it depends on the circumstances.
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'I would like to know what happened to Aran/Aaron Evans. The 1911 census says he was born in Swansea c.1897. Daniel his father, was born in Llandovery c.1870, though the 1911 census clearly says Llanwrda, and transcribed Llanneda. He was a Travelling Showman having stall on fair'
1) I think you mean the 1901 census.
2) His name looks like Evan Evans, NOT Aran/Aaron Evans. (Compare it with Alice or Arthur or Elizabeth on the same page.)
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Thanks Chempat, If that is the right Aran/Aaron, it would also mean, he married again before 1939 for there to be a Catherine Evans. I believe his first wife Martha Jane Williams died in 1920, but need the death certificate to be sure. Others in the family remarried soon after their spouse died. But I cannot find anything that would fit. I also need the death certificate for the Aran Evans in 1958.
I had the discussion relating to Evan/Aran/Aaron on the Travelling People page. It seems to be the right family and I can understand the two typos in transcription. The 1901 census information also appears on the romanygenes website.
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I am finding newspaper articles relating to Daniel and Catherine, Aran’s parents, in 1902 and 1913, both at fairs near Llandeilo and both in court for starting fights. They are the right couple.
In 1901, the transcriber was gathering information in a large encampment of travelling people. Asking questions may have been testing, so writing down what you think is said maybe easier than asking for clarification. They did not seem to be a couple you irritated.
In 1911, it says they had 4 children, with all still alive. I initially thought the oldest had left ‘home’, but on the 1901 when all should be present, there was no mention of number 4. Also on the 1911 census, ‘Exhib’ is written as being exhibitors or showing something at the fairs, but in a newspaper article, it suggests they provided some form of catering.
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Have you got his birth certificate, and what was his Mother's maiden name?
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I only use FamilySearch and FreeBMD until I can access the library. This evening I searched again for a marriage between Aran/Aaron Evans and Catherine John and still cannot find one using a wide spread of dates. I listed all Evans John marriages in England and Wales between 1920 and 1970 and nothing.
I have not found the Daniel and Catherine marriage, through Catherine Anne was born in Swansea 1871/73. It also says Aran/Aeron was also born in Swansea 1897/7 and I have not found his birth, nor this family on the 1891 census. I have tried FreeBMD for a birth 1893 to 1899 in a wide Swansea area and nothing.
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I have also looked for a marriage between Daniel Evans and Catherine Anne, but nothing seems right on Free BMD.
I believe Catherine Anne Evans died 1916; burial Pembrey, Carmarthenshire on 13 Nov 1916, age 46. The most likely would be St Illtyd, Church of Wales and I will have a look around sometime next week. If there is a gravestone, it may have her maiden name. There is also a chapel opposite.
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There's a Tilly Evans on the '1901 Census, born "Ponty dulais" with Daniel and Catherine.
FindMyPast Baptism (image)
Oct 10 1893, Matilda, dau of Daniel and Catherine Evans, abode Lliw Common, Parish of Llandilo Talybont, father's occpn. Tinman
Possible GRO?
Matilda Evans, Dec Qtr 1893, Swansea, vol 11a page 654 - mother's maiden name Bass
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'This evening I searched again for a marriage between Aran/Aaron Evans and Catherine John and still cannot find one using a wide spread of dates. I listed all Evans John marriages in England and Wales between 1920 and 1970 and nothing. '
Why are you looking for a marriage between Aran/Aaron Evans and Catherine John?
She became Catherine John after her marriage to Aran/Aaron Evans according to the 1939 register.
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Hi Hanes Teulu, I had found the Llandilo Talybont and Tinman but could not link them. He was a Tinplate Rollerman and married to Ann with a daughter Catherine. But that Daniel Evans was also born around 1870 in Llandovery.
Tilly is Matilda in 1911.
RG14 Schedule 158 . Piece/Folio 315 . Page Number 1
GBC/1911/RG14/33027/0315/4
The Daniel Evans I am looking for, reads as Llanwrda on the 1911, but transcribed as Llandovery in 1901 or Llanneda in 1911.
1891 Census . Llanwrda, Llandovery
Daniel Evans . Single . General Servant Domestic
Age 20 . Birth Year (Estimated) 1871 . Carmarthenshire
RG12 . Piece/Folio 4502/43 . Page Number 7
Hi chempat, Confusion is setting in, I will look again when fully awake. I am looking in all directions and also the two generations, who both married Martha Jane Williams, mother and daughter, so get mixed up.
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When I was checking the GRO for a Swansea birth and Pontypridd birth that fitted the 1901 Census for Evan (clearly the name recorded on the Census sheet) and Dan, with a common mother's maiden name I identified -
Evan Daniel Evans, Dec Qtr 1895, Swansea, 11a 910- mother's maiden name Morgans (+ a note that reads "Occasional copy A")
Daniel John Evans, Dec Qtr, 1897, Pontypridd, 11a 606 - mother's maiden name Morgans
I note on the 1911 Census that the last entry reads
Daniel John Evans - the first given name has been corrected to John.
The problem is finding an appropriate GRO entry for Tilly/Matilda Evans - mother Morgans!!
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Re. the Matilda Evans GRO birth - mother's maiden name BAss - check the 1891 Census for -
Catherine U BOss - census reference RG12 4470 93 39
Note occupation!
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The "abode" on Matilda Evan's baptismal entry is "Lliw Common". Checking Welsh newpapers on line "Lliw Common, Pontardulais" is described as the site of a gypsy encampment.
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Hanes Teulu, How did you find that. It helps to speak and read Welsh, which I am lacking. This has to be the right family. I imagine all the children will be born on gypsy encampments. And Catherine was a Morgans.
I went to the church in Pembrey this morning, through the rain and with cold wet feet I gave up, but have a telephone number for the Vicar. I am sure that is where she is buried.
Then it was across to the library where I found a marriage for Matilda Evans; Oct-Dec 1917 to George Davies. Haverfordwest 11a 2348
Daniel married Martha Jane Williams (Mother) on 26 Nov 1917
Aran married Martha Jane Williams (Daughter) on 15 May 1918
On the 1939 Register I believe the same Matilda is married to George Watkins.
George Watkins . 15 Jan 1892 . Married . Insurance Agent
Matilda Watkins (Davies Evans) . 5 Feb 1899 . Married . Unpaid Domestic Duties
Joseph H Gough . 21 Feb 1915 . Single . Police Constable Gemts Foli (Gemts Foli as transcribed and could not look at the original as download was so slow.)
