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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: lmfamilyresearch on Saturday 18 May 19 23:44 BST (UK)
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Hi,
What other names are there for "Sarah"? I know that "Sissy" can be a nickname. I have an ancestor named Sarah Whitaker but I can't find an appropriate baptism for her. As far as I know, she was born in Rochdale, Lanc. She married in 1820 (in Manchester) to George Garth and it indicates she is a spinster. The marriage entry says she is "of this parish and town of Manchester". Does this mean she was born in Rochdale and lived in Manchester when she was married? Since her marriage entry indicates she is a spinster and nothing about being a minor, I am assuming she would have to be at least 21 when she married.
I have found a baptism for a Sally Whitaker on 23 Apr 1799 in Rochdale. Could this be my Sarah?
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Yes, Sally is an alternative to Sarah
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As far as I know, she was born in Rochdale, Lanc. She married in 1820 (in Manchester) to George Garth and it indicates she is a spinster. The marriage entry says she is "of this parish and town of Manchester". Does this mean she was born in Rochdale and lived in Manchester when she was married?
It means she was living in Manchester when she married.
Whitaker is a common surname.
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I too have an ancestor baptised Sally but ever after that recorded as Sarah.
Sue
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Yes, my Sarah was born 1790, England, and she was baptised Sally, but ever after she was Sarah - In family Bibles, on marriage, on baptism of her children, in newspaper announcements, in parish registers, .... She signed letters to her parents as Sally, but to her sisters as Sarah.... her husband wrote to her as Sarah, and she signed her replies as Sally.
JM
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I too have an ancestor baptised Sally but ever after that recorded as Sarah.
Sue
Ditto Sue, I have the exact same although I think she may have been Sally on a couple of census' (from memory)?
She was certainly born Sally (1857) & died as Sarah (1884) unmarried.
IFS...What info. have you gathered from the census' re a PoB?
Annie
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Yes, my Sarah was born 1790, England,
JM
Interestingly, mine was also born and baptised around 1790.
A trend of the time?
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I think 'Sally' has to do with the Wesleyan movement and 'Protesting' , baptised Wesleyan, but of course her marriage was C of E, (English civil law) prior to the family migrating as Wesleyan missionaries to New South Wales and then to New Zealand in the 1820s and then returning to NSW all prior to the Treaty of Waitangi.
JM
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IFS...What info. have you gathered from the census' re a PoB?
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Well, she and George moved to Canada in the late 1820s and she died in 1861 before the census was taken so no way to find out from there. However, her gravestone indicates she was a native of Rochdale. She was always known as Sarah in Canada.
Liisa
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her gravestone indicates she was a native of Rochdale. She was always known as Sarah in Canada.
This is one of the things I've found with Canadian writings, there seems to have been a good recognition of where people originated (not just Country) i.e. the MI is a good indicator of fact in my own experience.
Annie
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My Sarahs were almost all known as Sadie.
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I have had a few different cases with the name Sarah...
Sarah as Clara - (Inverness-shire, Scotland)
Sally as Sarah - "
Sarah as Marion - "
Hannah as Sarah - (N/Irish living in England)
Annie
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Just to add that I have Sarahs in five generations of my maternal line (including nieces). They have all been baptised as Sarah and some have been called Sally as the diminutive but not the other way around.
Gadget
Added - http://www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Sarah.html
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I am wondering if the Sally of the following is my Sarah Whitaker:
Baptism: 23 Apr 1799 Blackwater St Unitarian Chapel, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Sally Whitaker - Daughter of Thomas Whitaker & Betty
Abode: The new road
Notes: [Baptised] at their house
Baptised by: Thomas Threlkeld
Register: Baptisms 1785 - 1837, Page 17
Source: LDS Family Search
Some rootschatters have helped me trace a Charles Whitaker (link to post: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=811734.msg6720964#msg6720964) who was the son of a John Whitaker, who I think is:
Baptism: 1 Aug 1790 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
John Whitaker - Son of Thos. Whitaker & Betty, his wife
Abode: Yorkshire Street
Occupation: Taylor
Baptised by: Thos. Bellas, Curate
Source: LDS Film 2356442 and 1545749
I am making an assumption that Sally and John are siblings since the information seems to line up. The timing of Sally's baptism works with the information on Sarah's gravestone.
I have attached a document with the information that the Lancashire Online Parish Clerk project website has on the parents of siblings that I believe belong to Sarah.
Am I making the right connection between the Sally in the baptism and my Sarah? I must admit, I do hope that this is the right connection. I have been searching for Sarah's family for a long time.
Thanks!
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I can't access the document to read it. A Microsoft update an hour ago may be to blame.
Whitaker surname is common in Lancashire. Betty and Sarah were 2 of the commonest female forenames of the time; ditto Thomas for males. I wouldn't assume anything.
Was there a reason why John was baptised at St. Chad and Sally at a Unitarian chapel? Did Blackwater Unitarian Church exist in 1790 when John was baptised?
"Abode: the new road" on 1799 baptism may have meant a turnpike road. There were new turnpike roads built and existing roads improved all over England mid 18th-early 19th centuries.
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Hi Maiden Stone,
Unfortunately I am unable to answer your questions. To be honest, I didn't really pay attention to the different churches. I guess since my Garth's were baptized in both St. Chad's and Blackwater Unitarian during the same time frame that it simply seemed normal to me :)
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My mother was a Sarah. She HATED being called Sally. She was determined not to have a son (me) with a name that could be changed. She did well with that except in Australia.
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My Aunt Sally (aunt by marriage) lived near Rochdale. I didn't know her name was Sarah until she died.
