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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Hermit73 on Monday 20 May 19 00:19 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm looking for some advice about how to get the info from a hard to read early 1800s gravestone photo on findagrave. I'm sure some of it is worn with age, but the issue is mostly the angle of the photo and the fact it's covered in lichen (the stone is flat on the ground). If someone is local to Thornton-le-Moors, or if they know what steps I should take, short of going there myself with paper and crayon, please help. How do I go about getting someone to help me transcribe it; is it rude to contact the FaG contributor and ask for a better pic? They have detailed 2 names from the stone (and they've also added the woman's birth name). I added another name that I could see, and confirmed with burial record & baptism. I think I know most of the names/dates that should also be on the stone, going by burial records, and I'm now imagining that I can see them, after staring at it close up for ages, lol!
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You can request photos of the names that should be there, but unless you know the plot numbers they can be a beggar to locate.
From what ive done, id expect gravestones or inscriptions to represent at most 40% of the bodies interred.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2577403/st.-mary's-churchyard is it this one?
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From what ive done, id expect gravestones or inscriptions to represent at most 40% of the bodies interred.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2577403/st.-mary's-churchyard is it this one?
That's the one Pauline. The stone is: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/147985215/elizabeth-sudlow
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If you have any idea where it is in the cemetery, I should be able to visit and try and read.
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If you have any idea where it is in the cemetery, I should be able to visit and try and read.
That would be brilliant!... however I can't see any plot number on findagrave. Looking at the graveyard on satellite map there are quite a lot of similar stones near the church building . BUT, I reckon it's got to be around the front (S-SE of church). I can see where I think it is. 2 stones close together, SE of the church doors, that look a good match GPS@ 53.265012, -2.838262 . I wish I could attach a screengrab here! I'll try messaging the original photographer, but it was 4 years ago the image was added. Looks like a lovely place, wish I could get there myself! I will one day!
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Given there are two slightly raised slabs next to each other and then a table-top tomb above right, that should limit the possible spots. I will try and get there this weekend unless somebody beats me to it.
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Many thanks, SiGr!!
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Hi, it is done. I have uploaded to www.findagrave.com with photos and a transcription. All necessary changes there are almost complete but a couple are outstanding, such as wrong parents (caused by previous mis-reading of the inscription). I have messaged the profile owner so it is over to them to action. There might be a subsequent change to make as well. In the meantime, the transcription on www.findagrave.com tells you exactly who is there and how they are related. Meanwhile, the grave to the right of the one you requested is also a Sudlow. Unfortunately, I ran out of water to clean it to be able to read. If you want that one transcribing, let me know and in due course I will go back. PS if you own Joseph's profile, feel free to message me on here and I'll tell you what changes need doing.
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Thank you so much, Si, for your fantastic additions to findagrave! I'm looking at Joseph Sudlow's page now. I do own that one. I had managed to make out a little bit of the transcription, and combined with burial records I had it pegged to be Richard and Esther (Foden). The stone cleaned up a lot better than I thought it would! I'll be in touch about the other stone. Thanks again!
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Hi, Lena,
I just checked Joseph Sudlow and there is be a blip on his www.findagrave.com entry.
It is because you have the same Richard Sudlow (1763-1835) as both Joseph's father and half sibling.
You need to change his father to Richard Sudlow (1732-1801).
So, for Joseph's father you need to delete 147552045 and insert 199322739.
I hope that helps.
Simon
PS it's useful to cut and paste the numbers from the profiles when you check - just in case I have got them wrong.
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Thanks for making that easy for me, Simon. I was just staring at the FaG problem and realised I needed to change something!
I've been trying to trace my direct ancestor link to Thornton-le-Moors, Richard Sudlow 1796-1846. I really hoped he would be named on that stone you transcribed. He is a mystery. I'd love to confirm his parents and go back a generation or 2.
The problem, for anyone able to make suggestions:
The younger Richard Sudlow on the Thornton gravestone died in Plumbe St, in Liverpool, and my Richard also lived and died in Liverpool. Both of their death notices in the newspapers say they are 'late of Hapsford', yet I cannot find my Richards burial, or baptism. I know some of the early Thornton records are damaged... I was thinking Richard and Elizabeth were his parents, but my Richard seems to have hit hard times. Working as a Porter, supporting his 7 year old son alone, he was in the workhouse medical ward in 1844, 1845 & 1846, each time his birthplace is blank or 'unknown'.
