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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: ScottishAncestors on Friday 24 May 19 02:23 BST (UK)
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I was wondering if some kind person could look up a birth record for me.
My Scottish ancestor, Sylvinia Emily Adams was born 1850 - 1855 in Aberdeen, Scotland.
Sylvinia states in her marriage certificate (1876 Queensland, Australia) that she was born around this time in Aberdeen, Scotland and that her parents names were James Adams (occupation: Farmer) and Jane Elizabeth McLean (could also be Janet).
I have spent several years searching for any type of record for her, but to no avail so far.
Adams is a main branch in my family history, but this has created a huge brick wall in my research.
If anyone can help, I would be so grateful.
Thank you.
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I was wondering if some kind person could look up a birth record for me.
My Scottish ancestor, Sylvinia Emily Adams was born 1850 - 1855 in Aberdeen, Scotland.
Sylvinia states in her marriage certificate (1876 Queensland, Australia) that she was born around this time in Aberdeen, Scotland and that her parents names were James Adams (occupation: Farmer) and Jane Elizabeth McLean (could also be Janet).
I have spent several years searching for any type of record for her, but to no avail so far.
Adams is a main branch in my family history, but this has created a huge brick wall in my research.
If anyone can help, I would be so grateful.
Thank you.
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"..Jane Elizabeth McLean (could also be Janet)." Where do you see her as Janet?
BDM QLD
1876 C745 Sylvinia Emily ADAMS marr. John James CARLTON
BDM QLD births
1880 C3213 Ethel Frances CARLTON parents John James / Sulvina Emily Adams
1882 B29184 Janet May CARLTON parents John James / Sylvinia Emily Adams
1885 B35002 Florence Eva CARLTON parents John James / Sylvinia Emily Adams
1889 B42597 Marion Carnegie CARLTON parents John James /Sylvinia Emily Adams
Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 1876.
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BDM QLD birth
1874 B17240 George ADAMS parents - / Solvina Emily ADAMS
BDM QLD death
1875 B9093 George ADAMS parents - / Silvia Emily ADAMS
** born Brisbane aged 11 months
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Hi ScottishAncestors and welcome to Rootschat.
My initial thoughts are that Sylvinia Emily are very striking and unusual names for Aberdeenshire in the 1850s, and I wonder if these were her birth names :-\ ??
Do you have any idea when Sylvinia arrived on Australia?
Another point - her daughter's name Marion Carnegie is interesting- that sounds very Scottish.....maybe named after a grandmother or aunt ?? Might be a red herring but could be a useful clue.
Looby ;)
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Hi All,
On all the records I have found for Sylvinia Emily Adams, she has been consistent in stating that she was born in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Her birth years on all records range from 1850 to 1855. The actual names of her parents on her marriage certificate are James Adams (a farmer) and Jane Elizabeth McLean. I mentioned Janet as I know that this is more common than Jane in Scotland.
When Sylvinia came to Australia there was also a G. W. Adams, a Catherine Adams and one other Adams that I cannot recall just now, on the same ship. They may possibly be related to her, maybe not. I have not been able to make a connection between them, and they were all in different classes on the boat, so possibly not related. The archives in Queensland stated they do not have the individual passenger papers anymore as they had been lost or never kept.
Yes, I've always thought that Sylvinia was always an interesting name for someone supposedly born in Scotland. I've never seen it used there, other than my ancestor's name.
This particular ancestor is proving to be very elusive before she came to Australia. I am hoping that some day I will be able to get a lead however, as Adams is a main branch of my family tree. It is rather disappointing to run in to a brick wall so early on this branch. I cannot find a birth record, nor does she appear on any census in Scotland before arriving in Australia.
The only other lead I have had, is a couple who have the same names as Sylvinia's parents, who were married in Barony in 1850, then moved with their children to the USA, settling in Alabama. However, there is no record of a child with the name of Sylvinia being born to them. Still, they have the correct names and correct time of marriage.
LOOBY, I too have wondered if Sylvinia was actually her true birth name. Her children's names are mostly taken from her husband's family, except for Janet. The only child that had a different name was the little boy, George, she had before she married. I can only imagine that it must have been a difficult and sad situation for her being a very young, single girl, in a new country. On the ship the young girls had a chaperone and when they first arrived in Australia, but after that they were on their own for the most part. The little boy died before the age of one, and a few years later Sylvinia met and married her husband.
Sylvinia arrived in Rockhampton, Australia on 19 November, 1870, on the ship Royal Dane.
