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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: De880 on Saturday 25 May 19 13:12 BST (UK)
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Hello can anyone help with a look up of a birth entry.
For Arthur Hurley born 1882
In Deptford he married on 3 dec 1906
In woolwich to Minnie Hadaway.
Thankyou
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Not one registered in Deptford but all London area
HURLEY, ARTHUR GILBERT
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in STEPNEY Volume 01C Page 471
HURLEY, ARTHUR VINE
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1051
HURLEY, ARTHUR FRANK MILLS
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 578
HURLEY, ARTHUR WILLIAM LUCAS
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 517
Not sure which St Thomas
HURLEY, ARTHUR JOHN BOULKER
GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in SAINT THOMAS Volume 05B Page 61
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Welcome to Rootschat.
I cant find a Bapt in Deptford for him and as there are several Birth Reg's c 1881-1884 for a Arthur Hurley the Marriage Cert to Minnie is the only way to find his Fathers name/occp.
I see he died 1917 in WW1 and his effects record Minnie as his Wife.
I see Minnie remarried 1919 to Joseph Archer.
Trish :)
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Thankyou I have ordered the marriage certificate so hopefully once I have a father name it may help
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others may disagree but I would take him to be the Arthur Hurley on the 1891 census at Copenhagen Place, Limehouse with siblings and parents Benjamin Hurley and Jane (nee Gilbert).
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others may disagree but I would take him to be the Arthur Hurley on the 1891 census at Copenhagen Place, Limehouse with siblings and parents Benjamin Hurley and Jane (nee Gilbert).
He is still at home with his mother in 1911
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Hi he was already married by 1911 cencus
He married Minnie Hadaway in1906 in woolwich and has two children George William and rose violet
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Hi the Arthur birth in Greenwich is the most obvious birth if in Deptford, I searched for a Hurley/Vine marriage, and located an Arthur HURLY who married an Emily Vine March qtr 1878 Greenwich.
But in 1881 census we have:
William Hurley 30
Emily 22
George 4
Sarah Vine 45 Mother in Law
George is mmn Vine
Census ref RG11/713/21/6
Keyboard86
EDIT Either their was another Arthur who married an Emily Vine, I think together in 1871 census, as their is a birth registration of an Arthur Hurley March qtr 1873 Romford mmn Vine who appears to be baptised 19th March 1873 Greenwich, Christchurch Father Arthur Mother Emily?
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Let us know the info from the M/C :)
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:) I am not suggesting that the Arthur/William Hurley who married Emily Vine were the parents of both George 1877 and Arthur c 1882/1884, but both Arthur & George are not apparent 1891/1901 but reappear in Woolwich both married in the case of George to a Caroline Raymond.
Just find it odd?
Keyboard86
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There’s another Hurley/Vine son, Walter b Sep qtr 1881 Greenwich, who is hard to find in 1891 too (but later marries, naming his father as Arthur Hurley, waterman). From school and poor law records it looks as though the family may have fallen on hard times following the death of the father - possibly Arthur Hurley aged 41, Dec qtr 1889 Greenwich.
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Hi the Arthur birth in Greenwich is the most obvious birth if in Deptford,
I searched for a Hurley/Vine marriage, and located an Arthur HURLY who married an Emily Vine March qtr 1878 Greenwich.
Can’t find a baptism
ARTHUR HURLEY
Birth year 1884
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Vine
District Greenwich
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 1051
Is this another son
JOSEPH JOHN HURLEY
Birth year 1883
Birth quarter 3
Mother's maiden name Vine
District Greenwich
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 981
Joseph John Hurley
Baptism Date: 15 Aug 1883
Baptism Place: Deptford St John, Lewisham, England
Father: Arthur Hurley occ labourer
Mother: Emily
abode 15 Mill Lane
John Joseph Hurley
Baptism Date: 6 Mar 1887
Baptism Place: Deptford Christ Church, Lewisham, England
Father: Arthur Hurley labourer
Mother: Emily abode 28 Stanhope Street
There’s this record no parent/s named
Arthur Hurley Age: 7
Birth Date: Nov 1884
Admission Date: 1891
School: Union Street School
London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911
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Both Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891.
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Re 1883 baptism of Joseph John Hurley this appears to be Arthur & Emily on 1871c Mill Lane
Arthur Hurley 21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily Hurley 20
Piece: 749
Folio: 78
Page Number: 19
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Re 1883 baptism of Joseph John Hurley this appears to be Arthur & Emily on 1871c Mill Lane
Arthur Hurley 21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily Hurley 20
Piece: 749
Folio: 78
Page Number: 19
That is the one I located, but makes the age of Emily way out in 1881, and problem with her earlier with mother Sarah Vine from 1881 census?