So now I need to find the death of George Davies and her second marriage to George Watkins. Possibly George Davies during WW1.
Also the birth of Catherine Anne Morgans in Swansea.
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Daniel’s father was Edward Evans a basket maker, so another traveller. Although Daniel was born in Llandovery/Llanwrda, they may well have been travelling and the next week they were somewhere else. The 1901 census appears on the gypsygenes website, but it now looks like they were travelling folks across generations.
The first name crossed out on the 1911 census and replaced with John, originally read Daniel. I am one sibling missing as there are 4 living, but only 3 seem to be present on the 1901 and 1911 censuses.
I found on the GRO: Catherine Morgans . Mother’s Maiden Name: Rees
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in Swansea Volume 11A Page 630
As for the children, including all permutations of their name, nothing seems to fit.
I had seen the record for Tilly/Matilda where the father is in the tin industry. Then for the next child they are in Swansea. I assume they worked where they could between fairs, tin, copper or coal. There are other Evans families also working there and living in the same areas.
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These records feel as if they might contribute to the solution,other than a middle name,and possibly, order.
Birth:Matilda Morgans mmn Bevan Swansea 1893 GRO
Marriage: Daniel Evans to Catherine Martha Bevan Sept Quarter Swansea 1893 FreeBMD
Regards
Roger
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Hanes Teulu, How did you find that. It helps to speak and read Welsh, which I am lacking.
Speaking Welsh has nothing to do with it. The info was readily available on GRO, FindMyPast, BMD etc.
So, first, what do you mean by "How did you find that". What is "that"? I have posted several items.
Re. "Aren Evans", are you still pursuing an "Aren/AAron Evans" or do you accept that the name might, just might, be "Evan Daniel Evans"??
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I am quite new to family research and this family I find challenging. To be honest, I can follow Tilly/Matilda, but the sons with their name changes, I struggle to follow. I like to make sense of things and at present so much of it does not make sense. Lliw Common I had seen, but could not link it to the family until you said it held a gypsy encampment. I have looked laterally, found plenty of information that I file as possibles, which is where most of it stays until a link is formed. But I should have looked deeper into the places, and found the Lliw Common encampment. I have come to realise, travelling people must be one of the most difficult groups to research their family tree. Wherever they were for the birth of their children, was likely to be an encampment.
Now I do not know what Aran/Evan/Aaron/Daniel means. But on the marriage certificate it is only Aran and the army has him as Aran; no second name. If you are giving your name formally, surely it will be the most accurate. Daniel was crossed out. I did think that could be the fourth child who is not present in either census, when the 1911 census says there were four living children. As for Evan Evans, I could understand that being a transcription error for Aran. For someone to go into a large gypsy encampment and ask such questions must be a difficult experience. Evan, even linked with Evans is common in Wales; Aran is rare, and not only in Wales.
My initial question asked what happened to Aran Evans in 1939. I don't feel I will get that answer, probably because he was involved in the war. What I have learnt, adds to the 'formal' information I had. It has been interesting, especially knowing my family better as my great-grandfather was a Hawker, but static rather than travelling. 'Official' documentation has him as Aran and there is one death registration with the same spelling; I will get that certificate; if only to rule it out. There will be branches where closure does not happen. My family members realting to the Evans family died, I have closure relating to them, so I there is only curiosity in following this branch backwards or forwards.
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'the army has him as Aran; no second name.'
What army records have you found for him?
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There is a question on the World War One page: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=813401.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=813401.0)
Initially, A Evans joined the South Lancashire Regiment and given the number 242740. Later when he was transferred to the Machine Gun Corps, he became 138347. Pembrokeshire Absent Voters List has Aron Evans of 19 Market Street, having the Machine Gun Corps 13834 number; and missing the last digit. The War Office Daily Casualty List has South Lancashire Regiment - Evans 242740 A (Barry Port) under the wounded section, dated 12th Sept 1917.
I accept Aran is also Aron, but it is not Evan, Daniel or containing a middle name.
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The GRO only provides certificates up to 1957, so this morning I called at the Registrar's office. Requesting Aran Evans . Jan-Mar 1958 . 8a 315 Carmarthen the national entry could not be found in their list. I have now emailed with more information so they can look further.
Looking again at the actual census records Aran has been spelt Evan (1901) Aaron (1911, but transcribed as Caron) Aron (Army) and Aran (Marriage). There is no evidence of a second name.
The 'crossing out' was with his brother Dan (1901) and John Daniel (1911). Just because there is no evidence, they may have had other names. When asked, what is the child's name, it is natural to offer the one they are called, rather than all names given. But marriage tends to ask for a full name and it is still Aran. I can see John being combined with Daniel because of the crossing out, but not Aran.
I did think Daniel was the fourth child, missing from both censuses as there should be 4 children living. Even in 1911, if one had flown the 'caravan' they should be on the 1901 census.
There is an added issue, that there are two Daniel Evans at Llandilo T’Bont, both born in 1870 at Llandovery, but the other has a wife called Ann.
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The GRO only provides certificates up to 1957,
That's simply not true! ;D
The GRO can supply certificates for all events, except those within the last 6 months (18 months for marriages).
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I tried on GRO and could only search up to 1957.
1837-1957 Deaths - Current and Marriage indexes are not available to search here: Pasted from the GRO website. When I tried to search I could only go as far as 1957 on the slider.
I have the registration: Carmarthen 8a 315, from a national list, but the Registrar in Carmarthen could not find it. Would the GRO find a certificate when Carmarthen are unable to?
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Go to place an order on GRO not the search part as that has restricted dates. You have the reference number.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp
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OK thanks. I know I have the reference, but that should relate to the same record GRO or Carmarthen. If Carmarthen cannot find it in their records will the GRO be able to?
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References at District Register Offices are completely different to the GRO reference ;D
They use different systems of referencing.
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Thanks, I will get the certificate. I am not experienced enough to know the finer points, just logic that makes me question.
