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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: ssnowball on Saturday 15 June 19 19:13 BST (UK)

Title: Brick wall continues! George Snowball, Ovingham
Post by: ssnowball on Saturday 15 June 19 19:13 BST (UK)
Hello everyone
I have struggled for a number of years to make a connection to my 4X great grandfather, George Snowball's parentage. If anyone is able to view this brick wall with a fresh pair of eyes and give some suggestions, I'd be really grateful.
Here's what I know:
The burial of George Snowball, aged 66, of Harlow Hill, took place at St. Mary the Virgin Parish Church in Ovingham, on 10th June 1824.Based on his burial date, his date of birth is therefore around 1758.

There is no registration of his birth in the Ovingham Parish registers. George does not appear on any baptism record for any contiguous parish to St. Mary the Virgin in Ovingham, around 1758, either.

I have searched the Wills and Administrations at the District Probate Registry at Durham and searched the transcript of baptisms of St. Mary the Virgin, Ovingham from 1750-1765. There is no reference to George Snowball at either, or in the baptism records of St. Cuthbert's Allendale. Dissenters (or Non-Conformist) baptism records for Ovingham parish also reveal nothing.

George Snowball appears in Ovingham in 1786, where he is recorded at his marriage to Mary Laidlar in Ovingham Parish church and where he is stated as being 'of this parish'.
I have checked to ascertain whether George was in 18th century Ovingham prior to the date of his marriage. These include a table of rents due and paid for Ovingham Parish (giving name of farms and occupiers), the Ovingham Parish Vestry Book (1680 – 1814) which includes pew allocation records, Ovingham Account Book (1736-1813) and Ovingham Churchwardens account book (1784-1860) but all to no avail.

George Snowball and wife, Mary, went on to have three children, Mary, John and George and lived at Fulan's Moor, just north of Harlow Hill. I can only hypothesise where he might have been born and who his parents might have been, so any clues are very welcome.

Steve







Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: Raybistre on Saturday 15 June 19 19:22 BST (UK)
There is a George bapt in Boldon, Durham, on 21 Oct 1759 son of Anthony & Ann Snowball according to Familysearch. Worth checking out.
Ray
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 June 19 19:41 BST (UK)
Quote
I have searched the Wills and Administrations at the District Probate Registry at Durham and searched the transcript of baptisms of St. Mary the Virgin, Ovingham from 1750-1765. There is no reference to George Snowball at either, or in the baptism records of St. Cuthbert's Allendale. Dissenters (or Non-Conformist) baptism records for Ovingham parish also reveal nothing.

What is the relevance of St Cuthbert Allendale to your search?
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: BushInn1746 on Saturday 15 June 19 19:42 BST (UK)
Hello everyone
I have struggled for a number of years to make a connection to my 4X great grandfather, George Snowball's parentage. If anyone is able to view this brick wall with a fresh pair of eyes and give some suggestions, I'd be really grateful.
Here's what I know:
The burial of George Snowball, aged 66, of Harlow Hill, took place at St. Mary the Virgin Parish Church in Ovingham, on 10th June 1824.Based on his burial date, his date of birth is therefore around 1758.

There is no registration of his birth in the Ovingham Parish registers. George does not appear on any baptism record for any contiguous parish to St. Mary the Virgin in Ovingham, around 1758, either.

I have searched the Wills and Administrations at the District Probate Registry at Durham and searched the transcript of baptisms of St. Mary the Virgin, Ovingham from 1750-1765. There is no reference to George Snowball at either, or in the baptism records of St. Cuthbert's Allendale. Dissenters (or Non-Conformist) baptism records for Ovingham parish also reveal nothing.

George Snowball appears in Ovingham in 1786, where he is recorded at his marriage to Mary Laidlar in Ovingham Parish church and where he is stated as being 'of this parish'.
I have checked to ascertain whether George was in 18th century Ovingham prior to the date of his marriage. These include a table of rents due and paid for Ovingham Parish (giving name of farms and occupiers), the Ovingham Parish Vestry Book (1680 – 1814) which includes pew allocation records, Ovingham Account Book (1736-1813) and Ovingham Churchwardens account book (1784-1860) but all to no avail.

George Snowball and wife, Mary, went on to have three children, Mary, John and George and lived at Fulan's Moor, just north of Harlow Hill. I can only hypothesise where he might have been born and who his parents might have been, so any clues are very welcome.

Steve

Hello Steve

I'm stuck with a 4 x Gt Grandparent.