What I think is his death notice, says: Liverpool Mercury: "Oct 30, aged 50, Mr Richard Sudlow, late of Hapsford, Cheshire".
1822: Richard marries Ann Wright of Dunham/Thornton-L-M, in St Oswalds, Chester. Richard is a farmer. Both of this parish.
They have children in Thornton, Manley, Woolton, Allerton, Manley, then Liverpool.
1841 census: Mile End, Liverpool, says he was born in this county. His youngest son is with him, and it would seem that his 2 daughters are living separately, in Richmond Row, Liverpool, with a 'Hannah Sudlow', a Victualler (is this Ann Wright? but I cannot find her death).
I cannot find graves or burial records for Richard and Ann, or any of their children.
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I will hopefully get back to Thornton-le-Moors in the next few days for the other grave.
Meanwhile, did you come across the 'The Liverpool Mercury' of 26 Jan 1858 death announcement that states, "Dec 28, at Toronto, Upper Canada, aged 46, Richard, second son of the late Mr. Richard Sudlow, of this town" ?
NB the numbers '28' and '46' are quite fuzzy so could be '23' 'and '48' - though I am pretty confident the '28' and '46' are correct.
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Also, in 'The Liverpool Mail' of 12 May 1855, the following marriage announcement: "On the 10th instant, at St. Nicholas's Church, by the Rev. A. J. Tomlin, Mr. Benjamin Lyons, of Boughton, in the county of Chester, to Eliza, daughter of the late Mr. Richard Sudlow, of this town".
Might that be one of the other daughters you refer to ?
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I don't recall seeing either of those newspaper entries, Simon. My membership to the newspaper archives expired a few months ago, so for now I'm just working on the summaries I can see. I'll look into the Canada connection. Thanks for that.
The children I have for my Richard & Ann are:
Henry, 1822, Thornton-le-Moors
William, 1825, Garston, Manley
Mary, 1827, Woolton, Lancs.
Mary, 1829, Allerton, West Derby (married Charles Davenport; Mary living Richmond Row, father Richard Sudlow, Servantman, 1846)
Ellen, 1831, Manley, Cheshire (My 3rd G/Grandmother, married George Lloyd, living in Kirkdale, her father Richard Sudlow, deceased, 1861)
Samuel, 1835, Liverpool
(Eliza, who married Benjamin Lyons, was born c1802)
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Hi,
Second grave now done and uploaded. You will need to wait for the owner of each of the graves to accept the amendments but you can see the photos I have uploaded. Meanwhile, here is the text in the formatting on the grave (including William Sudlow's surname split onto two lines):
In Memory
Of Mary late Wife of William
Sudlow of Hapsford who died
August 9th 1799 aged 27 Years.
Also the Body of the above
said William who died July
13th 1808, aged 42.
Also Hannah Wife of Samuel Sud
low of Hapsford who died Sepr. 10th
1837 aged 52.
Also the above Samuel Sudlow
who died January 7th. 1863 aged 82 Years.
Also Samuel, Son of Richard and
Elizabeth Sudlow, of Hapsford who
died July 30th 1863 aged 53 Years.
Also Esther their Daughter, who died
August 1st 1876, aged 80 Years.
There is one final Sudlow grave at Thornton le Moors which I only realised after I had left. It is to the right of these two. But it is only one person at the bottom of the inscriptions. Going off the findagrave photo it seems to read, "Also Hannah, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Sudlow of Hapsford who died October 22nd 1832, aged 69 Years." Next time I go past I will do a check and take a clearer photo. Until then, I will not do any suggested edits on findagrave. I'll update you again then.
Finally, I had a query on the date of Mary Sudlow's death. She was buried on 12 Aug 1799 so her death date is likely 9 Aug. However, the separate photo on findagrave shows the '9' there to be confusing. I created a thread on here which you should find easy enough in case you want to see people's thoughts. There were many helpful responses which you might find interesting.
ATB
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Hi, the final one - Hannah Sudlow - is now amended and uploaded to www.findagrave.com at:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/146712979
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You're a star, Simon. Thanks for all your work! Still no evidence for who my Richard Sudlow's parent were, or where he ended up being buried. At least now I know these stones don't mark his grave, and I will keep looking.
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Just one last thing. Hannah is buried with Hannah Tomlinson (age 60 - died 28 Nov 1758) and Samuel Tomlinson (age 69 - died 29 May 1767). No idea if they are somehow related to your Sudlows but it might provide a lead. ATB. Simon