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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Brendath on Friday 14 June 19 15:53 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out where my Grandmother is buried and I believe the burial records are now at the Discovery Museum in Newcastle upon Tyne. I am unable to visit myself due to my age and I live in Leeds. Is their anyone who would be willing to get the information for me. Her name was Margaret Thompson nee Greally, she died on 28 Feb 1911 at 122 Hamilton Street, Newcastle upon Tyne, her husband was William Laidman Thompson. Thank You
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Is this her from From familysearch though burial is the date you have for her death
Margaret Thompson
Burial 28 Feb 1911
North Seaton, Northumberland, England
Age 37
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Margaret was 45 when she died so not her. Her husband William Laidman Thompson is buried in Elswick Cemetery with his youngest daughter and his granddaughter. There is no record of her being buried with them.
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I called at Newcastle library this morning on way home from nightshift as they have a number of cemetery registers. I tried Elswick and St Andrews - no success.
Very helpful new staff member got out directories and maps and thinks from address she may have been buried at Westgate Hill or St Nicholas. The first one being the option considered most likely by staff. Unfortunately, they don't have records you require for Westgate Hill and I checked St Nicholas and she is not there.
If my work hours fit in with Archives opening at some point in the next couple of months or if no one beats me to it - I will go and see if I can find her burial for you. Of
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Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this for me. If I remember the Westgate Hill Cemetery has been abandoned for many years so here's hoping there are records somewhere. Margaret is a complete mystery, my dad was 17 when she died and up until 20 years ago I didn't even know her first name. There is no birth record but her marriage certificate tells me her father Thomas Greally was a traveller. I have searched all the census records before her marriage in Jan 1891 but no trace of her anywhere. Poor woman its as if she didn't exist
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You are welcome Brendath. Let's hope that she will be at this cemetery. Based on the maps the helpful library staff member seems to think she may well be as location wise this seems to be the closest.
Just one more thing, just to completely rule out Elswick - was she Roman Catholic? It's just that now I think on yesterday I looked at the conformist burials. You mention that her Father was a traveller. I have some traveller ancestors too (from Ireland) and they were Roman Catholic. I have found that occasionally, these ancestors would turn up in Anglican records but death records seem to be back to RC mostly. If it turns out that she is not at Westgate Hill as now expected, I wonder if I should look at the Elswick RC burials?
As I say, it might be up to a couple of months when work hours fit in with my next being able to go to the archives for you. I will do my best to find her for you and will be back on this thread again then.
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Hi River Tyne Lass. I don't think she would be Catholic but you never know. She was married at All Saints in Newcastle and my dad and his sister all attended Westgate Hall Methodist Church at the Big Lamp on Westgate Hill. Unfortunately there is no one left from that side of the family, no photos nothing. Again thank you for your help.
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Hi Brendath,
I am just trying to catch up with you about where I am up to at the moment with looking into this.
Unfortunately, it turns out that Margaret is definitely not at Westgate Hill. I had to order the original volume down at the archives and neither I nor the staff could see an entry for her. To date I have now looked at every cemetery for you except Heaton and Hollywood in the Newcastle area without success - unless I have somehow managed to miss her. In time, I will also look at these too for you when I get the time and opportunity. However, at this point I would consider the possibility that she may possibly have been buried out of area, perhaps? Is there another family member who may have been buried in a different area perhaps? I have an ancestor who died in Newcastle for example but he was buried in Gateshead. I once did a look up for another person and although their ancestor died in Newcastle they were taken to be buried in a Churchyard miles away in another part of Northumberland. We would likely never have found that out without the help of the newspaper notice. Unfortunately, in your case Newcastle library has no Evening Chronicles for 1911 so there is no chance of getting to see what a possible death notice may have recorded.