Keyboard86
PS and the birth 1873 of another Arthur Hurley mmn Vine?
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Thanks for all the info
I’ve found my grandads marriage certificate at that time he was living at 37 rope yard rails woolwich
Have been looking at census /polling records for this address to see who was living there with him.
Looked back at same address
I came across this could it be linked
Arthur Hurley
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Arthur Hurley
Year: 1914
County or Borough: Newham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Woolwich
Street address: 37 Ropeyard rails
There’s also Arthur Hurley
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Arthur Hurley
Year: 1914
County or Borough: Newham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Woolwich
Street address: 37 Ropeyard rails
AND ON 1901 cencsus at 45 rope yard rails woolwich lives George and Arthur Early (maybe spelt wrong) (son in law) BUT WITH EMILY AND HENRY SMITH
What are your thoughts
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That 1901 entry for the Smiths with the “Early” boys is a great find. That’s Emily Vine/Hurley with a new husband and her blended family.
Children of the new relationship include:
Violet Smith, mmn Vine, Jun qtr 1893 Woolwich
Bella Smith, mmn Vine, Sep qtr 1896 Woolwich
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I’ve found my grandads marriage certificate at that time he was living at 37 rope yard rails woolwich
ON 1901 cencsus at 45 rope yard rails woolwich lives
George and Arthur Early (maybe spelt wrong) (son in law)
BUT WITH EMILY AND HENRY SMITH
What are your thoughts
That 1901 entry for the Smiths with the “Early” boys is a great find. That’s Emily Vine/Hurley with a new “husband” and her blended family.
Children of the new relationship include:
Violet Smith, mmn Vine, Jun qtr 1893 Woolwich
Bella Smith, mmn Vine, Sep qtr 1896 Woolwich
Well done - looking at the original 1901 census entry for Arthur his surname has been crossed out
and EARLY written above - it looks to me as if the first surname written could be HURLEY
reference RG13 Piece 565 Folio 33 Page 57
there's this marriage
Sep 1890 Woolwich 1d 1840
Butler Alexander
EARLY Emily
Russell Matilda Maud
Russell Maud Matilda
SMITH Henry
7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH 28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse 22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)
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Both Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891.
For info.
3 Union Buildings Union Street Woolwich
Joseph Lacey Head Married 1832 General Labourer Ireland
Mary A Lacey Wife Married 1832 Ireland
Henry SMITH Boarder Married 1861 General Labourer London, Middlesex,
Emily ditto Boarder Married 1856 London, Middlesex,
George ditto Boarder Single 1877 London, Middlesex
Walter ditto Boarder 1881 London, Middlesex
Arthur ditto Boarder 1885 London, Middlesex
RG12 Piece 532 Folio 59 Page 43
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Here are two baptism with surname EARLY looks as if their births are registered with surname HURLEY
George EARLY bn 25th Apr 1877
Bpt. 10 Jun 1877 Deptford St Paul, Lewisham
Father: Arthur Early occ labourer. Mother: Emily
abode Mill Lane
HURLEY, GEORGE mmn VINE
1877 J Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 857
Daniel John EARLY bn 21st Aug 1875
Bpt. 27 Oct 1875 Deptford St John, Lewisham
Father: Arthur Early occ deal-porter Mother: Emily
Abode 8 Mill Lane
HURLEY, DANIEL JOHN mmm VINE
1875 D Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 824
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7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH 28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse 22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)
It looks as if the witnesses to Emily's marriage might well be her sister Mary & brother Daniel
33 Union Buildings
John Barritt/Burritt? 23 Lambeth general
Mary Barritt 27 Greenwich
William VINE brother in law 20 Greenwich occ Chimney Sweep
1891 census RG10; Piece: 783; Folio: 81; Page: 37
Possibly Emily VINE's parents
William VINE 27 Woolwich occ Sweep
Sarah 25 Greenwich
Mary Ann 7 Greenwich
David Daniel 4
1851 census HO107; Piece: 1586; Folio: 90; Page: 14
Daniel John VINE baptism 5 Sept 1847 father William, occ Chimney Sweep
mother Sarah
Daniel VINE married 5 March 1867 father William occ Chimney Sweep
one witness Mary Burrett both made their mark (x)
Emily VINE born 2nd March bpt 31 March 1854 St Alphege Greenwich
Father William occ Sweep mother Sarah
Emily VINE Discharge Age: 14 Birth Date: abt 1854
Discharge Date: 8 Jul 1868 Discharge Place: Greenwich, London
notes taken out by mother
18 Mar 1878 St John, Deptford, Lewisham
Emily VINE father William occ Chimney Sweep
Arthur HURLY occ labourer father John occ Labourer
both f/a & single, both made their mark (x), both residence 8 Mill Lane
banns were read 3rd, 10th & 17th March 1878, both of this Parish
Bp 8 Oct 1879 St John Deptford
Mary Ellen HURLY born 27 Sept
Father Arthur, labourer mother Emily
Abode 8 Mill Lane
mentioned previously by keyboard
1871 census Mill Lane Woods Lodging House, St Paul, Greenwich
Arthur HURLEY 21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily 20
Piece: 749 Folio: 78 Page 19
Were Arthur & Emily living together as man & wife before 1878 marriage ???
