RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Mart 'n' Al on Sunday 28 April 19 10:30 BST (UK)
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My cousin and I have done a lot of research in to our ancestry of the last 100 years, and have found that some relatives are less forthcoming with their help. I wondered if anyone else has any experience of this. I really don't think they have anything to hide, but it often seems as if they have.
What about dark secrets that turn out to be less than astonishing?
Martin
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When I first started researching my husband's family tree, my mother-in-law was reluctant to tell me anything about her immediate forebears as "it was no-one's businesses but their own"
But once I had got past the people she would have known / heard spoken of -- she was fascinated by what I was able to find out about who they were, where they lived, what they did etc etc
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First hurdle is a lot of families only recognise back to grandparents as family. I have a cousin, our grandfathers were brothers. He basically adheres to what I said, he doesn't want to know about our Welsh roots which negates my researches pre 1800 as far as he is concerned, and he's not the only one.
Luckily, many many more people are different and giving, otherwise Rootschat wouldn't work.
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This covers two topics really for me.
Attended a funeral in Shropshire.
A group of people were pointed out to me and they were grandchildren of the I first couple I lived with when evacuated.
They had no children ,in their forties,but after a short while of looking after me a baby was on the way.
The baby was ,when adult not interested at all in the family farm and became a tax inspector,met a girl from Wolverhampton and married and lived there.
I made myself known as the daughter of their father’s first cousin .
Explained it all etc and one said “ Perhaps you could help with identifying who the people are in a very old photograph album” ,my mouth began to
water as you can imagine.
They said they would post it to me but it was large seemingly.
I suggested we meet somewhere convenient for them and that we could go through it together.Yes, they would arrange that.
Their mother ( from W/ton ) was not interested in her Shropshire in laws,her
husband ( the baby born after his parents cared for me) was already dead.
It never happened,I tried so hard as what they described was meaningful to me as their great grandma and my grandma were sisters.
Nothing,such miserable excuses,I think their mother had put the kibosh on it all.
I do wonder if I had let them post it what would have happened.
I shared everything I had with them but nothing back.
In the end I thought ,just let it go.
Any of you who remember the topic about murder etc in our family histories
may remember the young woman shot by her father ,manslaughter the verdict,dead new born baby etc, Well there was reputedly a photograph of her in there ,no other exists so I was truly disappointed.
No accounting for folk is there ?
Viktoria.
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I think probably that the main reason, especially in the US, is that the family on my mother's side were from Baden-Württemberg.
One reason could be that the family names Pfisterer-Brück were altered to Fisher and Briggs. My great-grandmother's younger brother worked one year for pork butcher relative in England and was known as Frederick Briggs when he emigrated.
A number of Americans seem to wish to "hide" their German forefathers or maybe it is that they are ignorant of it.
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Yes, could be they know the family has some immigrant ancestry and they are ashamed as they want all English. I am pleased to have Huguenot and Scottish ancestors in my blood though. And possibly Welsh as I have Jones in Oxfordshire and Roberts in London.
When they say "it was all a long time ago" makes me more determined to find the key to Pandora's box.
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I think probably that the main reason, especially in the US, is that the family on my mother's side were from Baden-Württemberg.
My father always said that his father's family originated from Holland, but I had my doubts. I discovered that they also came from Baden- Württemberg. I found my great grandfather's application for emigration to the UK and found both him and my great grandmother on censuses stating where they came from. My father was born in 1923 and my great grandparents (his grandparents) died in 1926 and 1927, so perhaps he didn't remember them. I presume the reluctance to admit the German connection was due to WW1 and WW2.
I have now made contact with a relation of my great grandmother who still lives in Germany, and he was able to give me quite a bit of information.
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When I have been asked about the family tree I notice relatives only want any scandals or to be related to nobility , my husbands family were supposed to be related to a well respected physicist way back, well they had money, lived in a completely different part of England whereas my husbands family were very poor and came for South London, there is no way they are related, and they are not as I have done their complete tree, so a glazed look comes over their faces and I just stop as I know they don't want any more info, got nothing to crow about, you get to learn the ones who are interested
I have however found some really nice distant cousins from my mother's side of the family, so don't give up because people are not interested, do it for your own interest
Happy Hunting
Louisa Maud
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In my experience, the reason people don't respond is laziness. I have sent all mine countless easy-fill forms, on paper and on line. Nothing comes back!
