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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: De880 on Saturday 25 May 19 13:12 BST (UK)

Title: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Saturday 25 May 19 13:12 BST (UK)
Hello can anyone help with a look up of a birth entry.
For Arthur Hurley born 1882
In Deptford he married on 3 dec 1906
In woolwich to Minnie Hadaway.
Thankyou

Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: medpat on Saturday 25 May 19 13:48 BST (UK)
Code: [Select]
Not one registered in Deptford but all London area


HURLEY, ARTHUR    GILBERT 
GRO Reference: 1883  J Quarter in STEPNEY  Volume 01C  Page 471

HURLEY, ARTHUR    VINE 
GRO Reference: 1884  D Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 1051

HURLEY, ARTHUR  FRANK  MILLS 
GRO Reference: 1883  M Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN  Volume 01C  Page 578

HURLEY, ARTHUR  WILLIAM  LUCAS 
GRO Reference: 1881  J Quarter in HACKNEY  Volume 01B  Page 517

Not sure which St Thomas

HURLEY, ARTHUR  JOHN  BOULKER 
GRO Reference: 1882  S Quarter in SAINT THOMAS  Volume 05B  Page 61

 
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 25 May 19 14:18 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat.

I cant find a Bapt in Deptford for him and as there are several Birth Reg's c 1881-1884 for a Arthur Hurley the Marriage Cert to Minnie is the only way to find his Fathers name/occp.

I see he died 1917 in WW1 and his effects record Minnie as his Wife.
I see Minnie remarried 1919 to Joseph Archer.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Saturday 25 May 19 16:18 BST (UK)
Thankyou I have ordered the marriage certificate so hopefully once I have a father name it may help
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: peterwimsey on Saturday 25 May 19 16:32 BST (UK)
others may disagree but I would take him to be the Arthur Hurley on the 1891 census at Copenhagen Place, Limehouse with siblings and parents Benjamin Hurley and Jane (nee Gilbert).
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 25 May 19 16:35 BST (UK)
others may disagree but I would take him to be the Arthur Hurley on the 1891 census at Copenhagen Place, Limehouse with siblings and parents Benjamin Hurley and Jane (nee Gilbert).

He is still at home with his mother in 1911
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Saturday 25 May 19 16:44 BST (UK)
Hi he was already married by 1911 cencus
He married Minnie Hadaway in1906 in woolwich and has two children George William and rose violet
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 25 May 19 17:17 BST (UK)
Hi the Arthur birth in Greenwich is the most obvious birth if in Deptford, I searched for a Hurley/Vine marriage, and located an Arthur HURLY who married an Emily Vine March qtr 1878 Greenwich.
But in 1881 census we have:

William Hurley 30
Emily 22
George 4
Sarah Vine 45 Mother in Law
George is mmn Vine
Census ref RG11/713/21/6
Keyboard86

EDIT Either their was another Arthur who married an Emily Vine, I think together in 1871 census, as their is a birth registration of an Arthur Hurley March qtr 1873 Romford mmn Vine who appears to be baptised 19th March 1873 Greenwich, Christchurch  Father Arthur Mother Emily?
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 26 May 19 13:31 BST (UK)
Let us know the info from the M/C :)
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 26 May 19 21:30 BST (UK)
 :) I am not suggesting that the Arthur/William Hurley who married Emily Vine were the parents of both George 1877 and Arthur c 1882/1884, but both Arthur & George are not apparent 1891/1901 but reappear in Woolwich both married in the case of George to a Caroline Raymond.
Just find it odd?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: avm228 on Sunday 26 May 19 23:44 BST (UK)
There’s another Hurley/Vine son, Walter b Sep qtr 1881 Greenwich, who is hard to find in 1891 too (but later marries, naming his father as Arthur Hurley, waterman).  From school and poor law records it looks as though the family may have fallen on hard times following the death of the father - possibly Arthur Hurley aged 41, Dec qtr 1889 Greenwich.
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 00:01 BST (UK)
Hi the Arthur birth in Greenwich is the most obvious birth if in Deptford,

 I searched for a Hurley/Vine marriage, and located an Arthur HURLY who married an Emily Vine March qtr 1878 Greenwich.