This appears to be Arthur HURLEY with his parents on 1861 census
51, Old Kent Road Great Stockwell Street, Camberwell
John Hurley Head Married 1814 Woolwich, Kent occ Labourer
Mary Hurley Wife 1821 Hertfordshire
Mary Hurley Daughter 1845 Southwark, Surrey Gen Serv
Timothy Hurley Son 1847 Southwark, Surrey Gen Serv
Arthur Hurley Son 1850 Scholar Camberwell, Surrey
Edward Hurley Son 1853 Scholar Camberwell, Surrey
Henry Hurley Son 1855 Scholar Camberwell, Surrey
George Hurley Son 1859 Camberwell, Surrey
RG09 Piece 385 Folio 26 Page 12
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:) Great work Ladyhawk, can anyone locate the baptism/death of the Arthur Hurley 1873 mmn Vine?
Keyboard86
EDIT So it looks like Arthur and Emily were living together prior to marriage 1878:-
Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich Father Arthur Mother Emily
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EDIT So it looks like Arthur and Emily were living together prior to marriage 1878:-
Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich Father Arthur Mother Emily
Well found I had tried but failed to find it transcribed as HUTLEY on Anc*y
2 Union Place Old Woolwich Road
Arthur occ Lighterman
I’ve been trying to find Emily Vine bn c1854 on 1861 census at the moment this is all I’ve come up with as a possibility but wrong surname ???
Richard Busey 56
Sarah Busey 34
Emily Busey 7
Sarah Shaw 62
RG 9; Piece: 401; Folio: 66; Page: 6
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:) 1861 a problem, but is this mother Sarah Vine in 1871 census:-
George Mcbean 48 b Greenwich
Sarah Vine 45 Widow/Sister b Greenwich
Sarah Shaw 74 Widow/Mother b Portsmouth
Residing Union Place, Greenwich
Census ref RG10/757/6/6
Keyboard86
:) With Sarah Shaw on both 1861/71 looks suspicious with Busey surname, on FindMyPast transcribed as Bary, Sarah Shaw 62 b Portsmouth Mother in Law in 1861 census.
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Could this be the correct marriage for Emily’s parents ???
31st Dec 1862 All Saints Kent
William VINE 40 occ Sweep John occ sweep
Sarah SHORE 36 father James occ Sailor
Both single both made their mark (x)
Edit - wondering if the above was a second marriage for William even though it says bachelor :-\
there’s this 1861 census entry with a son Daniel
High Street, Erith, Dartford, Kent
Wm Vine Head Widower 1815 Sweep Beckley, Kent
Daniel Vine Son - 1846 Sweep Beckley, Kent
William Vine Son - 1849 Sweep Beckley, Kent
Elizabeth Stone Servant. 1821 Servant Beckley, Kent
RG09 Piece 466 Folio 48 Page 26
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Hi from my notes, Surely Beckley is in Sussex, but Bexley is near Dartford?
1851/61 for Sarah Shaw b Portsmouth?
Keyboard86
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Hi from my notes, Surely Beckley is in Sussex, but Bexley is near Dartford?
1851/61 for Sarah Shaw b Portsmouth?