Of this Parish does not always mean much, because the residence requirement could be as little as 22 days (one week's notice to marry by Banns, then read on the same day of the week for three weeks in a row is 15 days).

Two questions:-
1) Did they Marry by Licence and if so, have you seen the Marriage Allegation / Intention and also the Marriage Bond, including the Bondsman and witness?
2) You have not mentioned the witness names at the Marriage?

Witness/es might be a church official, but many witnesses were related to the couple's family or wider family and who may have left Wills.

Mark
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: JenB on Saturday 15 June 19 20:11 BST (UK)
Quote
1) Did they Marry by Licence and if so, have you seen the Marriage Allegation / Intention and also the Marriage Bond, including the Bondsman and witness?

Marriage by Banns https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6WJR-LS?i=101&wc=9K53-BZS%3A13617901%2C29952501%2C29952502&cc=1309819
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Saturday 15 June 19 20:28 BST (UK)
Quote
I have searched the Wills and Administrations at the District Probate Registry at Durham and searched the transcript of baptisms of St. Mary the Virgin, Ovingham from 1750-1765. There is no reference to George Snowball at either, or in the baptism records of St. Cuthbert's Allendale. Dissenters (or Non-Conformist) baptism records for Ovingham parish also reveal nothing.

What is the relevance of St Cuthbert Allendale to your search?

George Snowball's bride, Mary Laidlar, was baptised at St. Cuthbert on 20th July 1760. I had wondered if the records here would give some clue.
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Saturday 15 June 19 20:52 BST (UK)
Quote

I'm stuck with a 4 x Gt Grandparent.

Of this Parish does not always mean much, because the residence requirement could be as little as 22 days (one week's notice to marry by Banns, then read on the same day of the week for three weeks in a row is 15 days).

Two questions:-
1) Did they Marry by Licence and if so, have you seen the Marriage Allegation / Intention and also the Marriage Bond, including the Bondsman and witness?
2) You have not mentioned the witness names at the Marriage?

Witness/es might be a church official, but many witnesses were related to the couple's family or wider family and who may have left Wills.


Hi Mark
Thanks for the input.
For clarity, by 4X great grandfather I mean my direct paternal grandfather going back 4 generations.
1) Marriage by Banns
2) A transcript of the marriage from the St. Mary the Virgin Parish Church records reads:
A.D.1786 married
Banns of a Marriage was published in this Church between
George Snowball & Mary Laidler both of this Parish June the 4th, the 11th & the 18th 1786 by me Chris. Gregson,  Curate
George Snowball & Mary Laidler both of this Parish were married in this church by Bannes this Twenty Fifth Day of June,
One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Six by me Chris. Gregson, Curate. Their marriage was solomised between
George Snowball (X his mark) &
Mary Laidler (X her mark)
in the Presence of us, John Laidler (X his mark) &
James Richardson (X his mark).

John Laidler is Mary's brother and James Richardson has, hitherto, given me no further clues.
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: BushInn1746 on Saturday 15 June 19 23:22 BST (UK)
Hello Steve

Not seen originals - Nine Snowball burials (one is George) at Ovingham Parish, from Ovingham, Hedley, Wylam and Hedley Grange.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Ovingham/ChurchRecords/BOVI


Two Snowball appear in the Election Register of 1832 and must have owned Land:-
Thomas Snowball of Hedley Grange
John Snowball of Hedley
Two Richardsons above
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qHRbAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=%22Hedley+Grange%22+Ovingham&source=bl&ots=jTshjXk2_I&sig=ACfU3U0SBy1n3caSJJIc_T5qCSxpFntk2g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwpYPpxOziAhVhqnEKHe5vBckQ6AEwAnoECAkQAQ


Added: About 1802 - Mr J. Smurfitt, Linen Draper, &c. of Monk Wearmouth Shore, and Lieutenant in the Durham City Loyal Volunteers, to Mrs Kay, Daughter of Mr Snowball, of Hedley, Northumberland.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DDSx3kVT1RMC&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=%22Snowball+of+Hedley%22&source=bl&ots=qW-1z7C8-9&sig=ACfU3U0v0JQlZfOVkSnYZkRCAKJgM_ahsg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilpcONyOziAhUNz4UKHZUMAv0Q6AEwA3oECAgQAQ


Added: Internet, not checked:- Thomas Snowball, of Hedley, near Stocksfield, in the county of Northumberland, Farmer and Beerhouse Keeper

Are any of the above linked to your George?