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Long shot here trying to trace my grandmother Kate my mother revered to her as a gypsy andI saw this on a Romany site I thought I'd look further my dad is 82 after he got meningitis vss a child he's memory is not very good .but he says there were not many records back then .all I know was she was one of 17 but only 13 or less survived I remember my aunts vaguely they were called violet and may .Kate married miner Issac morris .they resided in railway terrace cymfllynfell in the black mountains .she died of a stroke but I do remember her .I know in the 60s some of the family lived in morriston Swansea.her eldest son john was born in wales however my father was born in england so the mystery began when we found out my father was not issavs child it explains why we were never close after Kate's death and lost contact with the Evans family kind regs nettie
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Was your grandmother Kate Evans and her husband was Isaac Morris, and marriage around 1930?
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Possible marriage:
Marriages December quarter 1929
Catherine W Evans Morris Swansea 11a 1907
Isaac Morris Evans Swansea 11a 1907
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Hi Chempat,
My grandmother was Maggie Brown who married her cousin Thomas Williams.
There is a specific section for Travelling People, where I also asked a question.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=813727.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=813727.0)
There someone provided me with a link. The website was made with Flash software, so you may have to accept it, before opening on your computer.
http://romanygenes.com/evans-family/4571213814 (http://romanygenes.com/evans-family/4571213814)
It will take you to the Evans page, but there are others in Wales and England. I quickly looked in Wales and at some England pages, but that does not mean they were not travellers. It may be best to ask a question on the Travelling Families page of Rootschat, as those who frequent it have much more experience than I do. I now have further information relating to the Evans family of travellers that I will pass on to romanygenes.com.
My interest in Daniel and Aaron Evans, travelling-folk was to close that generation in my family tree. Daniel married my great-grandmother Martha Jane after her husband another Thomas died in 1917. Arron Evans his son married Martha Jane Williams, her daughter six-months later in 1918.
In the 1939 Register I could find all that were still living, apart from Daniel. My great-grandparents were married in 1894, Haverfordwest and my grandparents in 1915, Merthyr. The Williams family were Hawkers, so fall into the same category, and company as Travellers, Basket Makers and Coopers.
The closest in Wales seems to be the one you offered: Marriage between Isaac Morris and Catherine W Evans . Oct-Dec 1929 . Swansea, Glamorganshire . Volume: 11A . Page: 1907 . Line: 6. Even on Free BMD, this is the only marriage in England/Wales 1928-1932 between Isaac Morris and an Evans. If this is the right marriage, its certificate should provide his occupation and his father with his occupation. I would take a gamble and purchase the certificate. A family of travellers could be easier to trace. I only realised the Evans family were travellers, having found them in the 1911 Census living in the yard of a public house and he was transcribed as a Stowman (typo Showman).
Other than the 1939 Register, there are the local newspapers, but the online resource only goes up to 1919. As my interest was a generation or two before, I found so much about them, though mainly attending different Courts for fighting. Still I do not know what happened to Daniel and probably never will.
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Yes that is my grandmother late and Isaacs marriage .I have some names for you .after talking to my dad .he said there were two illtids .one was in trouble and went to prison .the other was killed by the last bomb in ww2 .in Italy the war ended and they were getting on a boat but the Italians fired a shell as they had not been told the war was ended .his sisters violet went each year to Italy to pay there respects .Kate father name unknown to me was a general or high up in the salvation army in morriston wales.this may be a way to search their records .even my dad says its all a mystery .feral my father was born 22 Sept 1938/9.
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My father’s side (Williams), were mainly hawkers and always in trouble, which spanned generations. It was no wonder they knew and then married travelling people. I found Aran/Aeron (though some suggest it is Evan Evans) and Martha Jane in the 1939 Register living in Carmarthen but not together. He was in a caravan as a fishmonger with other women, but I was unsure as to the relationship. I was looking for Daniel Evans and what happened to him. On the 1939 Register there are two Aran Evans, one in Llandovery as a fishmonger, but the wife does not fit. He may have remarried, but I could not find a marriage. The other was in Bedwelty, though I also found an appropriate birth for a Aran Evans in the area. As some suggested, he may have been in the forces. The difficulty with common Welsh names in Wales; and especially with travelling families, is trying to find proof. Aran/Aeron married my grandfather’s sister, but I may never find what happened to him. The same with Daniel, I cannot find an accurate death.
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Hi I have only just started to look as I would like to tell my dad .I find it strange there were two illtyds not sure ov spelling .my nan kate firstborn was called john morris .my dad hosever wasbor in a small hospital near reading , hes finding hard to remember details hes memory is not so goodhe says the menigitiswiped his childood memoriesbut he has photo of his grandfather .I was told by dad they was bir rough lol.if you are the same family we are related , ill be asking my dad for more names .from memory I know kates sisters not all names violet louise may poss rose ill ask dad when I see him , jogging his memory andsuggested he makes notes , happy new year good luck on the quest , nettie
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My only link with Daniel and Aran/Aeron Evans is through marriage and not directly part of my lineage. The family research was to answer one question; when did my family actually move to Laugharne. This generation moved to Haverfordwest where my grandfather was born. Their son Thomas then returned to Laugharne having married his cousin Maggie Brown.
When I found the marriage to my grandfather's sister to Aran Evans and then their mother remarrying a Daniel Evans I was interested to know more. Some on RootsChat feel Aran's mother Catherine was a Morgan(s). I traced a few through Census records, but could not find proof; nothing said Swansea, where the 1911 Census records said she was born.
I assume there were many marriages between travelling families and they travelled distances, but I have not found anywhere other than South Wales; Carmarthenshire and Aberavon as there was a large fair located on Favi Fields. The only females I know were Catherine Anne Evans (Mother) and Matilda (Tilly) Evans (Daughter).
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Did you say that your Father was called Feral - did you mean Gerald?
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I took it to be Feral, as running wild and never home, which would fit with many of my folks as well. My family repeated names, even up to my father's generation and no mention of a Gerald.
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Talacharn,
Nettie said that I had the correct marriage (for her) as in Kate and Isaac:
Catherine W Evans Morris Swansea
Isaac Morris Evans Swansea
and there is a birth for a Gerald in December quarter 1938 in Wokingham, which fits in with further information supplied by Nettie.
Unfortunately I do not know what ' illtyds' refers to.
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They might be related to my lot, but I only have for certain, a Catherine Anne (b. c.1871 d. 1916) who married Daniel Evans. Following her death, he married the wife of my great-grandfather. The only other was Matilda (Tilly) Evans (b. c.1893).
