RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: katarina on Tuesday 16 August 05 10:02 BST (UK)

Title: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Tuesday 16 August 05 10:02 BST (UK)
I'm in a pickle! I looked at the form that i have to complete for a copy of my fathers (Richard Kavanagh) birth entry in Dublin 1932, and i have to give my grandmothers name. The reason i want my fathers birth details is so that i can find out my grandparents names!!

I only have my fathers name and full date of birth and know that he was born in Dublin, but as i can't supply his mothers name then the registrar office will return my application :-[. 

What do i do now?
 
Is there any other way that i could get the extract that i want?? I can't get to Ireland either.

I want to make a start on my Kavanagh family tree and before i get going i have already hit a brick wall!! :'(

Yours desperately

Katarina
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: KathyM on Tuesday 16 August 05 10:12 BST (UK)
I don't think it's mandatory - if you just put a ? or 'not known' - you should get it - especially if you know the exact d.o.b.
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: Pat Reid on Wednesday 17 August 05 07:21 BST (UK)
Katarina:

I have a relative with exact same problem. He can't get his mother's birth cert for same reason. I can't believe that Dublin is so rigid!
Hope someone has some ideas for you.

Pat
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: KathyM on Wednesday 17 August 05 08:24 BST (UK)


   Have you got his father's name from his marriage certificate ?

   I think these questions are asked to ensure they have the right certificate - and also (on modern certs.) to avoid fraud.

If I were you I would telephone them & order over the phone.....I ordered a marriage cert. and although it was very slow....they seemed very nice to deal with & even rang me with a query.

I am sure the cost of the call would be worth it !
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: ladybird on Wednesday 17 August 05 09:49 BST (UK)
Do you have any idea how long a death cert should take to arrive please?

I ordered one from Dublin a month ago and even given that it has to be posted to NZ it seems a long time.

They don't seem to have debited my bankcard yet either???
Sylvia
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: KathyM on Wednesday 17 August 05 10:08 BST (UK)
The one I ordered took a long time !

I ordered it just before Christmas (and wondered if that explained the delay), but didn't receive it until the beginning of February
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: ladybird on Wednesday 17 August 05 10:14 BST (UK)
Oh good grief!!  :o
I won't hold my breath then
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Wednesday 17 August 05 10:43 BST (UK)
Kathy & Pat,

My father didn't marry my mother so I can't produce a marriage certificate but  he died here in England and I have a copy of his death certificate so would that suffice I wonder??
Obviously I have my own full birth certificate which shows that he is my father, I can actually show that I am related.
I think I will have to give them a ring on the phone and have a chat to see if this would help.

I, like many others, don't have any information about my Kavanagh family, apart from what I remember from childhood. I have never had any contact with my dads family and never met them before I went into a childrens home when I was 8 years old.


Does anyone know if the LDS have Dublin births for this period on microfiche at all???

Thanks for your help  :)

Katarina





Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: JustinL on Wednesday 17 August 05 12:52 BST (UK)
Katarina,

Don't worry. Look in the section on Research at groireland and you will see how the births are recorded in the register. With your father's full name, date and place of birth, there should be no difficulty in finding the correct registration and the certificate.

Uusally, researchers know the parents of the individual and are hoping to establish the date of birth.

There is also a tip about applying to the local Superintendant's Register Office for a quicker response.

To obtain a birth certificate from South Africa, you have to know the exact date of birth...

Good luck,

Justin

Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Wednesday 17 August 05 23:38 BST (UK)
Justin,

Thanks for the link to groireland. I have looked at the site before and used the "Apply for a certificate" option, but when i read the instructions it said that the mothers name must be included or the application would be returned.  I will have to call them and see if i can get away with not putting the mothers name on the application because I just don't have a clue as to what it is.

One day I'm gonna pay a personal visit to the registrar office and get a copy of my dad's birth extract but until then I'm stuck.