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Hi
I honestly don't know where Margaret could be buried. My Grandfathers family lived in Middlesborough/Stockton but Margaret on the census 1891/1901 was said to have been born in Newcastle. Would anyone buried in a Paupers grave be on the burial records you looked at? The reason I am asking is that the only time my father mentioned his Grandparents he said that when his mother died his father had to ask them if they could help him financially so he could pay for his wife's funeral, they refused his request even though they were quite well off. I think maybe they disapproved his marriage. I have been unable to find any record of Margaret before her marriage and her wedding certificate state's her father is deceased. I think we may have to give this search up, I really don't want to waste your time any further. I can only thank you for the time you have put in. Regards Brenda
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Hi Brendath,
I will not give up for you until I have had a chance to check Heaton and Hollywood - although I think by address and location of these cemeteries, it might be unlikely.
I would say the majority of burials I look at are paupers burials that is people in unpurchased graves.
I have thought of one other possibility but this is not to say this may be the case at all .. she may have been an unclaimed body (this I believe was if there might have been no money for a funeral). I do think I have come across an unclaimed bodies register at the Archives which I think goes up to the 1930s. I can't remember now if this was for the North Tyneside or Newcastle area.
This is not to say that Margaret may not have been buried elsewhere and not be an unclaimed body. I am just thinking of all possibilities.
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Hi River Tyne Lass. In that case I will wait to here from you. Thank you again.
Regards
Brendath
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Again, just another update - I have not been able to locate Margaret unfortunately at any Newcastle Cemetery.
Just a thought, although I don't know how possible this might be - I wonder if it just might be possible that her death may have been registered twice - and that the Margaret found in the North Seaton record by Rosie may be her? I know there is a different age but on one previous occasion I do know an indisputable case of a woman in her forties given the age of 12 on Freebmd.
Of course, there might be other reasons why I have not found Margaret. It might be that despite my best efforts that I have accidently missed her or that she was buried at an unknown place, or even at a long shot she may have become an unclaimed body.
However, I would not rule out the North Seaton burial perhaps. Perhaps if someone in the Northumberland area might be able to access this burial record there might be more information which might possibly support or refute that she is your Margaret.
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Hi Many thanks for all the time you have spent looking for the burial record. As I said she has always been a mystery and it seems in death too. Yes I saw Rosie's post but apart from the age being different the burial date would have been the day she died. I will however put a post on the Northumberland look up's and see if I can get any different information about this burial.
Again Many thanks
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You are welcome Brendath. I am sorry that I have not been able to find her for you in my neck of the woods but really hope someone else may be able to do so for you.
I have occasionally come across people who were buried the same day they died so it might well be possible that this might have been the case with your Margaret.
Best of luck with this - I really hope you will get to locate her soon! :)
Added: I wonder if the Margaret who was registered in the Morpeth registration district 1911 may have had a death notice in a local paper? Unfortunately, I don't have access to the Northumberland newspapers such as the Morpeth Herald but someone might be able to access perhaps?
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The churchyard at St James Benwell was still open for burials in 1911, and it wasn't a huge distance from Hamilton Street.
I'm not sure if RTL has checked this - it's a long shot, but perhaps worth looking at?
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I'm happy to have a dig around Northumberland archives on Wednesday if this would be useful.
Christine
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Yes, Jen I did look at St James, Benwell (when I was at the archives) too but could not find her there, unfortunately.
That is great that you are going to have a try at helping with this Christine - thankyou!
What I am now wondering is if someone in the family may have registered her death in Newcastle but another member of the family registered the death in the Morpeth registration district and that the burial at North Seaton may be the Margaret we are looking for, perhaps.
If so, this might turn out to a positive Brendath as the burial might possibly lead you to other ancestors, -relations of Margaret - you may not yet know about.
I suppose it all now depends on what Christine may be able to find out on Wednesday. :)
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Many thanks Christine for offering your help. RTL has been brilliant but I think she has reached the end of the road in Newcastle.