Added: North East Inheritance Database
There are a handful of Snowball Wills for Ovingham mid 18th into the 19th Century, on the North-East Inheritance Database, a Free resource.
http://familyrecords.dur.ac.uk/nei/data/simple.php

The surname Snowball is a local one to the Ovingham area. Have you viewed those Wills and Admins?

Mark
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: barryd on Sunday 16 June 19 02:30 BST (UK)
From Durham Records Online. Your George Snowball of Harlow Hill is buried. Durham Records Online. Index is free then to see the full transcript is at a reasonable price.

Baptisms
South Shields
1753
George
Snowball

East Boldon
 
Baptisms
South Shields
1759
George
Snowball

West Boldon
 
Baptisms
Chester-le-Street
1761
George
Snowball

Birtley
 
Burials
Hexham
1824
George
Snowball
abt 1758
Harlow Hill
 
1841 Census
Sunderland
1841
George
Snowball
abt 1760
Y
 
Burials
Sunderland
1844
George
Snowball
abt 1760
Bishopwearmouth
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Sunday 16 June 19 09:57 BST (UK)
barryd

Thanks for the input. I have looked at all of these but the Chester-le-Street connection is interesting.
Could it be that my George Snowball, buried in 1824 in Ovingham is the son of George Snowball (recorded as being baptised at Long Newton, Co. Durham in about 1729 or 1730 ) and his wife, Mary Robson (recorded as being born at Long Newton in about 1731 but who was certainly baptised in Chester le Street, County Durham on 3rd March 1734)?

Of course, as yet this is unproven but George Snowball and Mary Robson were married at Long Newton on 30th November 1758 and recorded as "both of this parish". George, the couple's second child, was born in Birtley, Co. Durham in 1758 and quite possibly out of wedlock. He was eventually baptised at St. Mary & St. Cuthbert Parish Church in Chester le Street, on 22nd March 1761. His father, George is given as a 'husbandman of Birtley".

It would appear that George Snowball Jnr. had an older sister, Ann Snowball, who was also born out of wedlock and baptised on 14th November 1756 at St. Mary the Virgin Parish Church in Ovingham. Her parents are recorded in the Ovingham baptism registers as "George & Mary Snowball of Hollands” So there certainly appears to be an Ovingham connection here.

There is also a recorded baptism of a second son, Anthony Snowball on 9th September 1759 in Chester Le Street.

George Snowball and Mary (nee. Robson) could well be the parents of George but I'm unsure how I could prove this.

Steve





 
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Sunday 16 June 19 09:59 BST (UK)
There is a George bapt in Boldon, Durham, on 21 Oct 1759 son of Anthony & Ann Snowball according to Familysearch. Worth checking out.
Ray

Thanks Ray
I have come across this one before but certainly worth checking out again.
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Sunday 16 June 19 10:21 BST (UK)

Not seen originals - Nine Snowball burials (one is George) at Ovingham Parish, from Ovingham, Hedley, Wylam and Hedley Grange.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Ovingham/ChurchRecords/BOVI

The surname Snowball is a local one to the Ovingham area. Have you viewed those Wills and Admins?

Mark

Thanks Mark
I have no trouble in securing links with the Snowball family post 1786, after George's wedding at Ovingham Parish church. I have tracked his entire family forwards in time and have accumulated a lot of information on each of his 3 children and their respective families and trees. The issue remains that of George's birth, birthplace and parentage, which will enable me to get back further still.

All of the above information accumulated does not give sufficient clues to an answer, which is the frustrating part. A search of the wills and administrations held at the District Probate Registry for Durham, for people with the surname of Snowball, also found no reference to the correct George Snowball, contained within the actual wills.

Steve
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 June 19 10:37 BST (UK)
Am I right in assuming that their children were all born before 1797 when Shute Barrington baptism entries began?
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Sunday 16 June 19 11:02 BST (UK)
Am I right in assuming that their children were all born before 1797 when Shute Barrington baptism entries began?

Yes, that is the case. Mary b. 1787 Fulans Moor, Harlow Hill. Baptised 7 October 1787 Ovingham.
John B.1790/91 Fulans Moor (Fewlands Moor), Harlow Hill Baptised 13 Feb 1791 Ovingham.
George b. 1793. Baptised 3 Feb 1793 Ovingham

Steve
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: JenB on Sunday 16 June 19 11:33 BST (UK)
How frustrating!
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Sunday 16 June 19 11:56 BST (UK)
How frustrating!