Thanks for your help

Katarina
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: Pat Reid on Thursday 18 August 05 05:06 BST (UK)
Here is link to film numbers at LDS. 
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=452818&disp=Quarterly%2Breturns%2Bof%2Bbirths%2Bin%2BIreland2

Pat
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: KathyM on Thursday 18 August 05 07:20 BST (UK)
I can't seem to get this link to work Pat !
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Thursday 18 August 05 09:02 BST (UK)
pat,

Same here, I can't get the link to work either.  Can you find it again? I would be grateful if you could.

Thanks


Katarina
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: Pat Reid on Thursday 18 August 05 20:07 BST (UK)
Try this.

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*,0,0&titleno=452818&disp=Quarterly%20returns%20of%20births%20in%20Ireland2

Pat
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: KathyM on Friday 19 August 05 09:09 BST (UK)
still no luck !!!!
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: Pat Reid on Friday 19 August 05 14:16 BST (UK)
OK. Here we go again. :)
Use this page and select the item you want, in this case Quarterly returns of births in Ireland.
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=topicdetails&subject=420572&subject_disp=Ireland+%2D+Civil+registration&columns=*,0,0

If this doesn't work, just go to Family History Library Catalog and go from there. Or you might just want to copy and paste the link address.

Pat
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: mikehicks on Friday 19 August 05 16:03 BST (UK)
Hi,

Some register offices ask for this information and it's very annoying. I think it's to cut down on their workload. But if you give them all you have and tell them it's for family history they should be able to help.

Hope you find what you want.

Mike
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Saturday 20 August 05 13:35 BST (UK)
Pat,

I got the link!  Thanks, just what i was looking for.


Kathy,   Hi-light the entire link, not just the red part, then paste to browser.



Katarina :)
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Saturday 20 August 05 13:38 BST (UK)
Mike,

Thanks for the advise  :)  I'm going to phone Roscommon and speak to them about it and see if they can help.


Katarina
Title: **COMPLETED** Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Thursday 24 October 13 12:40 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I have managed to get a copy of my father's birth certificate!

Many thanks to all the very kind people on this site who took time out to advise and help and a very big thank you to the lovely man who actually made a phone call to the registrar and got the particulars and reference details for me...you are outstanding!!

I can say that this topic is now closed and thank you so very much  ;D

Kat

Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Sunday 27 October 13 20:00 GMT (UK)
Was his mother's name Norton?
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Sunday 27 October 13 21:43 GMT (UK)
yes it was Madpat.

His parents are Winifred Norton and Patrick Kavanagh. I've now got the headache of trying to find their marriage.
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Monday 28 October 13 14:14 GMT (UK)
Do you have any details about their address - whether the parents were deceased? Sometimes the word deceased is written next to the parents' names. I have been looking for a Winifred but my guess is that she may have had another first name that she did not use on later documents.
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: eadaoin on Monday 28 October 13 17:37 GMT (UK)
I have been looking for a Winifred but my guess is that she may have had another first name that she did not use on later documents.

you could try Freda, or possibly Una (the Irish version, I think)

eadaoin
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Tuesday 29 October 13 10:08 GMT (UK)
Okay thanks I'll try that. Hopefully something will turn up.
My grandmother's sister was always known as Janey but on her birth and marriage cert she was Mary so I know this problem well. It took me ages to find her.
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Friday 01 November 13 16:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Madpat,

I only have dad's birth certificate details to use in my search so not alot to go on. I'm afraid i have absolutely no family to ask for any information either and dad passed away a number of years ago.

Anyway, the birth cert states:

Richard Kavanagh, 15th May 1932 Rotunda, Dublin North City No.2 
father: Patrick Kavanagh, Labourer, 11c Corporation Buildings,
Mother: Winifred Kavanagh formerly Norton

I'm positive my dad had a sister but again im stuck on that one as i was never told her name but i've looked at the IGI and found Margaret Kavanagh born 1934 to the same parents but in Thurles Tipperary.