Can’t find a baptism

ARTHUR HURLEY
Birth year   1884
Birth quarter   4
Registration month   -
Mother's maiden name   Vine
District   Greenwich
County   London
Country   England
Volume   1D
Page   1051

Is this another son

JOSEPH JOHN HURLEY
Birth year   1883
Birth quarter   3
Mother's maiden name   Vine
District   Greenwich
County   London
Country   England
Volume   1D
Page   981

Joseph John Hurley
Baptism Date:   15 Aug 1883
Baptism Place:   Deptford St John, Lewisham, England
Father:   Arthur Hurley occ labourer
Mother:   Emily
abode 15 Mill Lane

John Joseph Hurley
Baptism Date:   6 Mar 1887
Baptism Place:   Deptford Christ Church, Lewisham, England
Father:   Arthur Hurley labourer
Mother:   Emily abode 28 Stanhope Street

There’s this record no parent/s named

Arthur Hurley Age:   7
Birth Date:   Nov 1884
Admission Date:   1891
School:   Union Street School
London, England, School Admissions and Discharges, 1840-1911





Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: avm228 on Monday 27 May 19 00:09 BST (UK)
 Both Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891.
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 00:23 BST (UK)
Re 1883 baptism of Joseph John Hurley this appears to be Arthur & Emily on 1871c Mill Lane

Arthur Hurley   21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily Hurley   20
Piece:   749
Folio:   78
Page Number:   19

Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 27 May 19 00:34 BST (UK)
Re 1883 baptism of Joseph John Hurley this appears to be Arthur & Emily on 1871c Mill Lane

Arthur Hurley   21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily Hurley   20
Piece:   749
Folio:   78
Page Number:   19

That is the one I located, but makes the age of Emily way out in 1881, and problem with her earlier with mother Sarah Vine from 1881 census?
Keyboard86

PS and the birth 1873 of another Arthur Hurley mmn Vine?
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Monday 27 May 19 08:35 BST (UK)
Thanks for all the info
I’ve found  my grandads marriage certificate at that time he was living at 37 rope yard rails woolwich
Have been looking at census /polling records for this address to see who was living there with him.
Looked back at same address
I came across this could it be linked
Arthur Hurley
 in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:   Arthur Hurley
Year:   1914
County or Borough:   Newham
Ward or Division/Constituency:   Woolwich
Street address:   37 Ropeyard rails

There’s also Arthur Hurley
 in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
View London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name:   Arthur Hurley
Year:   1914
County or Borough:   Newham
Ward or Division/Constituency:   Woolwich
Street address:   37 Ropeyard rails
AND ON 1901 cencsus at 45 rope yard rails woolwich lives George and Arthur Early (maybe spelt wrong) (son in law)  BUT WITH EMILY AND HENRY SMITH
What are your thoughts
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: avm228 on Monday 27 May 19 09:42 BST (UK)
That 1901 entry for the Smiths with the “Early” boys is a great find.  That’s Emily Vine/Hurley with a new husband and her blended family.

Children of the new relationship include:
 
Violet Smith, mmn Vine, Jun qtr 1893 Woolwich
Bella Smith, mmn Vine, Sep qtr 1896 Woolwich
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 12:27 BST (UK)

I’ve found  my grandads marriage certificate at that time he was living at 37 rope yard rails woolwich

ON 1901 cencsus at 45 rope yard rails woolwich lives
George and Arthur Early (maybe spelt wrong) (son in law) 

BUT WITH EMILY AND HENRY SMITH

What are your thoughts
That 1901 entry for the Smiths with the “Early” boys is a great find.  That’s Emily Vine/Hurley with a new “husband” and her blended family.

Children of the new relationship include:
 
Violet Smith, mmn Vine, Jun qtr 1893 Woolwich
Bella Smith, mmn Vine, Sep qtr 1896 Woolwich

Well done - looking at the original 1901 census entry for Arthur his surname has been crossed out
and EARLY written above - it looks to me as if the first surname written could be HURLEY

reference   RG13 Piece 565 Folio   33 Page   57

there's this marriage

Sep 1890   Woolwich    1d   1840
Butler    Alexander            
EARLY    Emily       
Russell    Matilda Maud       
Russell    Maud Matilda       
SMITH    Henry   

7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH  28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse  22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 12:58 BST (UK)
Both Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891.

For info.