Catherine Anne Evans . Died 1916 . 46 . Birth c.1870; burial 13 Nov 1916 . Pembrey, Carmarthenshire.
I cannot find a birth for Catherine in the Swansea area, which it says on Census records.
1911 Census . Milford Arms Yard, Bancyfelin, St Clears, Carmarthenshire. (as transcribed)
Daniel Evans . Head . 39 . Llanneda (Llanwrda), Carmarthenshire . Travelling Stowman (Showman), own account (Wife and children assisting)
Catherine Anne Evans . Wife . 38 . Swansea
Matilda Evans . Daughter . 16 . Pontadulais
Aaron Evans . Son . 14 . Swansea
John Evans . Son . 13 . Pontyfridd
Baptism: Matilda Evans
Event: 1893 . Llandilo T’Bont, Glamorgan, Wales
Address: Lliw Common
Father: Daniel . Occupation: Tinman
Mother: Catherine
As for the two males I have, there are different names, also with names crossed out; Dan, John, Evan. The only name I have stuck with is Aran (b. c.1875) as that appeared on the marriage certificate and military records, although spelt slightly differently.
1939 Register has an Aran/Aron Evans in Llandeilo, being a Fish Merchant; but he is married to Catherine E (John). I did not find a marriage between them.
There is a death registration: Aran Evans . Jan-Mar 1958 . Age 62 . Birth Year (Estimated) 1896
Carmarthen Volume 8A . Page 315 . Affiliate Line Number 42
On the 1939 Register Aran's wife, Martha Jane Evans is incapacitated and living in Blue Street, Carmarthen. He is living in a caravan, also in Carmarthen. Living with Martha Jane is; Florence E Buchan (Humphreys) b. 17 Feb 1912 . Married . Fish Hawker; Record Officially Closed; Agnes M Dunbar (Williams) . ? . Single . At School; then four more Record Officially Closed; and William Healey . 18 Feb 1868 . Married . General Labourer.
I have not found Aran; hence the original question.
Also on the 1939 Register Daniel is residing in The Living Van, Carmarthen RD, Carmarthenshire
Daniel Evans b. 7 Oct 1871, Married, Fish Monger. Also Mayra, May Roberts . b. 9 Mar 1904 . Single . Household Duties and three Records Officially Closed.
England and Wales, National Index of Wills and Administrations
Evans Martha Jane of 18 Blue-street Carmarthen, died 24th November 1940 Probate Oxford 18 October to Florence Edith Buchan single woman. Effects £975 15s. 7d. (Listed 1941) It now makes me think why Oxford?
Who the others are, I have no idea as it was taking me away from my lineage.
Sometimes I get confused between Daniel and Aran Evans, especially how they married into my family. I had put this away and was concentrating on my maternal side, until the recent post, so I have been reacquainting myself with the information collected.
Considering these are Welsh people, the name Gerald seems strange. It is a name associated with Ireland and Anglo-Saxon England. At present, I have no information linking this family, to any family members in England. They were travelling people, so may have ventured that far. My assumption was that following WW1 they would have stopped travelling, as fairs stopped, but that was only an assumption.
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In the 1939 Register Florence E Buchan listed as being single, which she was, but someone has acknowledged her marriage.
Marriage Jan-Mar 1941
Florence E Williams and James K Buchan
Carmarthen 11a 2489
Entry reads Humphreys or Williams for spouse name
Also, in the 1891 Census . Llanwrda, Llandovery
Daniel Evans . Single . General Servant Domestic
Age 20 . Birth Year (Estimated) 1871 . Carmarthenshire
RG12 . Piece/Folio 4502/43 . Page Number 7
This might be the right Daniel Evans as the 1911 Census says born in Llanwrda as I checked the original.
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This morning I spent some time in the library: The 1911 Census says Daniel and Catherine Anne Evans had been married 16 years, having 4 children, with all 4 still living. As there are only 3 children listed, 1 unknown, must be somewhere else. 16 years means a marriage c.1895. In the 1901 Census, there are still only 3 children listed, which could explain the corrections in both.
Matilda (Tilly) Evans was born c.1895, same as the marriage.
Aaron Evans born c.1896 and John Evans born c.1897
Between 1897 and 1911, there is scope for another child to have been born, or maybe one before marriage.
I cannot find a marriage between Daniel and Catherine Anne. Having looked on Find My Past and FreeBMD, there is nothing that seems right, even looking throughout Wales and England. Although they said 16 years married, how accurate is that?
Wanting to find Daniel on the 1891 Census, I searched for Edward and Daniel Evans. From the marriage certificate it said Edward was a Basket Maker, which I searched for first. There were only two possibilities, both in Dorset, but neither fitted. Then I went through several pages from Wales and England looking for Edward and Daniel. In being a Basket Maker and therefore travelling, I thought any children would be born at different locations. Eventually I found this, which fits regarding date and occupation/status:
1891 Census . Garn Road . Llanfinhangel Aberbythych, Llandilofawr, Carmarthenshire . Town Cathilas
Edwin Evans . 41 . 1850 . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Brecon . English
Zibiah Evans . 40 . 1851 . Basket Maker . Gipsy . Hereford . English
Daniel Evans . Son . 20 . 1871 . Single . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Carmarthenshire . English
Perrin B Williams . Nephew . 17 . 1874 . Single. Tinplate Worker . Aberavon, Glamorganshire . English
RG12 . Piece 4512 . Folio 93 . Page 17
(I need to find them on the 1881 Census, as there are gaps for other children. At that time, only 1 child seems strange, but nothing on Family Search.)
Marriage Oct-Dec 1917 . Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire
George Davies and Matilda Evans
Volume 11a . Page 2348 . Line Number 35
Considering Daniel and Aran Evans both lived in Haverfordwest, Aran marrying there, while Daniel married in Carmarthen; it is likely, this Matilda Evans is the one named in 1901 and 1911 Census records. I have a newspaper article Aug 1917, where several women were fined for trespass on the railway lines in Aberavon including Matilda Evans.
There is a marriage: 22 Sep 1889 . St. John, Swansea
Daniel Evans (19) . Charlotte Morgans (18)
Fathers: Morris Evans (Labourer) and Thomas Morgans (Butcher)
I do not see how this can be the same Daniel Evans, though birth dates are very similar. The marriage date is 6 years adrift. Also, I have his father’s name as Edward or Edwin. But it does explain why some on RootsChat feel Catherine’s surname was Morgans, when finding children; Matilda, Evan and John Evans on the GRO, with mmn Morgan(s).
