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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: cumbria nige on Sunday 12 May 19 19:23 BST (UK)
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Can SKE help in directing me, please?
I'm looking to find a trace on a John Cuthbert thought to have been born in abt. 1839 maybe in Woolwich. It is known that he married Rose Lavina Gregory on 20th Mar 1871 in Woolwich and may have died abt 1911 in Greenwich. Nothing else is known.
Thank you
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Hi,
As you have the marriage date do you have the marriage cert which may give the name of John's father?
JJ
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Some extra info from the marriage
Father also John, both labourers
John jnr a widower
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Just found the marriage :) His father's name was also John Cuthbert a labourer.
John Cuthbert (jnr) was a widower.
JJ
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Thanks Jen. No, I don't have a copy of the marriage certificate. The marriage date could be incorrect, as the source of the date was not recorded (I'm working off somebody else's notes from a long time ago)
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Suspect this may be them in 1861 in Deptford,
John Cuthbert 44 - market garden salesman b Camberwell
Mary Cuthbert 44
John Cuthbert 20 - b Southwark. Labourer at [?tin] works
Maryann Cuthbert 17
Charles Cuthbert 13
Edward Cuthbert 12
Ann Cuthbert 10
Emma Cuthbert 8
Carroline Cuthbert 6
Eliza Cuthbert 3
Jane Cuthbert 6/12
RG 9, 393, 130, 9
Fits a marriage for a JOhn Cuthbert jnr, father a fruit salesman, to Elizabeth Willis in 1863 in Lambeth
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Post deleted as Mabel has already posted the info.
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1871 census John and Rose have with them Rose Cuthbert aged 7 (as well as a Gregory stepson). Fits a birth registered with mmn Willis in 1864
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Birth for Jane Cuthbert from the 1861 -
Jane Cuthbert
q4 1859, Greenwich
Vol 1d Page 589
Mother's maiden name - New
JJ
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John's baptism? -
John Cuthbert
Baptism Date - 30 Aug 1840
Baptism Place - St. Mary, Lambeth, Surrey
Father - John Cuthbert
Mother - Mary
JJ
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Can't find a birth record for John with mother's maiden name of New. Perhaps John snr. was married before.
JJ
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1881 John is a boarder with his three sons, says he's married but Rose not with him. No children appear to have been born after 1873
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Can't find a birth record for John with mother's maiden name of New. Perhaps John snr. was married before.
JJ
There's an older child Harriet on 1851. She also has mmn New. Guess John is there somewhere possibly mistranscribed
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Marriage -
John Cuthbert
19 Aug 1838, St George, Camberwell, Southwark
Father - John Cuthbert
Spouse - Mary New
JJ
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Thanks. From the information that you have posted, it would seem that John (jnr) married at least twice. From your data sources, are any of the ages of Elizabeth, Rose and/or John (snr) listed for the time of the marriages?
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Something very odd going on - I think the 1911 death date may be wrong
1881 - John's children are John (1870), Edward (18711874) and Frank (18731875)
1891 - Greenwich. All the boys are listed as stepsons
John Perkins 50
Mary Perkins 50
John Cuthbert 22
Ted Cuthbert 20
Frank Cuthbert 17
RG12; 511; 66; 44
Who's Mary?
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1863 marriage has John jnr and Elizabeth Willis as 'Both of full age' ???
JJ
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1871 marriage -
John - 30
Rose - 21
JJ
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Thanks. This is getting interesting. As you wrote, where did this 'Mary' come in and who is she? .. which leaves me thinking .. when did Elizabeth die?, when did Rose Lavina die, and when, if at all, did John marry Mary, let alone who tis Mary is. What a puzzle! Let alone finding a link to John (snr)!
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Elizabeth would have died after Q1 1868, as they had a child William Willis Cuthbert born and died that quarter
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Yet in 1901 there's a JOhn Cuthbert b c1869 in Greenwich with father John b c1845?
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That 1901C entry would seem to be that for John (jnr) and John (jnr, jnr) wouldn't it?
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That 1901C entry would seem to be that for John (jnr) and John (jnr, jnr) wouldn't it?
Yet in 1901 there's a JOhn Cuthbert b c1869 in Greenwich with father John b c1845?
Not quite sure about that one. I presume this is the 1901 you refer to -
John F Cuthbert 33 b. Greenwich, London
Emma F Cuthbert 32
John Cuthbert 56 b. Greenwich, London
RG13 Piece 539 Folio 97 Page 2
The above John F Cuthbert has mother's maiden name as Amos ???
JJ
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As JOhn & Rose's John was registered as John Francis in Greenwich, wondered if the 1901 John F was him
The John with mmn Amos was registered in Lambeth
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What does seem to be the case is that something happened in August 1884 as Edward and Frank were admitted to the workhouse together by the magistrate and removed a few days later - can;t quite read by whom. May be "relative"
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John and Elizabeth's daughter Rosina Elizabeth [Rose] marries in 1887. Father is listed as telegraph and wire rope maker (fairly sure it's her, there's a Willis witness)
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So, have found John b 1841 on 1911 - not the Greenwich one, but living with his daughter and her husband [Joseph and Rosie Rice] in Willesden
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That would appear to be them. That all ties together in pieces and would appear to suggest that John (refer to as Jnr) was baptised at St. Mary in Lambeth on 30th Aug 1840, marries Elizabeth Willis in 1863, marries Rose Lavinia at an unknown date, and is living with his daughter Rose and son-in-law in 1911. In addition, there is a John (refer to as Snr) who marries Mary New on 19 Aug 1838 in St George's, Camberwell. There is also a John Francis living with a John Perkins on the 1991C, listed as stepson, and Mary - yet unidentified - could be connected, somehow. Lots of questions still and loads to go in search of. For now, thank you to you all and your marvelous skills