But they do visit the tree on Ancestry and do comment on new finds, but do not contribute themselves.
Regards
Chas
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My Alice's mother's ancestors were Lueddeckes, originally from Halberstadt in East Germany. One emigrated to Missouri in the late 1870s. I haven't looked into the German heritage, (where do I start?) but most of the American ones are descendants.
Martin
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My daughters tell me it is really stupid because they're all dead. My older daughter says I should get a proper hobby but it's an ideal hobby for me given that I can pick it up, lay it down and then pock it back up again. I can't commit to a specific club night due to shift work and other than stuff for the kids and work I don't go out.
My Mum was worried that I'd find out about my Great Uncle. My Great Gran had forbidden mention of him because he had "shamed the family". I did find out about him. He had had an accident at work causing a head injury which in turn led to confusion, mood swings and speech difficulties, he was admitted to the asylum where he sadly died.
My MIL ordered me not to even try and research because SHE wasn't interested. So I just don't tell anyone what I find.
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Pharma, their loss, just enjoy what you are doing, I don't think my daughter is interested but my grandchildren have shown a little interest, so there is hope
Louisa Maud
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My parents had died before I started to show an interest, but remembering the snippets my father used to tell me, I think he would have been very interested in helping. Especially after I found that the man he used to call uncle was actually his half brother.
OHs parents were divided. MIL gave me as much info as she knew but FIL refused to talk and got very irate about it all. It turned out it wasn't family history that was the problem but the fact that he has a vast mistrust of the internet!
Jo
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Ok so would daurs.. particularly the older one.. like to think that in 150 years,a descendant of hers might look at her picture and say "good heavens... our so and so is the spitting image of Great great grandma" And so she wont have entirely gone!
Of course, we all end up on the rubbish tip of history, but I "rescued " 2 great aunts from oblivion just yet, by finding out their names..also an aunt , they all died in infancy.and I'm sure many others could say the same!
Family History has been called the democratisation of history, if being remembered is good enough for the likes of kings and queens,surely it's good enough for the rest of us!
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In my experience, the reason people don't respond is laziness. I have sent all mine countless easy-fill forms, on paper and on line. Nothing comes back!
But they do visit the tree on Ancestry and do comment on new finds, but do not contribute themselves.
Regards
Chas
I have come across such people, seems they want your info, and as much as you can give, then they can run off with it and add it to their trees. Freeloaders.
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My in-laws told me to stop when I discovered they were 4th cousins, lol.
Seriously though they were interested in what I found.
My grandmother was secretive about her immediate family, but still told me more than any of her children knew. I discovered she had born illegitimate, and had had a less than happy childhood with a nasty stepfather. Through documents in the archives I found my great grandfather's name and a whole new line to follow.
There are many reasons why people don't want to share information, or don't want to know about the past.
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Well I suppose the past does not just belong to us, it belongs to everyone in our immediate and extended family.
Some want to know others want to forget .
I get upset when people who know things won’t share because they are not interested,but the people I ask about are my relatives too.
Secrets affect people differently and suicides are always upsetting,a sort of shame I suppose dating from the days when it was a criminal offence.
But thankfully we think of things differently nowadays.
You can’t make someone be interested,sadly, but tell what you know and
at least you have given your rellies an airing,and those not interested now may become interested in time to come .
But family tragedies were traditionally hidden, a dark secret ,so no real catharsis,and the sadness lingers .
To me the greater sadness is that a life is almost expunged from history.
What they were going through to feel suicide was the only way we will never know but I feel they ought to be remembered ,and with compassion.
Not for us to judge.
But old attitudes die hard ,but for someone to never be mentioned again ,wow that ought to be reserved for the worst of the worst ,but then would we ever learn from history?
Deep water now and I cannot swim .
Viktoria.
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To play Devil’s Advocate for a moment, as Viktoria said, the past belongs to all our relatives. As genealogists we want to know all about it, but does that give us the right to expect others to feel the same? If they know things they don’t want to share, should we virtually force them to do so, or should we respect their decision, however frustrating to us?
