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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: forestchild on Wednesday 12 June 19 12:55 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find out more about my 5x great grandfather John Cattell who lived in Preston Bagot in the late 17 hundreds.
His eldest son Nicholas Hains Cattell was my 4x gr grandfather. His baptism gives parents as John and Sarah. I think Sarah was Sarah Mortiboys b Packwood 1750. She married a John Cattell in Warwick in 1771 and this fits with Nicholas being born 1772. The Mortiboys were from Nuthurst and 2 of Nicholas's brothers later moved to that area. Also several of the children's names are Mortiboy family names.
I haven't been able to find a possible baptism for John. One person on Family Search claims he is the John Cattell b Coventry 1750 but I have found no grounds for this claim and Coventry is quite a distance from Preston Bagot.
I did a search for a Cattell Hains marriage as I assume Nicholas's middle name was a maiden name of a family member. Since it isn't his mother's name I thought maybe grandmother. I found a marriage of a William Cattell to an Ann Haines in Kinwarton nr Alcester in 1722. This is about 8 miles from Preston Bagot and seemed likely but I can't find any trace of this couple after their marriage. There is a Hains family in Alcester in the 1800 who are malsters and Nicholas was a malster, that's interesting.
Nicholas married Mary Dadley and her brother's son Henry married a Jane Haines b 1816 whose father was a malster. I wondered if there was a connection there.
Can anyone with access to parish records for this part of Warwickshire help?
I'm looking for a possible baptism for John and also his death record in the hope that it gives his age at death. He almost certainly died in Preston Bagot as Sarah was living there when she died in 1839.
I'm also searching for any trace of William and Ann after their marriage.
I would also like to find the parents of Janes's father John to see if there was a link.
I've been trying to get further with this branch of my tree for years. Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
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Hi
Here's the children of John and Sarah at PB
Nicholas 21.5.1772
William 9.4.1775
Elizabeth 8.3.1778
Joseph 18 .3.1781-27.3.1781
Mary 91 .5.1782
Ann and Sarah twins 15 Feb 1785 (Ann bur 3.3.1785)(Sarah 5.3.1785)
John 17.7.1786 -23.7.1786
Mabel 17.7.1786 buried same day
Isaac and Rebecca twins 28 .4.1788 (Rebecca buried the 30th)
Joseph 26 Sep 1792
Possible burial for John 7.6.1797 Apparently his grave has survived and is on Warwickshire Monumental index
Possible Will proven 18 May 1802 at Worcester Archives
Wife Sarah 22.2.1839 age 88 year and her grave has survived as well.Her Will is definitely at the Hive. 18 May 1839.
He rents land first of Mr Bowden in 1773 onwards and then Sir Edward Smythe from 1790
In 1774 he appears in the jurors list
John Cattell constable Preston Baggott
He is there in the gamekeepers register in 1787.
Also in parish Joseph and Martha - John 19.7.1758,Thomas bapt 20.1.1760 buried 2.3.1760
They married 14 June 1757 at PB her name Martha Findon of Claverdon
wit James Findon and John Alliband.
Bapt for Joseph to Thomas and Mary at Wooten Wawen 28 Nov 1734 ?
Martha buried at Claverdon 27.1.1759/60 wife of Joseph Cattle
Possible burial for Joseph 9.3.1817 at Beaudesert of Henley In Arden.Again the gravestone has survived.
Juror there 1773 malster and also 1776,1790 and up to 1792
A draft copy of a Will he made in 1791 in in Birmingham Archives
MS 3069/Acc1930-022/373561
Thomas and Mary -William 29 Feb 1747 bapt privately He died 17.3.1747
Daughter Mary buried 13.5.1744
Thomas is renting land of Mr Bowden until 1775.
Possible Will of Thomas Cattle of Beaudesert 23 July 1782 at Worcester Archives
I'll see what else I can spot
Ciderdrinker
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Hi
The Alcester marriage gives them both of Beoley Worcestershire
Possible apprenticeship 1721 of William Kettle of Alcester to Nicholas Battman cooper of Alcester .William's father William.
But that may be a different chap as he seems to marry at Kinwarton in 1731 to an Elizabeth Brandown.
Not finding anything in Beoley.
I think you are right about the John Cattell so Joseph as there is a Will for a Joseph Cattell 1783 .
This gives two wives for John ,Elizabeth dec grandson John and Ann present wife grandson Joseph.
Of course it may not be the same family.
Ciderdrinker
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Right Cracked it!!
Found the will 1817 for Joseph Cattell malster of Henley in Arden.