Thank you to both of you, loobylooayr and wivenhoe. All are very good suggestions and points. I know there is a chance, depending on the exact year that Sylvinia was born, that I may never find a birth record for her. There are so many James Adams' in Aberdeen also, that were farmers. The James (Mc)Adam I found who married a Janet McLean were the ones who moved to the USA. I haven't found another couple with those names so far.
Wivenhoe, the other information on the marriage certificate is as follows;
Date: 26th September, 1876, Rockhampton, Queensland. Names: John James Carlton (Bachelor) Liverpool, Lancashire, England, and Sylvinia Emily Adams, Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland (Spinster). Married in the house of Hugh Lawbie Morton, Kent Street, Rockhampton according to the rites and ceremonies of the Presbyterian Church. John Carlton was an iron moulder, Sylvinia was a domestic servant. Both state their ages to be 21. Place of residence: Rockhampton. Parents names: James Carlton and Mary Peebles, James Adams and Jane Elizabeth McLean. Fathers professions: Iron dresser (Carlton), Farmer (Adams).
Sylvinia is the mystery person in my family tree. I have often thought that she must have another name, or a different birth place.
I appreciate all the help and comments. Thank you, all.
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post deleted..... was chasing the wrong Sylvinia ::)
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QLD BDM birth
1874 B17240 George ADAMS parents - / Solvina Emily ADAMS
QLD BDM death
1875 B9093 George ADAMS parents - / Silvia Emily ADAMS
** born Brisbane aged 11 months
1896 B29086 Sylvinia Emily CARLTON parents James ADAMS / Jane Elizabeth McLEAN
Do you have the birth certificate for George ADAMS born 1874. Can you please list all the information on the document.
Do you have the death certificate for Sylvinia Emily CARLTON, died 1896. Can you please list all the information on the document.
From the marriage certificate, 1876, what names do you see for witnesses.
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"..On all the records I have found for Sylvinia Emily Adams, she has been consistent in stating that she was born in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. "
What records have you found. Can you be specific please.
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There is a Sylvia Adams in the Free Passage list for the Royal Dane, 1870-1871.
Malky
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All the records include the following;
Shipping Manifest
Death Certificate
Marriage Certificate
First Child's death certificate (George)
All of the above, except shipping manifest, state Aberdeen, Scotland as Sylvinia's place of birth.
The only witnesses on the marriage certificate are the officiating minister, Alexander Hay, as well as Hugh Lawbie Morton and David Watson. I've checked out Morton and Watson, they were not relatives or friends of Sylvinia or her husband.
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There is a Sylvia Adams in the Free Passage list for the Royal Dane, 1870-1871.
Malky
Hi Malky, Thank you for the shipping manifest for the Royal Dane. I have this already, but have still yet to track down the other Adams people who were also on board, who may or may not be related to my ancestor, Sylvinia. This ship manifest and other Australian records are all the records I have found so far. It is rather strange that Sylvinia doesn't show up in any Scottish records or any other UK records that I've searched. Her birth and life before she came to Australia, remains a mystery. Thank you for your input. It is very much appreciated.
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"..On all the records I have found for Sylvinia Emily Adams, she has been consistent in stating that she was born in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. "
What records have you found. Can you be specific please.
Hi Wivenhoe, Sorry I am new at RootsChat. I posted my reply to you in the general part of this chat. I've only just realized that I can reply directly to each person. I'm learning as I go on this web site.
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It would be better to post to the forum so that everyone contributing to your enquiry has the same information.
The birth certificate for George ADAMS born 1874 would be useful for your research. There will be a date and place for the birth, date and place for the registration, name of informant.....and age for mother. I think that Sylvia might have lowered her age to 21 years at 1876 because she is marrying a younger John James CARLTON. Her age on the birth certificate would be good to see.
Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for Sylvinia Emily CARLTON, died 1896. Everything on the document please. Do not leave out any details.
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"On all the records I have found for Sylvinia Emily Adams, she has been consistent in stating that she was born in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Her birth years on all records range from 1850 to 1855. The actual names of her parents on her marriage certificate are James Adams (a farmer) and Jane Elizabeth McLean. I mentioned Janet as I know that this is more common than Jane in Scotland"
Does the marriage state whether either/both parents were deceased? (Edited to make sense) ::)
Jane/Jean are interchangeable same for Janet/Jessie
Annie
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"Sylvinia arrived in Rockhampton, Australia on 19 November, 1870, on the ship Royal Dane"
Sorry if I've overlooked this, where did she sail from?