Then if we discover something about a member of a family, should we tell them or others if they haven't shown any interest? Once said, it can’t be taken back. I think that being the Family Historian carries a lot of responsibility.
I do think that before we start telling people that Uncle Jim was adopted and we know his birth parents, we need to think about who else it affects, how many people might have their life upset. By all means look for these things to satisfy our own curiosity but don't expect everyone else to be so excited or to want to share a secret they have carried all their life.
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I found out something that no one else knew, fortunately the daughter had already died but I made up my mind I would never tell a close family person, I found a court case for maintenance 1904 ish, how can a man, not named on the birth cert but someone else be accused of being the father, he paid up so I assume he had some sort of dalliance, no DNA in those days
Sometimes thing are best left unsaid
Louisa Maud
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To play Devil’s Advocate for a moment, as Viktoria said, the past belongs to all our relatives. As genealogists we want to know all about it, but does that give us the right to expect others to feel the same? If they know things they don’t want to share, should we virtually force them to do so, or should we respect their decision, however frustrating to us?
Then if we discover something about a member of a family, should we tell them or others if they haven't shown any interest? Once said, it can’t be taken back. I think that being the Family Historian carries a lot of responsibility.
I do think that before we start telling people that Uncle Jim was adopted and we know his birth parents, we need to think about who else it affects, how many people might have their life upset. By all means look for these things to satisfy our own curiosity but don't expect everyone else to be so excited or to want to share a secret they have carried all their life.
Personally I only tell people if they specifically ask. I don't hide that I do genealogy, I tell people it's my hobby. If someone asks me to tell them about their ancestors without giving an inkling that they know then I'll warn them they may hear stuff they don't like are they sure they want me to tell them.
However I refuse to stop my hobby because someone else is not interested. Like my MIL wanted me to do. I wouldn't bore someone but I will research for myself.
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On my mother's side I have a lack of relatives to ask! She was an only child as was her Scottish father. The closest relative she was in touch with was a 3rd cousin.
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Unsurprisingly, most people are not interested in other people's families. When I meet other amateur genealogists, they start to tell me fascinating stories about their relatives. Unless this reveals some useful source or technique, I'm polite, but not really interested. I suspect this is often the case. If other family members have not got an interest then a long story about someone they have never heard of may not be helpful.
Also, especially in older generations, there are real inhibitions over so-called "family scandals" - like divorce, suicide, gay people, illegitimacy, poverty, rogues and criminals. It may seem interesting and quaint to us, but these issues have caused real family rifts in the past. Asking questions about these people will often not be helpful. If you know the family history then say so, and let the family come to you with their questions. Don't push too hard.
Just my view.
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Very well put, Groom.
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My wife often relates how her mother would stay schtumm in the nicest possible way when asked about some aspects of family history - which of course seems annoying to us. And on my side, my grandmother was one of nine children: five girls, four boys. Only two of the girls married, and all five led respectable if unremarkable lives. The brothers were not talked about. One is reputed to have committed suicide, one died in infancy, and the other two appear to have been pretty ordinary lower-class Liverpool characters - not respectable at all. :D
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If you discover an affair in your ancestry and tell your relatives they may say "That would never happen in our family, dont be so ridiculous". There is still a stigma about such scandals in family history. If our ancestors were all law abiding then it would not just be Michael Parkinson whose ancestors are "boring" but everyone's.
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I'm not quite sure how to express this thought;- maybe people won't supply information to be put on a public tree because then it can be taken and put on an incorrect tree?
One relation says "Leave the past where it is"!
rayard.
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When I have been asked about the family tree I notice relatives only want any scandals or to be related to nobility , my husbands family were supposed to be related to a well respected physicist way back, well they had money, lived in a completely different part of England whereas my husbands family were very poor and came for South London, there is no way they are related, and they are not as I have done their complete tree, so a glazed look comes over their faces and I just stop as I know they don't want any more info, got nothing to crow about, you get to learn the ones who are interested
I have however found some really nice distant cousins from my mother's side of the family, so don't give up because people are not interested, do it for your own interest
Happy Hunting
Louisa Maud
I have been researching all my life and have found that any relatives I have had contact with have been happy to provide me with information and indeed artifacts, even after I married and started researching my wife's tree her family and relatives have in the main been happy to give me information, photos etc.