It should be Bexley Kent - had not checked the original ::)
Will amend my post - edit to late to amend now
from Genuki
"BEXLEY, a parish and village, chiefly in the hundred of Ruxley, partly in that of Lessness, lathe of Sutton-at-Hone, in the county of Kent, 3 miles from Dartford, 8 from Greenwich, and 13 from London
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Well the marriage certificate is here for Arthur Hurley and Minnie
Is there a way to post pictures on here ? If not will write out info
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Write it out is fine
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3 dec 1906 Arthur Hurley 23 yrs batcholor prof carman address 45 rope yard rails woolwich father is a Arthur Hurley (deceased) prof Waterman
Minnie Hadaway 22 yrs spinster factory hand add 1 meeting house lane high street woolwich father Alfred hadaway prof Carman
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3 dec 1906 Arthur Hurley 23 yrs batcholor prof carman
address 45 rope yard rails woolwich
father is a Arthur Hurley (deceased) prof Waterman
Minnie Hadaway 22 yrs spinster factory hand add 1 meeting house lane high street woolwich
father Alfred hadaway prof Carman
Thank you for letting us know - who witnessed their marriage ?
Marriage address in 1906 matches that of London Electoral Register
1923 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
1933 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway at 45 Ropeyard Rails Woolwich
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Not the same address but this appears to be Minnie & Rose Hurley ( Rose bpt. shows same dob 29 Nov 1908)
Minnie HURLEY age 25
Birth date Nov 1884
Rose Hurley Age: 1
Birth Date: 29 Nov 1908
Admission Date: 3 Dec 1909
Admission Place: Greenwich, Woolwich, London, England
From Infirmary Minnie Hurley Age: 25
Removed from Lewisham Rose age 1
Discharge Date: 3 Dec 1909
Discharge Place: Greenwich, Greenwich, London, England
mmm.....husbands name shown as Harry ???
Minnie HURLEY Age: 25
Married 112 High Street Husband HARRY , carman ANK
Rose Hurley age 1 child of above
Record Type: Admission
Date: 2 Dec 1909
Admission Place: Greenwich, Greenwich, London, England
London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
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:) 1861 a problem, but is this mother Sarah Vine in 1871 census:-
George Mcbean 48 b Greenwich
Sarah Vine 45 Widow/Sister b Greenwich
Sarah Shaw 74 Widow/Mother b Portsmouth
Residing Union Place, Greenwich
Census ref RG10/757/6/6
Keyboard86
With Sarah Shaw on both 1861/71 looks suspicious with Busey surname, on FindMyPast transcribed as Bary, Sarah Shaw 62 b Portsmouth Mother in Law in 1861 census.
Witnesses to marriage for Arthur Hurley would possibly help.
Still trying to work out if the above is correct, how it came about?!
Keyboard86
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Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich
Father Arthur Mother Emily
Well found I had tried but failed to find it transcribed as HUTLEY on Anc*y
2 Union Place Old Woolwich Road
Arthur HURLEY occ Lighterman
Do we know if Arthur Hurley born 1873 has died?
Arthur HURLEY 1906 m/c father Arthur occupation given as Waterman
from parish register http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html#ancestors
Waterman or Lighterman Ancestor then you are very fortunate indeed. The surviving records of the Company of Watermen & Lightermen are rich and varied, and date back to the late 17th Century.
The Bindings books (recording when and to whom an apprentice was 'bound') and the Affidavit birth proof records (noting the date and place of birth of an apprentice) provide a straightforward source of genealogical information................available in a PDF searchable format on CD-ROM
a Waterman was someone licensed to navigate and pilot passenger vessels on the River Thames
a Lighterman, worked on barges, carrying goods or wares up and down the river and from cargo ships to shore
De880 can you give us the witnesses named on m/c please as they might be helpful
ADDED - I have searched for Arthur Hurley on these records on F M P but nothing
Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
London, Watermen, Birth Register Of Contracted Men, 1865-1921
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Hi the witness names look like
W Croucher and W laxley
I have posted a picture of certificate on ansetrey.co.uk under Arthur and Minnie
You might read it differently:)
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What other certificates would help ?
Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?
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What other certificates would help ?
Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?
:) This family have been causing me problems for weeks, perhaps the marriage certificate of Arthur HURLY to Emily Vine 1878 Greenwich 1d 847 or the birth certificate of the earlier Arthur Hurley 1873 Romford mmn Vine possibly baptised 19th March 1873 Greenwich Chirstchurch Father Arthur Mother Emily
Keyboard86
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What other certificates would help ?
Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?