Annie
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BDM QLD marriage
1900 C1706 Agnes Mary CARLTON marr. Frank James THOMAS
1900 B446 Ethel Frances CARLTON marr. Charles Frederick HAMER
1902 C1689 Janet May CARLTON marr. James William DODDS
1907 C1110 Florence CARLTON marr. Thomas RICHARDSON
1909 B7905 Marion Carnegie CARLTON marr. Thomas Michael Joseph WILLIAMSON
BDM QLD births
1901 C8292 THOMAS Percival Ernest parents Frank / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1905 C7885 THOMAS Francis Harold parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1907 B15980 THOMAS Leslie James parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CHARLTON
1910 B22678 THOMAS Roy Henry parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1912 B30436 THOMAS Sylvia Rebecca parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1915 B39037 THOMAS Thelma Agnes parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1917 B49923 THOMAS Cecil William parents Francis James / Agnes Mary CARLTON
1901 C4078 HAMER Charles Sylvinus parents Charles Frederick / Ethel Frances CARLTON
1903 C7365 DODDS Leslie John parents James William / Janet May CARLTON
1905 C8103 DODDS Sylvia Florence parents James William / Janet May CARLTON
1908 B16266 DODDS William James parents James William / Janet May CARLTON
1910 B22422 DODDS Charles Sylvanus parents James William / Janet May CARLTON
1911 B27212 DODDS Mavis Florence parents James William / Janet May CARLTON
1910 C3872 WILLIAMSON Sylvia Winifred
parents Thomas Michael / Marion Conagia CARLTON
1912 B27894 WILLIAMSON Michael Thomas Joseph
parents Thomas Michael Joseph / Marion Carnagie
When the name Sylvanus, with variation, appears in the next generation, it would seem to be gender specific....used for boys. I wonder if it is a family name (surname) from earlier ADAMS ancestry?.
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"Sylvinia arrived in Rockhampton, Australia on 19 November, 1870, on the ship Royal Dane"
Sorry if I've overlooked this, where did she sail from?
Annie
Hi Annie!
The ship set sail at London:
Name: Sylvia Adams
Age: 19
Birth Year: abt 1851
Ship Name: Royal Dane
Port of Departure: London, England
Port of Arrival: Rockhampton
Arrival Date: 19 Nov 1870
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Incidentally, there was a Catherine, Sylvia and a Charles all on the manifest, and there are records for Catherine, born Stourbridge March 1843, Sylvia born Stourbridge June 1840 and Charles, born Stourbridge Dec 1841.
Malky
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Thanks bbart! ;)
Hmm...The Manifest has Sylvia born c1851 & Malky has found a birth for 1840...
Has anyone found the family in 1851?
Annie
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GRO has:
ADAMS, CATHERINE KINGTON
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 18 Page 496
ADAMS, SYLVIA FIDDIAN
GRO Reference: 1840 J Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 18 Page 441
ADAMS, CHARLES EVERS
GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE UNION Volume 18 Page 445
As Malky said, an incidental finding. I think the ages are too far out for the Miss Adams in question?
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bbart...
Have you found a marriage for Adams - FIDDIAN?
I wonder if Jane Elizabeth McLean was a 2nd wife/partner?
"Fiddian: This ancient surname, originally popular in Cornwall, is a development of the medieval given name 'Vivianus', of Roman (Latin)"
"When the name Sylvanus, with variation, appears in the next generation, it would seem to be gender specific....used for boys. I wonder if it is a family name (surname) from earlier ADAMS ancestry?"
https://www.behindthename.com/name/sylvanus
From the marriage, father James was a Farmer...
"It is no coincidence the fields and forests surrounding the Mediterranean are haven to shepherds, farmers, and wildlife. They're guarded by aged Sylvanus, a benevolent spirit of nature, whose glittering eyes and easy grin match the vibrant life that grows in these lands."
One never knows from where, names were derived?
No help in finding her but you did wonder about the name ;)
Annie
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Hi All,
I'm not convinced the Sylvia Adams in Stourbridge is the correct lady.
The above is listed on the 1861 Census at Halesowen with her family. She is recorded as Silvey Adams , she's 19 and a Nailer. Parents are Charles and Sarah Adams.
Looby :)
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Thanks Looby,
I did doubt it myself as did bbart but worth checking to be sure as Sylvia's age differed a lot as did her name so it's good to have it discounted.