A sister of a great-grandma was officially Mary Ann but was apparently known as Sally; I assume it was after her aunt Sarah who had been called after her grandmother, Sarah. The 2 real Sarahs, born 1790s and 1840s were Sarah on official documents; I don't know what they were called in everyday life. They were all born in Lancashire.
"Aunt Sally" was a fairground game.
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I've now read the list of children of Thomas & Betty, having found where my computer had hidden it.
I've also looked at Thomas Whitaker life events in Rochdale on LANOPC.
There were 2 Thomas and Betty couples having children baptised in Rochdale in 1790s.
2 marriages at St. Chad's, Rochdale might have been them:
6th Nov. 1788 Thomas Whitaker & Betty Redfearn
4th Jan. 1795 Thomas Whitaker, widower, this parish; Betty Shepherd, widow, this parish. Both made their mark. Witnesses Thomas and George Fletcher. Married by licence.
Burials of interest at St. Chad's:
*10th Nov. 1793 Betty Whitaker, wife of Thomas; abode Rochdale; occupation tailor
29th Nov. 1812 Betty Whitaker, wife of Thomas; abode Rochdale
There were other Betty Whitaker burials.
This may be burial of one of their children at St. Chad's: 8th Aug. 1792 Mary Whitaker, daughter of Thomas; abode Bank Yard; occupation tailor. (She may have been the Mary baptised in July.)
*10th November was same day as daughter Elizabeth's baptism. :(
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May be marriage of daughter Martha at St. Chad's.
23rd March 1815 groom John Bingley Outram. Witnesses Mary Redfearn, James Whitaker. By licence.
A Martha Whitaker married on 30th July 1815 and another in 1822.
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Sadie is another diminutive of Sarah. I had a friend who was baptised Sadie to honour her grandmother and it was only when grandma died that it became apparent that her baptismal name had been Sarah and not Sadie!
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I've now read the list of children of Thomas & Betty, having found where my computer had hidden it.
I've also looked at Thomas Whitaker life events in Rochdale on LANOPC.
There were 2 Thomas and Betty couples having children baptised in Rochdale in 1790s.
2 marriages at St. Chad's, Rochdale might have been them:
6th Nov. 1788 Thomas Whitaker & Betty Redfearn
4th Jan. 1795 Thomas Whitaker, widower, this parish; Betty Shepherd, widow, this parish. Both made their mark. Witnesses Thomas and George Fletcher. Married by licence.
Burials of interest at St. Chad's:
*10th Nov. 1793 Betty Whitaker, wife of Thomas; abode Rochdale; occupation tailor
29th Nov. 1812 Betty Whitaker, wife of Thomas; abode Rochdale
There were other Betty Whitaker burials.
This may be burial of one of their children at St. Chad's: 8th Aug. 1792 Mary Whitaker, daughter of Thomas; abode Bank Yard; occupation tailor. (She may have been the Mary baptised in July.)
*10th November was same day as daughter Elizabeth's baptism. :(
Hi Maiden Stone,
There was a reason I discounted the mother being Betty Shepherd but silly me didn't write down why and now I can't remember why (sigh). Although now I am wondering if Thomas first married a Hannah, secondly married Betty Redfearn and then thirdly married Betty Shepherd. It looks like the burial for a Betty, wife of Thomas Whitaker (tailor) on 10 Nov 1793 is Betty Redfearn. It could be that the burial for Betty, wife of Thomas Whitaker on 29 Nov 1812 is Betty Shepherd.
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Occupations on marriage register might have helped. 1795 marriage was by licence. It doesn't seem to be in Lancashire Archives catalogue. I was hoping it would have occupation.
The possibility of Thomas marrying 3 times, twice to women called Betty, occurred to me. However there's no evidence. They are such common names, it's just as likely Thomas was a different man. The fact that baptisms of children of the 2 Thomas & Betty marriages were in churches of different denominations gives me pause for thought. You would need to investigate the history of that Non-Conformist church in Rochdale. Late 18th century C.of E. baptism registers might include children of non-Anglican parents, as there was a tax on births for a period and Anglican clergy were responsible for collection.
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George, my Sarah's husband, and a couple of his siblings were baptized at Blackwater Street Presbyterian whereas some of his other siblings were baptized at Union Street Wesleyan (and it seems to switch back and forth). A couple of George and Sarah's children were baptized at St. Chad's, the others were born in Canada.
It would be so much easier if I had some clue to Sarah's parents. The only thing I can go by is John's (ca. 1790) grandchildren calling Charles Garth (George Garth and Sarah Whitaker's son) "cousin". The only John I can find born about 1790 is the one who has Thomas as a father (and who is a tailor).
A lot of the problem is that I can't even say for sure when Sarah was born. Her death/burial record says she was 57 years; her gravestone says 58 years; her marriage certificate calls her a spinster and doesn't indicate whether she was full age, a minor or had parents consent; I can't find the 1851 Canada Census for the Montreal area (there are several areas in Canada that don't have the 1851 census available); and she died before the 1861 census was taken.
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May be marriage of daughter Martha at St. Chad's.
23rd March 1815 groom John Bingley Outram. Witnesses Mary Redfearn, James Whitaker. By licence.
A Martha Whitaker married on 30th July 1815 and another in 1822.
Imo Martha who married John Outram was a daughter of the Thomas Whitaker and Betty Redfearn marriage. Unless the Mary Redfearn witness was merely a friend.
Btw there were several Redfearn tailors but that may be coincidence.
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My Great Aunt was always called Sally but on her birth and baptism certificates it was Sarah. Always baffles me why names were changed, my mum was Marie Blanche, known as Blanche, dad was John known as Jack. Why not give them these names in the 1st place.😊