I really am looking a few needles in a hatstack lol.

Thanks for your help Eadaoin and Madpat, very kind of both of you

Katarina

Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Friday 01 November 13 17:02 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

It looks like the mother was also Margaret and maybe Winifred was her second name or the name used by the family.
On the 1939 electoral roll for Dublin at 11C Corporation Buildings there is the family Patrick Kavanagh with wife Margaret (unless she is a remarriage) and Margaret Junior. Margaret must have been 21 to be on the voting list so that means she was born in about 1918. Richard would have been a baby. The couple may have had a good few children that died. I will now try and find out more. :D
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Friday 01 November 13 17:57 GMT (UK)
Hey Madpat you are an absolute diamond!! :)

I'm quite excited that you have found dad's family! Dad would have been 7 years old in May 1939 but could show up as 6 years old depending on what month the census was taken.
Any information would be great and i really appreciate your help  :)

Oh, i don't know if this will be of any help at all but i know the family were Roman Catholic.

Katarina
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Friday 01 November 13 19:40 GMT (UK)
This is only an electoral roll Katarina so just the people over 21 will appear on the form. It is very frustrating looking for a marriage between a Kavanagh and a Nolan as these names are really common especially in Wicklow and Carlow. Quite a few births will come up for a Kavanagh and Nolan so it is very hard to know which ones correspond.

On the form Margaret Kavanagh appears as Margaret Kavanagh Junior so she must be Pat and Winnie's child. This would mean the marriage could have taken place as early as 1915 and your dad was a late baby.  Until we can find the right marriage it will be hard to know which Patrick Kavanagh to look for on the census!
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Saturday 02 November 13 00:19 GMT (UK)
Hello Madpat,

I do understand and thanks once again. There are probably quite a few Patrick Kavanagh's on the electoral roll as it's a common name. Not being rude or picky at all but its Winifred (possibly Margaret) Norton not Nolan.

once again thanks

Katarina
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: madpat on Saturday 02 November 13 10:11 GMT (UK)
 ;D oh sorry hahaha! I don't know how Norton got to Nolan in my head! I'll try looking for her again! hahaha ;)
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: katarina on Monday 03 March 14 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Madpat,

I wonder if you have had time or chance to find anything further at all about Patrick Kavanagh & Winifred (possibly Margaret) Norton?

Thanks
Kat  :)
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 03 March 14 18:41 GMT (UK)
Hi There

Norton is obviously a much rarer surname in Ireland than Kavanagh so is a better starting point.

Working on the presumption, for now, that Winifred was her Christian name, on the 1911 Irish Census there was only one person in all of Ireland by that name that I can see !

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_West/Harold_s_Cross_Road/63963/

Tara
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 03 March 14 18:48 GMT (UK)
The family again in 1901 where her name is down as Minnie - I thought it should read Winnie (version of Winifred) but when you look at the actual record it defo says Minnie, all female Norton marriages need to be look at for a cross reference to a Patrick Kavanagh I reckon.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines/Harolds_Cross_Road__Part_/1296317/

Tara
Title: Re: I can't get my fathers birth certicate!! Help please
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 03 March 14 19:23 GMT (UK)
This appears to be Winifred Norton's birth

Winifred Norton
Apr-May-Jun 1898
Reg Balrothery Co. Dublin
Volume 2
Page 357

In the same district in 1921 there is a Winifred Norton getting married - the two men on the same page are James Neil  and Joseph Murray !

It's possible that Winifred was married prior to Patrick Kavanagh, which would mean looking for a Winifred NEIL or Winifred MURRAY marrying a Patrick Kavanagh.

With the birth cert for Richard - under his mother's details did it say 'Winifred Kavanagh Formerly Norton' or was there another version of this written.

I'm just wondering re the 1939 Census - is it possible that the Margaret Senior and Junior are in fact Patrick's mother and sister - HUM

still a lot of variables to work out !

Tara