Annie
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Thanks Looby,
I did doubt it myself as did bbart but worth checking to be sure as Sylvia's age differed a lot as did her name so it's good to have it discounted.
Annie
Think I've found her marriage to a George Crumpton in 1869 - and the couple are on the 1871 Census at Hasbury, Worcestershire https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5B7-YYS
So that does seem to discount her.
Back to the drawing board ;D
Looby
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I was also thinking that she might just be "Emily", and took on a new first name when she set sail to start a new life, but I can't find an Emily that works either!
Annie: I didn't look for the Adams/Fiddian marriage; like everyone else, I figure it was an incidental finding, and didn't want to muck things up further with more names and places!
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Annie: I didn't look for the Adams/Fiddian marriage; like everyone else, I figure it was an incidental finding, and didn't want to muck things up further with more names and places!
No problem bbart...it was just another way of possibly discounting as it was more the fathers' name/occ. which was of interest for that reason ;)
I searched Scottish records for an Emily/Emma (interchangeable) but not much luck.
Annie
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I was also thinking that she might just be "Emily", and took on a new first name when she set sail to start a new life, but I can't find an Emily that works either!
Or...was she illegitimate or adopted either being possible?
How coincidental is this...
http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=emily
The name variants used on the above were taken from...
"FreeCEN 1841 Census of Aberdeenshire"
Annie
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When George was born, Sylvinia states her age as being 20.
No, unfortunately Sylvinia's marriage certificate does not state whether her parents are still living.
I have visited the archives in Brisbane, but they did not have the individual passenger manifests, which sometimes lists the parents names and whether they are still living or not. The archives told me that these records no longer exist, only the general shipping record for the Royal Dane.
The Royal Dane sailed from London, England in 1870.
The only couple I have been able to come up with, who married around the same time frame that Sylvinia was born, was a James McAdam and a Janet McLean who married on 7 April 1850, Barony, Lanark, Scotland.
The Dodds also named one of their daughters Sylvia, in honor of Sylvinia. The name (Sylvia) has been used in our family, starting with Sylvinia.
Yes, I have wondered about the name, as I am aware that it means from the forest and is of European origin.
Yes, Sylvinia could possibly be adopted or illegitimate. Hmmm, I wonder?
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Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for Sylvinia Emily CARLTON, died 1896. Everything on the document please. Do not leave out any details.
Can you please list all the information on the death certificate for George ADAMS, died 1875.
The birth certificate for George ADAMS, 1874, would be useful to your research. You need to see this certificate.
BDM NSW birth
3798/1877 CARLTON Agnes M parents John J / Sylvinia E @ Balmain (4 Nov 1877)
Why are Sylvia and James in Sydney in 1877?. This birth certificate would be useful to your research. Agnes would likely be born at a residential address, which could lead to relatives.
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None of the current documents I have give any further clues as to whether or not Sylvinia was or was not born in Aberdeen, Scotland. There are other documents that I will order in the hope that I will glean more vital information from them.
Thank you, everyone for your input. My search continues.
COMPLETE
Thank you. :)
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I'm looking to find out about my grandad... James walker adams!! I did my dna and know hes from aberdeen born 1922 I need to find his mum and dad I can't find nothing other than where he's been arrested... but nothing about his parents or any family members.... I know my dad and his sister s and brother but nothing about james walker adams family tree I realy need help i have been trying for years
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I'm looking to find out about my grandad... James walker Adams!! I did my dna and know hes from aberdeen born 1922 I need to find his mum and dad I can't find nothing other than where he's been arrested... but nothing about his parents or any family members.... I know my dad and his sister s and brother but nothing about james walker adams family tree I realy need help i have been trying for years
There is a birth of a James walker Adams in Rubislaw in 1922 which is an area in Aberdeen you can find this on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ which is a pay to view site for a reasonable cost
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I have looked at all this stuff but can't find anything to do with his parents... all I need is to find out my grandads mum and dad but nothing anywhere!!! I have been doing my family tree for years and my grandads the only person I have struggled with thanks for looking tho it's much appreciated.
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I have looked at all this stuff but can't find anything to do with his parents...
You need to download the birth certificate, however, there's a minimum, minimal cost via purchase of credits.
The BC will give you the address James Walker Adams was born, names of both parents including mother's maiden surname (possibly Walker) & the date/place they were married.
All this info. for £7.50 leaving you credits for the next stage...the MC of his parents & still some credits left!
Annie