Looking to link Catherine W who married in 1929 to my family, on FreeBMD, I only found three listed in Wales, then on the GRO I found their mmn and none fit with my family.
Apr-Jun 1900 . Evans . Catherine Winifred . Swansea . 11a . 1032 . mmn Street
Jan-Mar 1909 . Evans . Catherine Winifred . Pontypridd . 11a . 618 . mmn Evans
Jul-Sep 1909 . Evans . Catherine Winifred . Swansea . 11a . 1162 . mmn Hutchings
But I still have a missing child on the 1911 Census: 4 born, 4 still living when it only lists 3.
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The 1911 census asks for how many COMPLETE years the current marriage has lasted ;D
So an answer of 16 years implies a marriage between April 1894 and April 1895 (the anniversary dates of the census).
Of course, they may not have married at all - just lived together.
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Hi KGarrad,
I searched a coulpe of years either side and nothing. I did question if they actually married, as proof would not be required. In making up a marriage, it needs to be before the first born. It must be a challenge for the person collecting, in entering large Gipsy encampments, or even asking individual families, as Daniel and Catherine were in several newspaper articles for fighting.
Some of the closed records of the 1939 Register, could be males continuing the Evans name, or even Cartherine W Evans. My great-grandparents Thomas and Martha Jane Williams, to my knowledge, had five children; Martha Jane (married Aran), Thomas (grandfather married Maggie Brown), John William (died WW1), Violet May (who I do not think married) and Elizabeth Florence. When Martha Jane Williams married Daniel Evans, her age would be around 47.
The marriage certificate of Daniel Evans and Martha Jane Williams
26 Nov 1917 . Register Office Carmarthen
Daniel Evans . 47 . Widower . Public Amusement Caterer . Van Carmarthen Park . Father: Edward Evans (Deceased) . Basket Maker
Martha Jane Williams . 46 . Widow . Fruiterer . Ivy Bush Inn, Market Street, Haverfordwest . Father: Thomas Richards . Railway Porter
Witnesses: J J Surnes and F E Rossason. [unsure of that name]
Regarding Catherine W Evans marriage Oct-Dec 1929 and registered in Swansea, I do not see how she is a daughter of Aran/Dan or John Evans, as the dates do not add up for her to be old enough to marry.
Aran and Martha Jane seem to have married and lived in Carmarthen, though by 1939 I do not know where he was living, aged around 45 years. Martha Jane though, is recorded as still being married. As for John, I do not know what happened to him. Daniel Evans may have fathered other children, if Martha Jane (wife number 2) died, but I cannot find for certain a death. In 1939, he is in the Living Van, parked at Carmarthen, with another woman and others, with their records closed.
If only those records could be opened.
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I have a few issues and wondered it members could shed some light on them.
On the 1891 Census record, I found this family, but I need other records to confirm my thoughts that it is the right one. I would like to find them on the 1881 Census, as there are gaps for other children. At that time, having only one child seems strange, but nothing on Family Search.
1891 Census . Garn Road . Llanfinhangel Aberbythych, Llandilofawr, Carmarthenshire . Town Cathilas
Edwin Evans . 41 . 1850 . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Brecon . English
Zibiah Evans . 40 . 1851 . Basket Maker . Gipsy . Hereford . English
Daniel Evans . Son . 20 . 1871 . Single . Tinplate Worker . Gipsy . Carmarthenshire . English
Perrin B Williams . Nephew . 17 . 1874 . Single. Tinplate Worker . Aberavon, Glamorganshire . English
RG12 . Piece 4512 . Folio 93 . Page 17
In the second marriage of Daniel, his father’s name is given as Edward. At present, I have not been able to find his first marriage.
I could not find the town Cathilas on modern or old maps, though Gorslas may fit in that areas; and some towns servicing industry could well have disappeared.
Zibiah is a Hebrew girl's name and I could only find a few births, with this one being the closest to year and birthplace. If they were travellers, it might not have been registered when and where born.
Oct-Dec 1852 . Zibiah Barber . Leominster . 6a . 461
I cannot find a marriage.
Perrin (boy) is of English derivation, and an alternate form of Perkin (English): variation of Peter. I found two mentions of a baptism, but no official record on the GRO database. Any suggestions?
Baptism: Perrin Brookes Williams
01 Dec 1872 . Aberavon, Glamorganshire
Digital Folder Number: 004378199
Baptism: Perrin Brookes Williams
1872 . Aberavon, Glamorgan
Father's Name: Samuel Williams . Basket Maker
Mother's Name: Gravalina
I cannot find this family, mainly because of the name Gravalina which is not listed as a name. If it is a typo, I am stumped as to what it should be. As they were travellers, where the baptism took place, may not be where they are living at the time of any Census.
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Did you spot the Trelech ar Bettws baptism of Agnes Williams, April 13th 1868, parents Samson** and Gravelina, abode Trelech chiefly Neath (?), father basket maker.
Agnes aged 13 mths at baptism
** the original entry reads Samuel but has been amended to Samson. There are other Williams baptisms on same page which may be linked?
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Parish of Trelech ar Bettws
Isabella Williams, 24 Jan 1869, abode Llwynrhyd Trelech Pro Tem, parents Samson and Gravelina, father basket maker.
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Cathilas:
https://ukga.org/wales/Carmarthenshire/towns/CathargoedCathilasandGlynn.html
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Gravelena as a name:
https://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/2014/05/victorian-romany-names.html
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Thanks,
I will check them out in the library tomorrow as at home I only use Family Search and need to read the originals. I started this search following my father’s side in being Williams and suspect the Williams and Evans families go back generations with marriages between. This search is presently taking me further away from my direct lineage, but I am just intrigued by the lifestyle and it may take me in a circle back to my direct family.
Llanfihangel-Aberbythych makes sense with them being travelling people. I looked on Genuki, but was not aware of ukga.org. As for Gravelena, I searched online, but that page is amazing. I have bookmarked both pages for further reference.
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There's a Gravalina Lee on the 1861 Census - age 14, daughter of Samson Lee, basket maker.
Isabella Williams was baptised 24 Jan 1869, Agnes Williams April 13 1868 - aged 13 months.