3 Union Buildings Union Street Woolwich                        
Joseph   Lacey   Head   Married         1832   General Labourer   Ireland
Mary A   Lacey   Wife   Married         1832   Ireland
Henry   SMITH   Boarder   Married      1861   General Labourer   London, Middlesex,
Emily   ditto   Boarder   Married   1856   London, Middlesex,
George   ditto   Boarder   Single   1877    London, Middlesex
Walter   ditto   Boarder         1881   London, Middlesex
Arthur   ditto   Boarder         1885    London, Middlesex
RG12 Piece 532 Folio   59 Page   43
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 13:21 BST (UK)
Here are two baptism with surname EARLY looks as if their births are registered with surname HURLEY

George EARLY bn 25th Apr 1877   
Bpt. 10 Jun 1877 Deptford St Paul, Lewisham
Father:   Arthur Early occ labourer. Mother:   Emily
abode Mill Lane

HURLEY, GEORGE  mmn VINE
1877  J Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 857   

Daniel John EARLY bn 21st Aug 1875   
Bpt. 27 Oct 1875 Deptford St John, Lewisham
Father:   Arthur Early occ deal-porter  Mother:   Emily
Abode 8 Mill Lane

HURLEY, DANIEL  JOHN   mmm VINE
1875  D Quarter in GREENWICH  Volume 01D  Page 824   
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 14:27 BST (UK)
Quote from: Ladyhawk
7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH  28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse  22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)

It looks as if the witnesses to Emily's marriage might well be her sister Mary & brother Daniel

33 Union Buildings   
John Barritt/Burritt?   23 Lambeth general
Mary Barritt   27 Greenwich
William VINE brother in law   20 Greenwich occ Chimney Sweep
1891 census RG10; Piece: 783; Folio: 81; Page: 37

Possibly Emily VINE's parents

William VINE 27 Woolwich occ Sweep
Sarah 25 Greenwich
Mary Ann 7 Greenwich
David Daniel 4
1851 census HO107; Piece: 1586; Folio: 90; Page: 14

Daniel John VINE baptism 5 Sept 1847 father William, occ Chimney Sweep
mother Sarah

Daniel VINE married 5 March 1867 father William occ Chimney Sweep
one witness Mary Burrett both made their mark (x)

Emily VINE born 2nd March bpt 31 March 1854 St Alphege Greenwich
Father William occ Sweep mother Sarah

Emily VINE Discharge Age:   14  Birth Date:   abt 1854
Discharge Date:   8 Jul 1868 Discharge Place:   Greenwich, London
notes taken out by mother

18 Mar 1878 St John, Deptford, Lewisham
Emily VINE father William occ Chimney Sweep
Arthur HURLY occ labourer father John occ Labourer
both f/a & single, both made their mark (x), both residence 8 Mill Lane

banns were read 3rd, 10th & 17th March 1878, both of this Parish

Bp 8 Oct 1879 St John Deptford
Mary Ellen HURLY born 27 Sept
Father Arthur, labourer mother Emily
Abode 8 Mill Lane

mentioned previously by keyboard
1871 census Mill Lane Woods Lodging House, St Paul, Greenwich
Arthur HURLEY   21 Deptford occ Labourer
Emily                20
Piece:   749 Folio:   78 Page   19

Were Arthur & Emily living together as man & wife before 1878 marriage  ???

This appears to be Arthur HURLEY with his parents on 1861 census

51, Old Kent Road Great Stockwell Street, Camberwell
John Hurley   Head   Married   1814   Woolwich, Kent occ Labourer
Mary   Hurley   Wife      1821      Hertfordshire
Mary   Hurley   Daughter   1845   Southwark, Surrey Gen Serv
Timothy   Hurley   Son   1847   Southwark, Surrey Gen Serv
Arthur   Hurley   Son   1850   Scholar   Camberwell, Surrey
Edward   Hurley   Son   1853   Scholar   Camberwell, Surrey
Henry   Hurley   Son   1855   Scholar   Camberwell, Surrey
George   Hurley   Son   1859      Camberwell, Surrey
RG09 Piece 385 Folio   26 Page   12
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 27 May 19 15:49 BST (UK)
 :) Great work Ladyhawk, can anyone locate the baptism/death of the Arthur Hurley 1873 mmn Vine?
Keyboard86

EDIT So it looks like Arthur and Emily were living together prior to marriage 1878:-

Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich Father Arthur Mother Emily
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 16:46 BST (UK)


EDIT So it looks like Arthur and Emily were living together prior to marriage 1878:-

Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich Father Arthur Mother Emily

Well found I had tried but failed to find it transcribed as HUTLEY on Anc*y

2 Union Place Old Woolwich Road
Arthur occ Lighterman

I’ve been trying to find Emily Vine bn c1854 on 1861 census at the moment this is all I’ve come up with as a possibility but wrong surname  ???