You've confirmed from Arthur Hurley marriage certificate that he was 23 age (born c1883)
and his father was Arthur Hurley occupation Waterman (deceased)
When did his father die? - a suggested death posted previously
Dec 1889 Greenwich 1d 533 Arthur Hurley age 41
Also confirmed from address 45 Rope yard rails woolwich a connection with Hurley/Smith/Hadaway
and 1901 census showing Emily & Henry Smith with Arthur 1884 & George 1876 (Early) same address
London Electoral Register
1923 Emily Smith, Henry Smith & William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
1933 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway at 45 Ropeyard Rails Woolwich
Next step could be to confirm who Arthur's parents were - Are they Arthur & Emily Vine?
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:) This family have been causing me problems for weeks, perhaps the marriage certificate of Arthur HURLY to Emily Vine 1878 Greenwich 1d 847
The marriage detail available on line posted (reply 20)
18 Mar 1878 St John, Deptford, Lewisham
Emily VINE father William occ Chimney Sweep
Arthur HURLY occ labourer father John occ Labourer
both f/a & single, both made their mark (x), both residence 8 Mill Lane
added the 2nd marriage for Emily Hurley (reply 17)
7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH 28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse, 22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)
the birth certificate of the earlier Arthur Hurley 1873 Romford mmn Vine
I agree
I was wondering if this was his death entry
Dec 1873 Poplar 1c 562
Arthur Hurley age 1
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:) As usual forgot marriage details had already been located!
Keyboard86
But 1881 has William Hurley as head with Emily, and Sarah Vine Mother in Law?
Census ref RG11/713/21/6
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But 1881 has William Hurley as head with Emily, and Sarah Vine Mother in Law?
Yes, it's all very confusing ??? Can't find a marriage for a William Hurley to Emily Vine
Posted previously this seems to be Emily's baptism but I haven't found a birth registration to confirm her mother's maiden name ???
Emily Vine born 2nd Mar
Baptism 31 Mar 1854 Greenwich St Alphege, Greenwich
Father: William Vine occ Sweep
Mother: Sarah Vine
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Ladyhawk, are their no school/workhouse admissions to be found for the Arthur Hurley b 1873?
Keyboard86
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Ladyhawk, are their no school/workhouse admissions to be found for the Arthur Hurley b 1873?
Not that I could find only Arthur bn c1884 (reply 11)
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Have just received the birth certificate
Which hopefully give my clues to my search
Birth registry Greenwich st Paul’s Deptford
Where and when born 16 th nov 1884 address 8 Mill lane
Name Arthur.
Fathers name Arthur Hurley Occupation Labourer
mother Emily Hurley formerly Vine address 8 Mill lane
Registered 16 Dec 84
Do you think this is the correct Arthur with all the other evidence you have helped me find
Thankyou
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Have just received the birth certificate
Which hopefully give my clues to my search
Birth registry Greenwich st Paul’s Deptford
Where and when born 16 th nov 1884 address 8 Mill lane
Name Arthur.
Fathers name Arthur Hurley Occupation Labourer
mother Emily Hurley formerly Vine address 8 Mill lane
Registered 16 Dec 84
Do you think this is the correct Arthur with all the other evidence you have helped me find
Thankyou
The only slight doubt I had was that on your Arthur's 1906 m/c to Minnie his father Arthur's occupation was given as a Waterman
a Waterman was someone licensed to navigate and pilot passenger vessels on the River Thames
I looked and could not find a father & son named Arthur together on census with occupation Waterman.
The 1873 baptism of Arthur Hurley parents Arthur & Emily his father occ Lighterman
a Lighterman, worked on barges, carrying goods or wares up and down the river and from cargo ships to shore
Arthur Hurley Snr. occ a labourer on census which matches the b/c of Arthur 1884.
The address 45 Ropeyard Rails on Arthur’s 1906 m/c to Minnie Hadway seems to confirm a connection with the Smith/Hurley/Hadaway’s who were living at that address in *1923 & *1933.
*Emily Smith, Henry Smith, William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
*Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway
Not checked to see if William Hadaway was Minnie's brother
1891 census shows Emily has remarried she married Henry on 7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse 22 Union Buildings father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)
Arthur has brothers named George, Walter & William
3 Union Buildings Union Street Woolwich
Joseph Lacey Head Married 1832 General Labourer Ireland
Mary A Lacey Wife Married 1832 Ireland
Henry SMITH Boarder Married 1861 General Labourer London, Middlesex,
Emily ditto Boarder Married 1856 London, Middlesex,
George ditto Boarder Single 1877 London, Middlesex
Walter ditto Boarder 1881 London, Middlesex
Arthur ditto Boarder 1885 London, Middlesex
bpt of his brother George 10 June 1877 address Mill Lane and father Arthur occ Labourer and George's 1877 birth entry shows mn VINE
Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891