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I can't spend too much time this week as I have to be elsewhere by early afternoon but we'll see what North Seaton shows. We can always widen the search later as I'm normally at the archives once a week
Christine
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I am so sorry but I wasn’t able to look at North Seaton cemetery records today. For reasons best known to themselves they were using the whole of the top section of the search room to do video interviews. So all the index books, microfilms, readers and most of the reference books were off limits. Staff said they would probably be over by 2 but I had to leave before then.
A lot of the records have now been digitised and are available on a single computer, fortunately situated in the other part of the room. I used this for other research but North Seaton cemetery hasn’t been digitised yet.
If you still want me to look I can do so next week.
Christine
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I finally got to look for this burial but it’s not at North Seaton Cemetery, it’s listed in the burial register of St. John’s church, Seaton Hirst. I understand that the newer civil cemetery is just behind the churchyard.
The age is definitely 37 but there is also an address - 158 Medway Street. Obviously this isn’t the address you have but I checked it out on the 1911 census (just a few weeks later) and there is a family of three called Mather plus another family of 3 as lodgers called Armstrong. Where/how Margaret Thompson would fit I can only guess - another lodger or a visitor perhaps.
Christine
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There is a Thompson family living next door at 160 Medway Street - any relation?
Greally is an Irish name. Perhaps Margaret said she was born in Newcastle for the censuses but was born elsewhere - possibly Ireland or Liverpool area?
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I think this is a completely different Margaret. The burial record has confirmed the age at death as 37. Medway Street was in Hirst, which was in Morpeth RD.
Brenda knows that her Margaret was 45 when she died, which is confirmed by her age on the 1901 census, and that she died in Newcastle upon Tyne RD.
In the 1911 census her widower and children are living in Elswick.
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Thank you Christine it was a long shot but at least I can dismiss that burial. Goodness knows where my grandmother is buried. She had 2 babies who died in the 1890's so maybe she was buried with them but goodness knows where they are. Thank you for your interest and the time you have spent on this. Best Wishes Brenda
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JenB Yes the family moved not long after Margaret's death. I was born in the downstairs flat they moved to and my dad lived there until his death in 1968 and my mum until 1972. We always referred to the area as Arthurs Hill as it was between Westgate Hill and the Barrack Road. Many happy memories.
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Finally, I have found Margaret!! :D
I think you must have accidentally given us the wrong death date initially! Never mind, we all make mistakes .. ;D
Elswick Cemetery
Entry 42945
Margaret Thomson
Female
43 years
122 Hamilton Street
Buried January 31 1911
Section L grave 49
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Well done RTL, given where she was living I was really surprised when she wasn’t found earlier at Elswick.
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Brilliant RTL, you really have come up trumps with this one :-)
Boo
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Thanks Jen and Boo for your kind comments.
I do hope we have not lost Brendath for whatever reason, I see she has not been on here since July. :-\
I intend to put this burial info on a postem today in the hope that she might see it one day even if she is no longer be on RootsChat possibly. I think it would be a shame for Brendath if she misses out on knowing that her Grandmother has been located after all.
It would be interesting to know if Brendath had got the original information from a birth certificate and had accidentally posted on here the death as 28 Feb instead of 28 January (if that was what it was) or perhaps was just giving the date which may have erroneously been given to her perhaps? These things happen.
A notion just popped in my head yesterday (when I was searching for something else) that Brendath had given us the wrong info and that I should be searching backwards and not forwards. So pleased when I gave this a try and got the desired result! Let's only hope that Brendath will get to find this out too. :)
I have noticed that Margaret appears two years younger on the burial record and that she is down as Thomson and not Thompson but I think we can safe conclude from the address that this is her.
Added: There ... I have added the burial as a postem - hopefully, this should be showing against her death entry on Freebmd at some point within the next 24 hours.