Richard Busey   56
Sarah Busey   34
Emily Busey   7
Sarah Shaw   62
RG 9; Piece: 401; Folio: 66; Page: 6
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 27 May 19 18:50 BST (UK)
 :) 1861 a problem, but is this mother Sarah Vine in 1871 census:-

George Mcbean 48 b Greenwich
Sarah Vine 45 Widow/Sister b Greenwich
Sarah Shaw 74 Widow/Mother b Portsmouth
Residing Union Place, Greenwich
Census ref RG10/757/6/6
Keyboard86

 :) With Sarah Shaw on both 1861/71 looks suspicious with Busey  surname, on FindMyPast transcribed as Bary, Sarah Shaw 62 b Portsmouth Mother in Law in 1861 census.
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 27 May 19 19:20 BST (UK)
Could this be the correct marriage for Emily’s parents  ???

31st Dec 1862 All Saints Kent
William VINE 40  occ Sweep John occ sweep
Sarah SHORE 36  father James occ Sailor
Both single both made their mark (x)

Edit - wondering if the above was a second marriage  for William even though it says bachelor :-\
there’s this 1861 census entry with a son Daniel

High Street, Erith, Dartford, Kent
Wm Vine   Head   Widower       1815   Sweep Beckley, Kent
Daniel   Vine   Son   -         1846   Sweep Beckley, Kent
William   Vine   Son   -         1849   Sweep Beckley, Kent
Elizabeth   Stone   Servant.  1821   Servant   Beckley, Kent
RG09 Piece 466 Folio   48 Page   26


Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 29 May 19 14:20 BST (UK)
Hi from my notes, Surely Beckley is in Sussex, but Bexley is near Dartford?
1851/61 for Sarah Shaw b Portsmouth?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 29 May 19 14:29 BST (UK)

Hi from my notes, Surely Beckley is in Sussex, but Bexley is near Dartford?
1851/61 for Sarah Shaw b Portsmouth?


It should be Bexley Kent - had not checked the original  ::)

Will amend my post - edit to late to amend now

from Genuki
"BEXLEY, a parish and village, chiefly in the hundred of Ruxley, partly in that of Lessness, lathe of Sutton-at-Hone, in the county of Kent, 3 miles from Dartford, 8 from Greenwich, and 13 from London
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Saturday 01 June 19 18:15 BST (UK)
Well the marriage certificate is here for Arthur Hurley and Minnie
Is there a way to post pictures on here ? If not will write  out info
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 01 June 19 18:20 BST (UK)
Write it out is fine
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Saturday 01 June 19 19:31 BST (UK)
3 dec 1906 Arthur Hurley 23 yrs batcholor prof carman address 45 rope yard rails woolwich father is a Arthur Hurley (deceased) prof Waterman

Minnie Hadaway 22 yrs spinster  factory hand  add 1 meeting house lane high street woolwich father Alfred hadaway prof Carman
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 01 June 19 20:48 BST (UK)
3 dec 1906 Arthur Hurley 23 yrs batcholor prof carman
address 45 rope yard rails woolwich
father is a Arthur Hurley (deceased) prof Waterman

Minnie Hadaway 22 yrs spinster  factory hand  add 1 meeting house lane high street woolwich
father Alfred hadaway prof Carman

Thank you for letting us know - who witnessed their marriage ?

Marriage address in 1906 matches that of London Electoral Register

1923 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
1933 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway at 45 Ropeyard Rails Woolwich
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 01 June 19 21:21 BST (UK)
Not the same address but this appears to be Minnie & Rose Hurley ( Rose bpt. shows same dob 29 Nov 1908)

Minnie HURLEY age 25
Birth date Nov 1884
Rose Hurley Age:   1
Birth Date:   29 Nov 1908
Admission Date:   3 Dec 1909
Admission Place:   Greenwich, Woolwich, London, England

From Infirmary Minnie Hurley Age:   25
Removed from Lewisham Rose age 1
Discharge Date:   3 Dec 1909
Discharge Place:   Greenwich, Greenwich, London, England

mmm.....husbands name shown  as Harry  ???