Perhaps it is because I don't question (interrogate) them and ask but simply talk to them and show interest in their experiences and memories.
Cheers
Guy
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A relative told me to leave it that when I started researching my gt grandmother, but I carried on because she was just that and I consider we have a right to know !
However, I would tread carefully if I was to find anything of a sensitive nature; the problem being that something I wouldn`t have trouble accepting, someone else might.
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People very dear to me but not related were of interest to me and their tree sort of overlapped mine.
I was just idly trying to sort out a relationship ,a woman married someone with the same surname as her maiden name,her father and husband were both lay preachers in the fervour of 19C Methodism.
It turned out one was adopted,I knew them so well ,but I felt really guilty
for finding out what had never been mentioned and the daughter I felt
would probably be totally unaware of it.
Adoption is not by any means a disgrace,but the reason perhaps in those days and that religious climate may have been. So I closed my computer and have never followed any of it up since.
I realised at once that although I was researching my family tree knowing the families were in some way connected,I ought to have asked.
So I felt very chastened and learnt a very salutory lesson.
Ie That although it was all many many years ago and available for anyone to
look into, it is still a family’s history and to many people private.
I never mentioned my findings and did not pursue it further.
Viktoria.
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One relation says "Leave the past where it is"!
That is an unfortunate attitude. Lessons of all kinds can be learnt from history - it's silly to deliberately ignore it in case it is a bit unexpected. Findings cannot hurt the dead, and any living relations should have no reason to be ashamed.
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Stop worrying..
You found it on the Net... they can find it on the Net.. simple..
ITS OUT THERE then it will be found..
Just dont tell if they dont ask..
:) if they ask tell them to do the research themselves.. Make their own conclusions..
I have lots of little secrets.. na na na na ..
. not telling
they want to know let em find out..
Why should we divulge stuff -- they are NOT ACTIVELY looking for.
xin
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One issue I've encountered (not with my own family) is people not wanting "family stories" checked.
They would far rather take it on faith that (e.g.) granny was both completely honest and accurate (not the same thing) than risk checking it.
Members of this forum will be all too aware of the scope/reasons for inaccuracy in family stories.
BugBear
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Members of this forum will be all too aware of the scope/reasons for inaccuracy in family stories.
I will briefly relate three stories from my family:
(1) Gt-grandfather died at 36 due to illness after being rescued from the sea by lifeboat. He actually died of typhoid, but had been rescued from the tide while fishing several months earlier (local newspaper story).
(2) Other grandfather 'ran away to sea following an incident with a horse'. He seems to have done that in the normal way (at 17) after his father had tried to reclaim unpaid stud fees from a neighbour (local newspaper).
(3) Great-uncle 'put his head in a gas oven'. He certainly disappears from all the likely sources I have looked at, and I still occasionally have another look.
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One issue I've encountered (not with my own family) is people not wanting "family stories" checked.
They would far rather take it on faith that (e.g.) granny was both completely honest and accurate (not the same thing) than risk checking it.
Members of this forum will be all too aware of the scope/reasons for inaccuracy in family stories.
BugBear
Their loss. All my family stories have had some element of truth in it and for some of them the actual story was much more fascinating than the original family story.
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We also have to remember that relatives have their own lives to lead. I recall one cousin of my father's whom I had never met but talked to on the phone. After several very fruitful chats over a period of time I received a very brusque "not interested " out of the blue. I was shocked and a little confused by the sudden change in attitude. I discovered later that she had been terminally ill and passed away soon after.
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people not wanting "family stories" checked.
They would far rather take it on faith that (e.g.) granny was both completely honest and accurate (not the same thing) than risk checking it.
Members of this forum will be all too aware of the scope/reasons for inaccuracy in family stories.
Just!
Helping a friend who's illegitimate father was born 1929 Greenock, Scotland...
He was 'a war baby' but...
The mother was already married to someone else & her husband was in the Army although I don't know whether/where he was in 1928 when child was conceived i.e. almost the truth although not quite ;D
Annie