Tell me about it!
Even more frustrating are the number of people who are on Family Search and manage to get a link from George back to the 1500s, with no sources or verification- just a blind copying of others misguided information!
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: BushInn1746 on Sunday 16 June 19 23:27 BST (UK)
Thomas SNOWBALL, yeoman, of Woodhead in the parish of Ovingham and county of Northumberland [Ovingham, Northumberland]

Date of probate: 1781

will, 14 July 1779 (DPR/I/1/1781/S10/1-2)
with codicil, 30 July 1779
registered copy of will, 14 July 1779 (DPR/I/2/25 p595-596)


Will was written 1779.

Wife Mary Snowball ...
Two Sons called George and Thomas Snowball and Daughter Jane Snowball ...
Brother Robert Snowball of Hedley ...
and my Wife's Brother Thomas Greenwell Tallow Chandler of Newcastle ...

Witnessed by
Isabella Snowball
Surtees Newton

George Greenwell
Jane Greenwell


Is he the George Snowball you know about?

Mark
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Monday 17 June 19 13:00 BST (UK)
Thomas SNOWBALL, yeoman, of Woodhead in the parish of Ovingham and county of Northumberland [Ovingham, Northumberland]
...
Wife Mary Snowball ...
Two Sons called George and Thomas Snowball and Daughter Jane Snowball ...

Is he the George Snowball you know about?

Mark

Hi Mark
I'm aware of him but this individual is not connected. My George's wife was Mary, as was his daughter and the two sons were John & George.
Thanks for the post, though.
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 19 June 19 07:43 BST (UK)
Internet says ... Until the early 20th century the village was dominated by three estates, the owners of whom were the Duke of Northumberland, the Bedlington family and the Bigge family.
https://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/Ovingham.htm

With George Snowball moving about within the Parish of Ovingham (to have their children), it sounds like he might be working for the Landowner/s?

Some Landowners were Nonconformists, a few had their own Chapel or supported a Nonconformist Meeting place.

If Snowball didn't own his dwelling ...

Have you seen any of the Landowner records (including the Manor of Ovingham), especially Landowners Tenantry lists? For example Landowners Surveys, yearly Rentals or Accounts (if they have survived) of the Landowners and when Snowball first appears. Occasionally, if they took over the Rental of a property or plot, the previous Occupier is mentioned (around the take-over years). These might be relatives or even their Father.

Landowner records might look similar to Land Tax records, but Land Tax records only deal with Lands actually subject to Land Tax. Whereas Landowners usually include all Renting from the Landowner.

It would be unfortunate though, if Snowball rented from a person who owned a handful of properties and not one of the main Landowners.

 ----------

I see Bigge, Richardson and Snowball crop up here.
Durham Cathedral Library Surtees Manuscripts
SUR 3

f.7 Bigge of Ovingham

f.32 Snowball of Hedley Woodhead
f.35 Richardson of Bywell, Old Ridley
f.37 Richardson of Bywell

http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ark/32150_s2rr171x22v.xml
Title: Re: Brick wall continues!
Post by: ssnowball on Wednesday 19 June 19 09:55 BST (UK)

Have you seen any of the Landowner records (including the Manor of Ovingham), especially Landowners Tenantry lists? For example Landowners Surveys, yearly Rentals or Accounts (if they have survived) of the Landowners and when Snowball first appears. Occasionally, if they took over the Rental of a property or plot, the previous Occupier is mentioned (around the take-over years). These might be relatives or even their Father.

I see Bigge, Richardson and Snowball crop up here.
Durham Cathedral Library Surtees Manuscripts
SUR 3
f.7 Bigge of Ovingham
f.32 Snowball of Hedley Woodhead
f.35 Richardson of Bywell, Old Ridley
f.37 Richardson of Bywell

Hi and thanks for some interesting and helpful tips. I haven't considered or looked at the Landowner records, so this is something that I will need to pursue. The Snowballs on my side became Wesleyan, certainly from the next generation onwards after George, so also tracking the Non-Conformist landowners may provide another window of opportunity.
I have looked at the Surtees connection before, however this drew a blank. Thanks again.
Steve
Title: Re: Brick wall continues! George Snowball, Ovingham
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 19 June 19 20:24 BST (UK)
One Landowner at Ovingham was the Duke of Northumberland according to the unverified information above
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F49942