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Thank you so much River Tyne Lass. It was my mistake I'm Afraid 27th instead of 28th, so sorry. I must find out if she has a headstone though I doubt it as the other family grave doesn't although someone from the Cemetery's Dept at the Civic Centre showed me where my Grandfather, Aunt and Cousin's grave was. He told me that they were looking at reusing old graves so I hope that is not the case here. I really cannot thank you enough you have been so kind. All the best
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Well done RTL ;D ;D
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http://www.margaret-hall-genealogy.com/USERIMAGES/Elswick%20&%20St%20John%20Cemetery%20-%20Newcastle%20upon%20Tyne(4).jpg
Brendath, the death turned out to be a month out rather than a day out. ;D ;) However, don't worry about this, I am sure this would have been an honest slip-up when you made your first post. I am just so pleased for you, as I am sure we all are, that you have at last been able to find exactly where your Grandmother is.
https://www.newcastle.gov.uk/services/births-deaths-and-marriages/bereavement-services/contact-bereavement-services
I have attached a link with contact info on just in case you might not have this. They might be able to let you know if there might be a grave stone hopefully.
Flemming, thank you too for your kind comment. :)
Brendath, it seems you have put a good search in yourself to find out about Margaret's life pre-marriage but have you considered asking for help on here about this?
If you do ever decide one day to seek further help in finding out more about Margaret's mysterious early life on here - don't forget to include all you know to date on any written recordings that you might have.
Best Wishes
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http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk/cgi-bin/ML_search.cgi?year=1891&qtr=1&vol=10b&page=121&search=search
Perhaps this might be another accidental slip - you have mentioned in post 6 that Margaret married at All Saints - however Marriage Locator is indicating marriage actually took place at Christ Church.
Just letting you know for your records. :)
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Family Search agrees it was Christ Church
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXHX-K5Y
Boo
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Hi River Tyne Lass. Again thank you for the information. I got on touch with the Bereavement Services, (Gill Harrison) at the Civic Centre. She cannot find her burial in Section L or any of the other section's beginning with L, so would you be kind enough and check that the section is correct. She ask where the information came from and did I have a scan. I feel awful contacting you again after all the time you have given to this search. So near and yet so far.
Regards
Brenda
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I'm rather surprised that Bereavement Services haven't looked at the alphabetical index of burials at Elswick. RTL has provided the exact date of burial and the entry number so they could surely find her that way?
Have they checked both sections L? There is one 'consecrated' L and one 'unconsecrated 'L'.
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I am a bit mystified.
The Elswick grave registers are online via Family Search. Unfortunately the burial index for the relevant years isn't online.
There are two 'L' registers, presumably for each of the two sections, consecrated and unconsecrated. It is unclear on FS which is which.
Here are the relevant pages:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-43HL-N?i=377&cat=828351
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1L-3393-L?i=931&cat=828351
No Margaret Thompson in L 49 in either :-\
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I think the spelling is Thomson.
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I think the spelling is Thomson.
I apologise.
However, having spent quite some time looking at the burial registers for you, I think you might excuse me that little error :)
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It looked like L 49 to me. It was in the unconsecrated register. However, I will check again as soon as I next get a chance to get back to this library at some point in the next few weeks - just in case I have mis read. I will even ask staff at the local studies for second opinion next time. It seems strange it can't be found. ???
I saw it and she was buried on 31 January. Hopefully, things will finally be sorted for you soon and you will be able to discover if she has a stone.
Nothing seems to have run smoothly with this one - however, I am confident all will be resolved soon. :)
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I'm rather surprised that Bereavement Services haven't looked at the alphabetical index of burials at Elswick. RTL has provided the exact date of burial and the entry number so they could surely find her that way?
What I should have referred to, of course, is not an 'alphabetical' list of burials, but the burial index, which was compiled in date order. All your contact needs to do is to look at this, for the 31st January 1911 and she should find entry 42945 which RTL found for you in reply #25.
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Just to thank everyone for their help and kind comments. The Bereavement Dept have now found the grave in Section Z grave 49. Evidently the letter was hard to decipher. They haven't mentioned if there is a headstone but really all I wanted to know was where she was buried. I must now draw a line under her as I will never know for certain anything else about her. My daughter has promised to take me to Newcastle next year so we can visit her last resting place and lay some flowers. Again many thanks.