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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: aj57 on Monday 03 June 19 06:08 BST (UK)

Title: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Monday 03 June 19 06:08 BST (UK)
Hi ,
      I have previously posted abt this family many years ago & still have not found them.????

   
      George Muir was b abt 1800 Biggar, Scotland, he died 1866 Wishaw.

      His parents were William Muir & Margaret Donaldson, i can not find any more info abt them.
     
                   (except both deceased on George's death certificate).
 
      I have also been looking for the missing 2 sons of George : John & Peter????

      I have all the certificates from SP for the following:
 
      George Muir m Elizabeth Robb 1827 Lanark,

 Children  : William 1830- 1912
               : John    1832 -???
               : James   1835 -1915
               : George  1837 -1923
               : Peter     1839 -???

      Elizabeth Robb died 1839-1843

      George's 2nd marriage to Mary Brown 1843 Lanark. ( Mary died 1883)

Children : Thomas     1844-1934
             :  Andrew     1846-1901
             : Margaret   1852-1912

 Any suggestions would be welcomed, i have hit a brick wall & not sure where to look next.
 
   aj

Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 03 June 19 07:12 BST (UK)
Ooh this is interesting could your William Muir b1830 be the birth father of my great grandmother
Margaret Muir Love b1857 Lanarkshire


Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 03 June 19 07:20 BST (UK)
I couldnt find a.family for him
name as a sailor deceased on
Maggie muir LOVE her marriage to Donald Mckay

He died at sea . ive posted record on my.aunts tree ancestry


MaryMacandchap
several dna links have the Muir name but now i.ll look out for the names George william senior   & John too on the trees which are accessible

it says d*"' ter at sea
3rd aug 1857

Maybe brothers were sailors too .wife may have reverted to her maiden name with children
Some of my ancestors did that .
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 03 June 19 07:36 BST (UK)
Have you seen 1841 census for
Wistow parish lanks ?

Some childrens names & ages roughly tally.
But adults are william.and margaret

I only have ancestry transcription not seen SP
William 40
Margaret 37
James 12
John.10
Thomas 8
William * 6
Catherine
George & peter 3mths

Could be 2 families combined
What professions do you have for george or william senior ?

Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: wivenhoe on Monday 03 June 19 08:52 BST (UK)

Census Scotland 1851  @ Overtown Lanarkshire
MUIR George       head   47y   CRW servant         b. Biggin Lanark
MUIR Mary          wife    47y                               b. Parish of Lanark
MUIR Peter          son    12y    farm servant         b. Parish of Lanark
MUIR Thomas      son      6y                               b. Parish of Lanark
MUIR Andrew     son      4y                                b. Cambusnethan, Lanark
                     
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: loobylooayr on Monday 03 June 19 09:12 BST (UK)
Hi ,

There is a Peter Muir with a year of birth circa 1839 and born in Lanarkshire on the 1861 Census at Shotts in Lanarkshire and on the 1871 Census at Stonehouse , Lanarkshire.
Could this be your Peter?

Looby  :)
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Monday 03 June 19 10:10 BST (UK)
William Muir b1830 m Mary Braid 1854 (Mary d 1877)
William m2 - 1882 to Catherine McLean
William died 1912 age 81 at  Renfrew.

I have the 1841 census- "linnhead' Lanarkshire
George Muir    35  Ag Lab
William Muir    11
John Muir         9
James              7
George             5
Peter                3


 
    i have the 1851 census posted by Wivenhoe - thank you .



In 1861 "overtown" Wishaw -Cambusnethan

George Muir   59   Railway servant       Biggar
Mary Brown    59   Wife                       Lanark
Thomas          16   Pupil Teacher           "
Andrew           14   Pupil Teacher          Overtown
Margaret          8    Scholar                  "


There must be a connection with brigidmac posting as their children's names are nearly identical. Maybe William was George's brother?

 I stopped Ancestry last year -  so i cant look it up, can you find the next census 1851 with that family?
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: sarah on Monday 03 June 19 10:24 BST (UK)
Here is a link to the other topic
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=64035.0

Sarah
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 03 June 19 11:02 BST (UK)
I think they may be cousins .?

Sailor william aged 6 in.1841 Wistow
Named after his father william the farmer

 elder brothers john and james
After grandfathers
Thomas Peter and george may be names of great grandfather.

I thought sailor Wilm might be married with another family but he died same year as  daughter Maggie "Muir " LOVE was born .I think he was unmarried.

Her mother Margaret LOVE had 3 children
never married

Found them in 1861/71 living with grandmother using birth fathers or mothers name .

I HAVE PURPLE BLOBBED all dNa matches which come up as sharing Muir name even ones with private trees ..
Hope to do some triangulation later today


Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: Forfarian on Monday 03 June 19 11:59 BST (UK)
I have previously posted abt this family many years ago & still have not found them.????
Can you please include a link to all previous threads about this George Muir family?