GRO birth registrations which "fit" the above - reg districts apart - are
Agnes Williams, Mar Qtr 1867, Pont y pridd, 11a 295 - mother's maiden name Lee
Isabella Williams, Dec Qtr 1868, Pembroke, 11a 755 - mother's maiden name Lee
Given the family were travellers - possibilities???
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1881: Census . Gipsy Tent Penyard . Dyffrynclydach, Glamorganshire
Samson Williams . Head . M . 33 . (Estimated): 1848. Cwmavon, Glamorganshire . Basket Maker
Gavelina Williams . Wife . F . 33 . Staffordshire, England
Agnes Williams . Daughter . F . 15 . Caerffili, Glamorganshire
Isabella Williams . Daughter . F . 12 . Haverfordwest, Pembrokeshire
Diliah Williams . Daughter . F . 9 . Swansea, Glamorganshire
Penenboke Williams . Son . M . 8 . Aberavon, Glamorganshire
Henora Williams . Daughter . F . 5 . Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Elvira Williams . Daughter . F . 2 . Sketty, Glamorganshire
Rebecca Williams . Daughter . F . 0 . Sketty, Glamorganshire
RG11 . Piece/Folio: 5344/108 . Page Number: 32
GS Film: 101775467 . Digital Folder: 101775467 . Image: 00746
From the birth locations, they were travellers.
I found some articles online: ‘Nelson Williams, Edwin Evans, and Samson Williams, were in court for pretending to be a Government Inspector in acquiring a horse.’ Another article says: ‘Samson Williams, alias Boswell, gipsy.’ Boswell is a prominent name on Romany sites. By 1907, he was in court again for being drunk under the name of Samson Boswell.
Edwin Evans and Samson Williams is the link I need that shows they are the right people. It would seem, Gravalina Williams died Jul-Sep 1890, age 37. Birth Year (Estimated): 1853, which is a little out, though surely it has to be the same person. (Volume: 11A . Page: 257 . Line Number: 14). I wonder if Samson Williams then started using Boswell again. It is getting stranger.
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On the Romanygenes website, it says on the page Boswells in Wales; Catherine Ann Boswell was born in Swansea Jul-Sep 1872. I am looking for a Catherine Ann(e) who married Daniel Evans, whose father was in court alongside Samson Williams and Nelson Williams. It made me think. If Samson Williams was born a Boswell, could Catherine Ann(e) be registered as a Williams?
Birth: Catherine Ann Williams
Neath Jul-Sep 1872 . Volume: 11a . Page: 558 . Line Number: 171
On the 1911 Census, Catherine was born in Swansea, but if they were travelling people, Neath is the next stop.
I have also looked for newspaper articles for Nelson Williams and found two Census records. It is clear, they did not want to give any information; even his wife is called Nelson or N K and only by 1901 has the saying of Williams been mastered, though that might be the one collecting information within such an environment. I tried to find Nelson as a Boswell in Wales and England. There was nothing, though he might not have been a Boswell.
1901 Census: Llandilotalybont St Teilo . Llandeilo-talybont, Glamorgan
Nelson Williams . M . 40 (Est. 1862)
Nelson Williams . F . 39
Schedule Type: 145 . Page Number: 27
1891 Census: Llandilo Talybont
Nelson Willims . Head . M . 30 (Est. 1861) . Married . England . Basket Maker
N K Willims . Wife . F . England
RG12 . Piece/Folio: 4470/ 54 . Page Number: 25
Nelson Williams died in 1906, hit by a cyclist near Swansea.
Would it be more appropriate to ask these and further questions on the Travelling People page?
If possible, I would like more information about Samson Williams/Boswell and family; Nelson Williams, who I assume had a previous surname. Also Edward/Edwin Evans, whose family I have traced, but now question if Evans was the name born with, or he adopted it in Wales.
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It depends how many people with expert knowledge just read the Traveller page, or look on here also.
Perhaps do a post on there linking to here, stating specifically what you want finding out now.
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Thanks, I have copied it on the Travelling People page with a link.
If possible I would like to find them in England, but with changing names, that might be a challenge. The person I was to know more about is Edwin/Edward Evans. Until I found the information about Samson Williams being a Boswell, I am now wondering if Edwin Evans was originally called Edward and something else; even living in England. It says in a Census that Edwin was born in Brecon, but if you change your name, you could also change your birthplace. I know his son Daniel was born in Llandovery.
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My laptop was not working properly .hence spellings .Gerald my father was born in reading .Kate Winifred his mother had separated from Issac .morris at this time .violet may would be Kate's sister along with other sisters called Joan and Louisa.two sons called ilytid spelling not sure .one was killed in Italy by the last shell as he was getting on the boat to leave .the other brother was in and out of pontadawe prison for fighting i believe pontadawe Morrison all come under Swansea my family lived in Morristown I do not know dates but they were there in the 1960s..my grandmother Kate's father was in the salvation army st Morristown where he was an officer .no name unfortunately ..but I will be getting a photograph.these threads are so interesting .I had a thought that brothers maybe used each others I.D .there were 17 children .only 13 survived infancy I learnt this when I was very young .so far Kate violet Louisa Joan iltyd and iltyd .my dad was likened to an Indian .and I have Asian blood type b .this made me want to research dads side first .many people were illiterate and spelling May be phonetically spelt so no wonder names got mixed up especially as wales was welsh speaking at these times .I did speak welsh as a child but moved to east London as a small child where dad got his first teaching job .yes he's Gerald not feral my bad .but saying that we ran wild in wales and have a love for tinkering and buying and selling tat .I do up old chairs etc and make wares to sell at markets .must be something in our blood .any new info on my side of the Evanses I will add .next mission is to find the mason s and lambon family .on my mothers fathers mum side .
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At present, I cannot link Catherine W, or any Morris to my family, but there were so many of them and inter-married.
When Daniel Evans married Martha Jane Williams, his father was named as Edward, though feel he was also called Edwin. They mixed with Samson and Nelson Williams who I have traced in the records and also local newspapers. It would seem Samson Williams was actually a Boswell who changed his name when moving to Wales and blending in with the locals. The Census records for Nelson Williams would suggest he did the same. There is a Catherine Ann Boswell listed on Romanygenes dating from 1872 but I cannot find a formal record. But I can find a formal record as a Williams, in the right area, born Swansea registered Neath Jul-Sep 1872 . Volume: 11a . Page: 558 . Line Number: 171. That is still not close enough for me to say she was the first wife of Daniel Evans; if they actually married. It would seem the Williams and Evans families married into each other. I found the death of Nelson Williams, but as yet, not Edward/Edwin Evans of Samson Williams, nor Daniel Evans.