Minnie HURLEY Age:   25
Married 112 High Street Husband HARRY , carman ANK
Rose Hurley age 1 child of above
Record Type:   Admission
Date:   2 Dec 1909
Admission Place:   Greenwich, Greenwich, London, England

London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 02 June 19 14:15 BST (UK)
:) 1861 a problem, but is this mother Sarah Vine in 1871 census:-

George Mcbean 48 b Greenwich
Sarah Vine 45 Widow/Sister b Greenwich
Sarah Shaw 74 Widow/Mother b Portsmouth
Residing Union Place, Greenwich
Census ref RG10/757/6/6
Keyboard86

 With Sarah Shaw on both 1861/71 looks suspicious with Busey  surname, on FindMyPast transcribed as Bary, Sarah Shaw 62 b Portsmouth Mother in Law in 1861 census.

Witnesses to marriage for Arthur Hurley would possibly help.
Still trying to work out if the above is correct, how it came about?!
Keyboard86


Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 19 14:44 BST (UK)
Baptism Arthur Hurley 19th March 1873 Christchurch, Greenwich
Father Arthur Mother Emily

Well found I had tried but failed to find it transcribed as HUTLEY on Anc*y

2 Union Place Old Woolwich Road
Arthur HURLEY occ Lighterman


Do we know if  Arthur Hurley born 1873 has died?

Arthur HURLEY 1906 m/c father Arthur occupation given as Waterman

from parish register  http://www.parishregister.com/aboutstp.html#ancestors

Waterman or Lighterman Ancestor then you are very fortunate indeed. The surviving records of the Company of Watermen & Lightermen are rich and varied, and date back to the late 17th Century.

The Bindings books (recording when and to whom an apprentice was 'bound') and the Affidavit birth proof records (noting the date and place of birth of an apprentice) provide a straightforward source of genealogical information................available in a PDF searchable format on CD-ROM

a Waterman was someone licensed to navigate and pilot passenger vessels on the River Thames

a Lighterman, worked on barges, carrying goods or wares up and down the river and from cargo ships to shore

De880 can you give us the witnesses named on m/c please as they might be helpful

ADDED - I have searched for Arthur Hurley on these records on F M P but nothing

Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010

London, Watermen, Birth Register Of Contracted Men, 1865-1921

 
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Sunday 02 June 19 16:12 BST (UK)
Hi the witness names look like
W Croucher and W laxley
I have posted a picture of certificate on ansetrey.co.uk under Arthur and Minnie
You might read it differently:)
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Sunday 02 June 19 16:24 BST (UK)
What other certificates would help ?
Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 02 June 19 17:19 BST (UK)
What other certificates would help ?
Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?

 :) This family have been causing me problems for weeks, perhaps the marriage certificate of Arthur HURLY to Emily Vine 1878 Greenwich 1d 847 or the birth certificate of the earlier Arthur Hurley 1873 Romford mmn Vine possibly baptised 19th March 1873 Greenwich Chirstchurch Father Arthur Mother Emily
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 19 17:23 BST (UK)
What other certificates would help ?

Maybe a birth certificate we think could be the one I could order ?

You've confirmed from Arthur Hurley marriage certificate that he was 23 age (born c1883)
and his father was Arthur Hurley occupation Waterman (deceased)

When did his father die? - a suggested death posted previously
Dec 1889  Greenwich    1d   533    Arthur Hurley   age  41   

Also confirmed from address 45 Rope yard rails woolwich a connection with Hurley/Smith/Hadaway
and 1901 census showing Emily & Henry Smith with Arthur 1884 & George 1876 (Early) same address

London Electoral Register

1923 Emily Smith, Henry Smith & William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
1933 Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway at 45 Ropeyard Rails Woolwich

Next step could be to confirm who Arthur's parents were - Are they Arthur & Emily Vine?
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 19 17:30 BST (UK)

 :) This family have been causing me problems for weeks, perhaps the marriage certificate of Arthur HURLY to Emily Vine 1878 Greenwich 1d 847

The marriage detail available on line posted  (reply 20)

18 Mar 1878 St John, Deptford, Lewisham
Emily VINE father William occ Chimney Sweep
Arthur HURLY occ labourer father John occ Labourer
both f/a & single, both made their mark (x), both residence 8 Mill Lane

added the 2nd marriage for Emily Hurley (reply 17)

7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Henry SMITH  28 carman 33 Union Buildings Woolwich
father Henry carman
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse,  22 Union Buildings
father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)

the birth certificate of the earlier Arthur Hurley 1873 Romford mmn Vine


I agree

I was wondering if this was his death entry

Dec 1873 Poplar   1c   562
Arthur Hurley age   1   
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 02 June 19 17:35 BST (UK)
 :) As usual forgot marriage details had already been located!
Keyboard86

But 1881 has William Hurley as head with Emily, and Sarah Vine Mother in Law?
Census ref RG11/713/21/6
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 19 17:50 BST (UK)

But 1881 has William Hurley as head with Emily, and Sarah Vine Mother in Law?