If you start new threads that continue previous ones, then you will send people off looking up and duplicating information you already have, which is a waste of their time and everyone else's who then have to read through the same information several times. Also people who provided information on the previous threads will not be notified of any new information.

The best thing to do if you want to revive an old query is to add a new post on that existing thread, then people who see it will be able to see what has already been found, and the people who provided information on the original thread will be alerted to anything new.
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Tuesday 04 June 19 02:18 BST (UK)
The last thing i want is for people to waste their time - i posted a new thread as when i posted before i was just starting & not all the info i had could be proven & there was a mixture of different occupations, family stories etc.

Some of the replies i received before were very helpful -eg census,but no information was found.

Also at the time i didn't realise George was married twice.

Now i am more prepared with information /certificates, i wanted to start fresh.

I got William's death certificate ( brigidmac's posting of 1841 census) to see if William might have been George's brother.

William m Margaret Lindsay 1828, at Wiston & Roberton.
Children : James               27/4/1829
             : John                 22/10/1830
             : Thomas            17/11/1832
             : William             15/10/1834
             : Catherine          3/9/1837
             : George             10/3/1841
             : Robert (Peter) ? 10/3/1841

William died 4th Dec 1862,Wiston.
parents : James Muir ( farmer) dec
            : Betty Lamb               dec


James & Betty m 6/6/1784@ Carmichael
Children  : Betty 1785
              : James 1787
              : John  1789
              : Isobel 1791
              : Thomas  13/8/1793
              : William  13/8/1793




Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 04 June 19 06:35 BST (UK)

"George's 2nd marriage to Mary Brown 1843 Lanark."

How have you confirmed that this is a second marriage for George MUIR?
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Tuesday 04 June 19 08:27 BST (UK)
Yes , George married twice.
 Elizabeth died between 1839-1843 ?, Mary Brown was his neighbour.

I have nearly all the D & M certificates & a front page of a family bible register that lists - George Muir , Elizabeth Robb, Mary Brown.


It also has the 8 children's birth dates from 1830 -1852,   but i could only find the births for Andrew & Margaret registered at Wishaw. No reg birth records for any other children.
 MUIR
ANDREW
GEORGE MUIR/MARY BROWN
Birth   17 AUGUST 1846
Bap   6 SEPTEMBER 1846
WISHAW RELIEF
LANARK

MUIR
MARGARET
GEORGE MUIR/MARY BROWN
 Birth 17 APRIL 1852
 Bap  25 APRIL 1852
WISHAW RELIEF
LANARK

    George was born at Biggar abt 1800's & between 1844-1846 moved to Overton, Cambusnethan.
 
    George's son George ( b1837)  a photo of his home shows "Nemphlar" Lanark, &

     Thomas (1844) newspapers shows his birth as Stonebyres , Fall of Clyde & sometimes Biggar.
 
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 04 June 19 08:54 BST (UK)
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS8544 and
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=55.6799&lon=-3.8223&layers=5&b=1 may be of interest.

Biggar https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NT0437 is 15 miles or so from Nemphlar
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=55.6239&lon=-3.5248&layers=5&b=1

Overto(w)n https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS8052
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=55.7579&lon=-3.9163&layers=5&b=1
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 04 June 19 09:06 BST (UK)
Don't forget that if John and/or Peter died or emigrated before 1855, there may not be any surviving records of them.
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 04 June 19 10:30 BST (UK)
Im getting confused
Do you mean william the elders death

Im calling mine Sailor william son of farmer william
To distingush

Aged 6 on the 1841 census .
Was that the right George for you
If so i.ll refer to him as George the
twin to distinguish from all the coisins uncles and nephew georges we are now finding .
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 04 June 19 11:20 BST (UK)
Twins are in 2 generations

Have i understood that sailor william b1835 with twin brothers
Son of margaret Lindaay and william muir
Was grandson of james and betty Lamb

So cousin to your George son of twice married george
Farmer William & george m Eliz then mary Robb were brothers

So we must be 6th cousins or something ...i.ll work it out .no thru lines on ancestry yet but if i add these names to my tree something may come up .
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Tuesday 04 June 19 11:37 BST (UK)
 Forfarian , :) Thank you so much for the map links, i agree John & Peter might have died early, nothing was written on bible transcript but i only had the front page.


brigidmac. I sent you info abt farmer william.( he died 4th dec 1862) Is that your family ?
 

  Sailor William parents were William Muir & Margaret Lindsay.
  Farmer William parents were James & Betty Lamb.