He is rolling in it.He owens land Henley,Claverdon,Rowington and Grosford in Denbighshire which is why his Will is proven before the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Joseph has remarried to a Mary Gardener of Rowington by licence 16.4.1763 at Beaudesert
They have two children I can find Mary 10.9.1766 and Ann 6.9.1769.
They must have died because he doesn't mention them in his Will.
His wife Mary is buried at Beaudesert 26.3.1801 and her grave stone still survives.
Mother Mary seems also to have been buried 2.6.1791 and her grave is still there.
But back to the Will -made 13 Feb 1817
His housekeeper Sarah Ryder gets to live in his main residence for life but after her death it goes to
Nicholas Hains Cattell my nephew.
Nephews Issac and Joseph Cattell get £15 pa annuity from the rents of other properties.
Lots of properties go to the nephews and their heirs.
nieces Elizabeth and Mary Cattell mentioned
Then there is the grandson William Cattell and his children which seem to be under 21.Him I can't trace.
So John must be Joseph's brother.
Baptisms at Wooton Wawen
John 8.4.1733 s of Thomas and Mary indexed at Catler but is the same couple on the image.
Joseph 28 Nov 1834 s of Thomas and Mary Cattel
Possible other children at Welford on Avon
Mary 30.12.1730,Anne 21.3.1735,Richard 30.4.1738,Thomas 22.2.1739.Mary 23.5.1742,John 25.2.1745.
Not sure if they are the same couple but there is only one Joseph Cattell born 1734/5 to fit with his burial and that's the one at Wooton Wawen.
Ciderdrinker
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Thank you so much for all of this information Ciderdrinker.
I was thinking after your first 2 posts that Nicholas may have been Joseph's nephew as he was also a maltster in Beaudesert in 1802 and I knew his father was a John. I was just about to post when I saw your last post.
I am still wondering how Nicholas got his name. Surely there must be a Hains connection somewhere, but perhaps it was a close friend, maybe a Godfather. Nicholas doesn't appear to be a family name either and he was the eldest son unless John had an earlier marriage.
I must visit the Preston Bagot/Beaudesert area to see the gravestones.
Forestchild
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I have also been researching the Cattells of Preston Bagot for the past few years, and have also had difficulty finding John's Father, and am interested in looking into the wills mentioned in this recent conversation, as I had looked at Thomas and Mary as likely Parents, but had no idea how to actually prove a family connection.
I am also having great difficulty in locating some burials. Isaac, Nicholas Hains Cattell's younger Brother is my 4X Great Grandfather, I know where and when he and his wife Ann died, but have had no success in finding theirs, or Brother William and Nicholas's burials.
Can anyone point me in the right direction on this? It would be great to be able to get the whole picture.
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Hello
The Will is on Ancestry or at the National Archives at Kew site or pm me with your email and I'll pass it on.
The only burial i can find is William's .He dies at Stratford upon Avon and familysearch has a burial that fits 20 Oct 1862 but only location is England.
So I'd look at churches there that aren't on FindMyPast or Ancestry
Ciderdrinker
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Thanks for this, I have a copy of one of the wills you mentioned yesterday, that of Joseph Cattell, who describes Nicholas Hains Cattell as his nephew, which certainly proves he was John's Brother. I find the handwriting terribly difficult and am grateful to you for outlining it's content!!
I have been through a copy of the Parish register from Preston Bagot and already had details of Joseph's marriage to Martha Findon, but had no idea that he had married again, and now realise I had already found his and second wife, Mary's grave.
William's grave is one I am really struggling with, I know he died in Stratford, he owned property there, I have seen his will, but can find no trace as yet of where he is actually buried.
It's a work in progress, but thanks once again for this possible further generation.
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Hi,
Cattellfamsearch we are 5th cousins. Nicholas is my 4x great grandfather. I have also been trying to find the burials. With regard to Nicholas I don't even know when or where he died as it appears to be before 1837. He moved to West Bromwich between 1802 and 1809. His wife Mary died there in 1828 but he just disappears.
I found a possible marriage for William in West Bromwich in 1820 to a Hannah Fisher. Could she be a sister of Isaac's wife? I also found Isaac Cattell witness to marriage of Sarah Cattell to Richard Butler in West Bromwich in 1827, could that be your Isaac?
Forestchild
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Hi,
It appears we are indeed cousins through the Cattell family, but I think you are a little way ahead of me in your search.
I'm almost sure William never married, I could be wrong of course, it certainly wouldn't be the first time, but I've seen some of his personal papers and can find no evidence of a wife.