Yes, it's all very confusing  ??? Can't find a marriage for a William Hurley to Emily Vine

Posted previously this seems to be Emily's baptism but I haven't found a birth registration to confirm her mother's maiden name  ???

Emily Vine born 2nd Mar
Baptism 31 Mar 1854 Greenwich St Alphege, Greenwich
Father:   William Vine occ Sweep
Mother:   Sarah Vine
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: keyboard86 on Sunday 02 June 19 18:03 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk, are their no school/workhouse admissions to be found for the Arthur Hurley b 1873?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 June 19 18:12 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk, are their no school/workhouse admissions to be found for the Arthur Hurley b 1873?


Not that I could find only Arthur bn c1884 (reply 11)
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: De880 on Monday 10 June 19 15:46 BST (UK)
Have just received the birth certificate
Which hopefully give my clues to my search
Birth registry Greenwich st Paul’s Deptford
Where and when born 16 th nov 1884 address 8 Mill lane
Name Arthur. 
Fathers name Arthur Hurley  Occupation Labourer
mother Emily Hurley formerly Vine  address 8 Mill lane
Registered 16 Dec 84
Do you think this is the correct Arthur with all the other evidence you have helped me find
Thankyou
Title: Re: Birth look up please , Arthur Hurley born c1882.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Saturday 15 June 19 11:43 BST (UK)
Have just received the birth certificate
Which hopefully give my clues to my search
Birth registry Greenwich st Paul’s Deptford
Where and when born 16 th nov 1884 address 8 Mill lane
Name Arthur. 
Fathers name Arthur Hurley  Occupation Labourer
mother Emily Hurley formerly Vine  address 8 Mill lane
Registered 16 Dec 84
Do you think this is the correct Arthur with all the other evidence you have helped me find
Thankyou

The only slight doubt I had was that on your Arthur's 1906 m/c to Minnie his father Arthur's occupation was given as a Waterman

a Waterman was someone licensed to navigate and pilot passenger vessels on the River Thames

I looked and could not find a father & son named Arthur together on census with occupation Waterman.

The 1873 baptism of Arthur Hurley  parents Arthur & Emily his father occ Lighterman

a Lighterman, worked on barges, carrying goods or wares up and down the river and from cargo ships to shore

Arthur Hurley Snr. occ  a labourer on census which matches the b/c of Arthur 1884.

The address 45 Ropeyard Rails on Arthur’s 1906 m/c to Minnie Hadway seems to confirm a connection with the Smith/Hurley/Hadaway’s who were living at that  address in *1923 & *1933. 

*Emily Smith, Henry Smith, William Hurley 45 Ropeyard Rails
*Emily Smith, Henry Smith, George Hurley & William Hadaway
Not checked to see if William Hadaway was Minnie's brother

1891 census shows Emily has remarried she married Henry on 7 Sep 1890 Holy Trinity, Woolwich, Greenwich
Emily EARLY 30 widow, nurse  22 Union Buildings father William VINE occ sweep
she made her mark (x)
Witnesses Mary Bu?nitt (x) & Daniel VINE (x)

Arthur has brothers named George, Walter & William

3 Union Buildings Union Street Woolwich                       
Joseph   Lacey   Head   Married         1832   General Labourer   Ireland
Mary A   Lacey   Wife   Married         1832   Ireland
Henry   SMITH   Boarder   Married      1861   General Labourer   London, Middlesex,
Emily   ditto   Boarder   Married   1856   London, Middlesex,
George   ditto   Boarder   Single   1877    London, Middlesex
Walter   ditto   Boarder         1881   London, Middlesex
Arthur   ditto   Boarder     1885    London, Middlesex

bpt of his brother George 10 June 1877  address Mill Lane and father Arthur occ Labourer and George's 1877 birth entry shows mn VINE

Walter and Arthur Hurley were of 3 Union Buildings when they enrolled at Union St School in 1891