My George was b1800 & parents were William Muir & Margaret Donaldson
son of My George was born 1837 & parents were George Muir & Elizabeth Robb

There is a connection but not brothers.
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 04 June 19 12:08 BST (UK)
I link to someone called ajm1507
As 4th to 6th cousin on ancestry but they only have 7 people on their tree no Muirs

33cm


However they do share links with others with Muirs on their trees
One who has 3rd cousin link to me ..but closed tree ....i.ll check if my aunt has closer links
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: Lodger on Tuesday 04 June 19 19:04 BST (UK)
George Muir is buried in the little "Private" walled burial ground that sits between the old churchyard and the new cemetery at Cambusnethan. I don't think there is a gravestone but I will go and have a look. I have photographed many of the stones there but have nothing on file for him.

The following information is taken from the gravedigger's day book -

GEORGE MUIR, waggon greaser, Wishaw, aged 66 years, married.
Parents - William Muir & Margaret Donaldson.
interred in the Private, plot 310, on 8th August 1866.

Also in that plot are the following -

WILLIAM COLE, miner, Watsonville, (parish of) Hamilton, aged 56 years, married.
Parents - John Cole & Agnes Ruedick.
Interred in Private 310 on 23rd May 1874.

MARY MUIR, housewife, Glasgow, aged 79 years, widow.
Parents - James Brown & Rachel Paterson.
Interred in Private 310 on 8th May 1883.

Hope this helps? I have no idea who William Cole could be.  Watsonville, although technically in the parish of Hamilton at that time, was actually in the town of Motherwell.
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 04 June 19 23:45 BST (UK)
I wonder who.Mary Muir was married to
Could william cole be her first husband ?

Im still looking at my Dna found some with Muir names  but not confirmed my sailor william.s parentage ..

.his death at sea record states £9 & shillings and pence presumably that is his pay owed.how can i find who it was paid to ???
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Thursday 06 June 19 12:08 BST (UK)
Mary Muir was George Muir's wife ( as previous message ) they married in 1843.

I purchased William Cole death certificate from SP & he was married to Jane Graham ,checked census . ( both from Ireland).
I couldn't find a connection between William & George.

I was sent picture of George's headstone years ago ,only the top half was readable ,so if you are able to take another photo that would be appreciated.

George was killed instantly when he was caught accidentally between the buffers of two wagons of a mineral train at the siding. So i assumed The Caldonian Railway paid for the headstone?
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: aj57 on Thursday 06 June 19 12:12 BST (UK)
Message for Lodger-

Could you please check your book, are there any other Muir's in Cambusnethan Cemetery.?

Thank you
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: Lodger on Thursday 06 June 19 18:21 BST (UK)
aj57, you'd have to be a bit more precise, it's a huge cemetery. I will only search if you can give me a male muir with his wife's maiden surname, otherwise it's too time consuming.
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 09 June 19 07:30 BST (UK)
Whenever you come across a Muir when.looking for something else would you mind posting

There was no stall for Scotland or for ancestry or rootschat at NEC birmingham genealigy conference .
I got an.appt with a genealogy wizard but.finding burial oj jewish grandad in Wales a priority.Scottish  deaths.can wait they .ll still be there.Thanks B
Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 17 September 19 10:35 BST (UK)
Sailor William is still confusing me

In 1864 William Muir age 26 was applying for poor relief with wife
Margaret LINDSAY age 24
And sons Thomas b1861 and baby William it says he is son of Thomas  Muir forrester. and Mary Baird deceased.

So I think .i.ll have to rewrite my tree a bit

Thoma Muir married to Mary Baird was williams twin so the grandparents
Are the same.

But  it s  not my sailor William

Title: Re: Need Help - been looking for over 10 yrs , still cant find them!
Post by: pme50 on Tuesday 03 December 19 10:26 GMT (UK)
I was interested to read the entire thread of your long quest for information on George Muir and his father, William Muir.
I am a South African origin great-grandson of Thomas Muir (TM), George's son (born at Nemphlar, Lanark 25 August 1844). At this stage I have no additional details on George or his father, but am now trying to get a local historian to look for very specific information in the Biggar/Lanark area. It looks as if there may be very little prospect of success given your long search! An Australian granddaughter of TM's second son, Thomas Paterson Brown Muir b. Erskine, Renfrewshire, 7 April 1885, has been searching as long as you have been, and has also drawn a blank on this information.
One thing however: In a 1906 article, I believe based on an interview with TM, it is stated that George's father William was a souter (I understand this is a shoemaker) in Biggar, whereas you say he was estate manager at Symingtoune (which I believe is near Biggar). I can provide you with a copy of the article, which also gives some information on William's supposed involvement in a church schism in Biggar, and suggests a family connection with the earlier Muirs of Annieston. I have no idea whether this is more than fantasy!
In turn I would be interested to see the front page of the family bible register that lists - George Muir , Elizabeth Robb, Mary Brown: Is it a document that is still in a known location?