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Although this thread asked about Aran Evans, I did not know what happened to his wife Martha Jane Evans (b. 1895), so I spent a few hours in the library searching Find my Past.
On the 1939 Register, there are 5 closed entries, but Martha Jane Evans (b. 30 Sep 1870), her mother is at 18 Blue Street, Carmarthen. She married Daniel Evans, Aran’s father after her husband Thomas Williams (my great-grandfather) died. She is incapacitated, but still married. Daniel Evans is also in Carmarthen, in the Living Van, with other women.
Today I found: Death: Martha Jane Evans . Oct-Dec 1945 . Age 50 . Carmarthen 11a 870. The image said she was living at 18 Blue Street Carmarthen and is buried in St David’s, Carmarthen, page 79. This shows Martha Jane, the wife of Aran was living there when she died. I accept, he could be in the forces, but wonder if they are actually one or two of the closed records, though with both born in the mid-1890s, they are well past the 100 year rule.
I tried to look in the graveyard, but parking is an issue, so first I will contact the church.
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Just remembered that my gran Kate m .mother died when she was a young girl and she helped bring up her younger brothers and sisters .my dad assumed she was the eldest but as he said he was only small .he said he was born in calcot Berkshire in a so called cottage hospital .so they must have gone o surrey to register him .that will be news to him .my nan did some moving around .my dad is gifted with palm reading and tarot .I know the aunts were into seances etc and telling fortunes .I read tarot but it cannot help the quest .as I remember I will add post .I'm really enjoying reading all the family histories and lots of mysteries !
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Of the children, all I know for certain is that Matilda Evans married George Davies and Aran married Martha Jane Williams. The 1911 Census, said Daniel and Catherine had been married 19 years (correction to previous post when I said 16 years) with 4 children and 4 still alive.
1901 Census . Favi Field, Aberavon, Glamorgan
Daniel Evans . Head . M . Married . 30 . b: c.1871 . Llandovery, Carmarthenshire . Travelling Showman
Catherine Evans . Wife . F . Married . 28 . b: c.1873 . Swansea, Glamorgan . Travelling Showman
Tilly Evans . Daughter . F . 7 . b: c.1894 . Portydulais, Glamorgan . Travelling Showman
Evan Evans . Son . M . 5 . b: c.1896 . Swansea, Glamorgan
Dan Evans . Son . M . 3 . b: c.1898 . Pontypridd, Glamorgan
1911 Census Carmarthen . Llanfihangel Abercowin, Milford Arms Yard, Saint Clears, Carmarthenshire
Daniel Evans . Head . Age 39 . Llanneda (Llanwrda), Carmarthenshire
Catherine Anne Evans . Wife . Age 38 . Swansea, Glamorganshire . Assisting In The Business
Matilda Evans . Daughter . Age 16 . Pontadulais, Glamorganshire . Assisting In The Business
Aaron Evans . Son . Single . Age 14 . Birth Year (Estimated) 1897 . Swansea, Glamorganshire . Assisting In The Business
John Evans . Son . Age 13 . Pontyfridd, Glamorganshire . Assisting In The Business
RG14 Schedule 158 . Piece/Folio 315 . Page Number 1
GBC/1911/RG14/33027/0315/4
There is a John Evans which could be Dan Evans as in the 1911 Census Dan has been crossed out and replaced with John as in 1901 and 1911, they a recorded at the same birth year and place. Evan in 1901, could be Aaron in 1911.
As only 3 children are listed in each Census, one is missing on both occasions. They had been married 3 years before Matilda was born, so enough time for a birth before. but no listing on the 1901 Census. There may actually be a Daniel and John. This afternoon, I found a Baptism which has to be the right family.
Baptism: Daniel Evans
1901 . Llandilo T’Bont, Glamorgan . Pontarddulais
Age: 4 . Occupation: Show Business
Father's Name: Daniel . Mother's Name: Catherine Ann
As I could not find anything for a John Evans, he may be Daniel John. On the GRO, several could fit with a birth year of 1897. Assuming the age is accurate, it gives a birth date of 1897, although baptised in Llandilo T’Bont, the birth could be registered elsewhere, as to my knowledge in 1901 they were Llandilo T’Bont and Aberavon. All of these would be within reach:
Daniel Evans . mmn Davies
GRO Reference: Jul-Sep 1897 . Llandilofawr . Volume 11A Page 1119
Daniel Evans . mmn Williams
GRO Reference: Oct-Dec 1897 . Neath . Volume 11A Page 843
Daniel John Evans . mmn Morgans
GRO Reference: Apr-Jun 1897 . Swansea . Volume 11A . Page 933
Daniel John Evans . mmn Jones
GRO Reference: Jul-Sep 1897 . Llandilofawr . Volume 11A . Page 1115
Daniel John Evans . mmn Evans
GRO Reference: Jul-Sep 1897 . Swansea . Volume 11A Page 953
Previously I have been offered Morgans as Catherine’s maiden name, but when I found Matilda it did not fit.
Baptism: Matilda Evans
1893 . Lliw Common . Llandilo T’Bont, Glamorgan
Father's Name: Daniel . Occupation: Tinman
Mother's Name: Catherine
Matilda Evans . mmn Bass
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 841
I still do not know the maiden name of Catherine Ann(e) Evans
And I am still missing one child.
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I have found our lot were from Berkshire .the earlier Evans I found on record was joane Evans daughter of Griffith 1613 this was another site .there are links with Devon going back .I hope its OK to post here I'm new to this and I'm finding new things daily .unsure how to post myself .l also am Annette flowers I logged on in both names by mistake,.!!.my ancestors were probably selling religion as my great grandad ended up in salvation army .but like you there is achunk missing .regards annettie
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I found this site I have screenshot it for you there is an Evans section .few dans on there plus immigration to usa and transportation to australia notes and links .cannot find mine on there .I will try find the Evans family in Devon link on Wikipedia site .may help you find Dan .
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Aran/Aaron Evans where was he in 1939 and what happened to him
I found a death for Aran Evans; Age: 62 (Est 1896) . Jan-Mar 1958 . Carmarthen
Volume: 8A . Page: 315 . Line Number: 42. Spelt the same way as pervious records, I am sure it is the right person. I have sent for the death certificate.