Nicholas is much more complicated, in later years he appears on an electoral register for 1837 which gives his abode as West Bromwich, and another in 1839 states Henley in Arden. But then if he owned property in both places, could he vote in both?? I have investigated one or two Mary Cattell burials, as this is a more common name, but am not convinced they are Nicholas's wife. I was thinking they might be buried together somewhere, as lots of the others are.
On a more positive note, the wills mentioned by ciderdrinker have certainly been helpful in confirming the Preston Bagot and Beaudersert origins.
I think my next step might be to visit Sandwell Archives to see what burial records they have for the West Bromwich area, as I've had no luck online.
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Hi to All, just to add my name into the mix as I also believe John Cattell was my 4th great grandfather. I have just returned to double check details of relationships and came across this thread. Clearly I need a re-visit my records as I believed Joseph was the father of John born the year prior to Martha’s death. This is clearly complicated by the common use of the same Christian names carried down.
Just to add info, I spent time in Claverdon during the summer when I trawled the graveyards in the area, having previously found the grave in Preston Bagot of Joseph and Hannah Kemp. I have photos of the church, graveyard and graves in Preston Bagot. Having walked directly to this grave previously, I was shocked when I walked almost immediately to the grave of Joseph in Beaudesert. For info Beaudesert and Preston Bagot churches were always linked, and even though Henley-in-Arden is about 200 metres from Beaudesert, parishioners from there were buried at I have lots of photos of the graves I have found which I’m happy to share. I searched for graves of the families Cattell, Mortiboys, Findon and Hands - All of whom appear interlinked along the line. Apart from the above I also visited Claverdon AND of great interest Lapworth. At Lapworth I found a grave of a William Cattell who, along with his wife was headmaster at Lapworth School (worth a google). Previously John Mortiboys was headmaster which adds to the families links. I also have photos of Williams grave, but do not think this is the missing William as he was born much later. As stated I’ve got lots of photos that I’m happy to share. I go down from the Isaac line and my family moved away to Darfield, Yorkshire. I would recommend a visit to all the graveyards, they all have historic and family interest. Will trawl through all the info in the thread to check where I have gone wrong and post again. Glad to meet you all, Marilyn
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Correction
“Henley-in-Arden is about 200 metres from Beaudesert, parishioners from there were buried at......”
Missed out
Claverdon which is about 2-3 miles away. Henley in Arden has never had a churchyard.
Should add I also went to the visitor centre and the churches of Arden offices on the high street in Henley. Interesting but not much information, On my next visit I will try direct access to the local priests of the churches. Marilyn
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Hi Maz, u and I must have a close connection as Isaac is my 4x Great Grandfather on th maternal side of the family.
I have visited many of the places you mention and am aware of the graves at Preston Bagot and Beaudesert, but am anxious to find Williams, Nicholas and Mary and Isaac and Ann's graves, as I have visited all the likely places and drawn a blank. Have you had any success with any of these?
I found the wills mentioned in Cider drinkers posts most helpful, they certainly confirm that Joseph was John's Brother, a fact that I hadn't been able to prove until now, even though they both lived and farmed in Preston Bagot.
I have not done so much research on the Mortiboys, or Hands side of the family, and have not found any burials at all.
I am aware that some of the family "migrated" to Yorkshire, although, again I haven't followed this up yet.
Good to speak to you, nice to know there are others out there with an interest in the family.
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Hi there, thanks for reply. Before we plan a family reunion, please could I check with you that the Isaac (1788-1878) you refer to is the same one. Married to Anne Fisher (1796-1880). I have to ask as I believed that John (his father) was the the son of Joseph and Martha (they did have a son John) so my tree has now been blown away. If your Isaac is the same one, I am a product of Josiah (1833-1906) and Charlotte Dyer. Where do you sit after Isaac? I’ve got lots more investigating to do, but really went further than I imagined after a weekend away at Billesley Manor and spotted a sign for Preston Bagot that just rang a bell on my then, loose investigations. It was the grave at Preston Bagot that really caught my interest. I have scoured that graveyard twice now for more graves, so I think any other of the Cattell family buried there would have been buried close by or adjacent. There is clearly a very large void surrounding the grave with no headstones. It would have been normal to have a family plot and the remaining grave is too close to the church to not have had burials. I’m glad you have visited Preston Bagot it is in such a beautiful setting. Re William(1814-1860) and John Mortiboys (1761-1844) link with Lapworth school (see rowingtonrecords.com), I am now going to search back from there as I think more may be found. Incidentally when I found Williams grave at Lapworth I stumbled over what I thought was a tree stump which turned out to be an overgrown flat grave of his young daughter Katherine. I have photos of Lapworth church and graves etc as also Beaudest and Preston Bagot. I’m going to have a busy weekend now trying to re-organise my tree!