His wife, Martha Jane Evans (Williams) died . Age: 50 . Carmarthen Jul-Sep 1945 . Volume: 11a . Page: 870 . Line Number: 28. Although I could not find Aran, or his wife in 1939; at the time of her death, she was living at the same address as her mother in Blue Street, Carmarthen. I have sent for her death certificate, to see who registered the death.
Aran’s father Daniel, in 1939 was occupying the ’Living Van’ in Carmarthen. I found 6 deaths of a Daniel Evans registered in Carmarthen that would fit with his birth range. Checking probate, I think I have ruled out 5 of them. The only one remaining is; Daniel Evans . Age: 72 (Est. 1872) . Apr-Jun 1944 . Carmarthen . Volume: 11A . Page: 954 . Line: 136. At present, I have not sent for that death certificate.
Although he was not living with his wife, in 1939, she was also in Blue Street, Carmarthen. She died in 1940. Martha Jane Evans . Age 70 . Carmarthen Oct-Dec 1940 . Volume: 11a . Page: 1883 . Line: 76. At present, I have not sent for that death certificate.
I also found Daniel’s first wife Catherine Ann was born a Boswell. Then I found the marriage. My search had only considered a marriage before the first child was born, which was also claimed in the 1911 Census that they had been married 19 years. But the marriage was registered in Swansea 1899, after the four children had been born. I have sent for her birth certificate and their marriage certificate. On the GRO, her birth says mmn Williams, which is starting to make more sense.
On a Rootschat discussion, some have pointed to a few children being born to a Catherine with mmn Bass. There are children that fit the dates and locations of birth, which have mmn BASS; could BASS actually be Boswell? In being travellers, I accept the birth location on a Census, may not be where they were registered. There is nothing recorded with Boswell as the mmn in Wales. It is clear from my searches, some travelling families changed their names to suit the situation.
I will post more when the certificates arrive. Also information relating to Catherine Ann who I have traced with links to Machynlleth, though says born in Carmarthen.
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Having found the birth of Catherine Ann Boswell; GRO mmn Williams, I cannot find a marriage between a Boswell and Williams. It is making more sense, as I am finding other family connections that lead back to Williams. At present I have found Daniel Evans, but I cannot find Catherine Ann Boswell in the 1891 Census.
Can anyone find Catherine Ann Boswell in the 1891 Census?
Can anyone find a marriage between a male Boswell and female Williams? (Her birth was registered in Swansea which is noted in some Census records, but in 1881 it is Carmarthen. I have looked for a marriage on Family Search but nothing yet.)
I believe this is her:
1881 Census: Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
Richard Williams . Head . M . 59 . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
Eliziarbeth Williams . Wife . F . 61 . Talyllyn, Merionethshire
Catherine Ann Boswell . Grand Daughter . F . 8 (Est 1873) . Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire . Scholar
RG11 . Piece/Folio: 5477/43 . Page Number: 15
GS Film: 101775497 . Digital Folder: 101775497 . Image: 00090
1871 Census: Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
Richard Williams . Head . M . 50 (Est. 1821) . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire Stone Cutter
Elizabeth Williams . Wife . F . 53 . Talyllyn, Merionethshire
Richard Boswell . Grandson . M . 9 . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
David Boswell . Grandson . M . 7 . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
William Boswell . Grandson . M . 5 . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/5601/0100
GS Film: 000892467 . Digital Folder: 004412512 . Image: 00103
1861 Census: Graig Vach . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
Richard Williams . Head . M . 40 (Est. 1821) . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire Stone Cutter
Elizabeth Williams . Wife . F . 41 . Talyllyn, Merionethshire
David Williams . Son . M . 14 . Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire
RG09 . Piece/Folio: 4239 / 43 . Page Number: 16
GS Film: 101820085 . Digital Folder: 101820085 . Image: 00076
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The marriage certificate arrived; of 14 Aug 1899 at the Register Office, Swansea. Dates, ages and occupations all fit, but now I have her father’s name. Daniel Evans and Catherine Ann Boswell were both Licensed Hawkers living in the Travelling Van, Dyfatty Street, Swansea. His father, Edwin Evans being Basket Maker (Master) and her father, William Boswell a Showman. Witnesses: Edwin Evans and Delinda Elizabeth Tracy.
Both living in the van would be right as by then, all four of their children had been born.
They may not have actually married, but can anyone find a marriage between William Boswell and Ellen Williams? Being travellers, it could be anywhere, though probably in Wales.
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Hi I'm really sorry to bother you, my mum is trying to find about her father's side of the family and everything is matching up to this Aaron Evans? Can whoever has been looking into this, please message me and help me with this
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Hi AdelleG,
Firstly, welcome to RootsChat. We are unable to exchange Private Messages until you have posted 3 times. I have been looking into the Evans family mainly as Aran married Martha Jane Williams and she was my grandfather's sister. In records, he is spelt Aran or Aron, never Aaron. He is from a travelling family, his father being Daniel Evans and mother Catherine nee. Boswell. His grandfather was Edwin Evans who married Subie Lee. If this is the right family, place 2 more brief messages and then we can PM each other. Sorry for the delay in responding, but I am looking at other areas, though the same families.
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Thanks for getting back to me
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My mother was only told very brief things about her father. Everything she was told, I have read on this forum, so Im thinking that it must be the same man. Her mother is buried along with Aaron near where we live.
We have sent for a family search, Carmarthenshire office has contacted us recently to say that they have found things about him and have sent them in the post. So we are eagerly awaiting that.
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When Aran died, he was alone and the death was witnessed by a friend. I assume he is buried in Ammanford, but with lockdowns I have not looked. Do you know when he died?
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I believe the Aran that we know was with my Grandmother when he died. And the one that I mean is buried in Ammanford. Where are you from?
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I live in Carmarthenshire, but not close enough to Ammanford that I could visit during lockdown.
Does Gwili Avenue, Cwmgwili mean anything?
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My mother's home when she was a little girl was 2 gwili avenue, Cwmgwilli, Crosshands. We live in Ammanford and my Grandmother Queenie Bale is buried with Aaron Evans in Gorslas.
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I will send you a PM. You have posted 3 times, so it should be allowed. Give me a few minutes to write something.
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Talacharn, I have emailed you