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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: triode on Sunday 28 April 19 00:27 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am looking for information for Harvey bell who was married to Amelia Bell (Wardman) and George Bell who was married to Hannah Foster. They lived in the Carlisle and Newcastle area and were born in the late 1800's early 1900's. I believe Amelia's father was Joseph Wardman and sisters were Kate,Rose and brother Joe.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Terry
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Hi Terry,
BELL
BIRTH: Harvey Foster BELL, mms FOSTER, registered Mar Qtr 1893, Brampton, Cumberland
MARRIAGE: Harvey F BELL & Amelia WARDMAN married June Qtr 1923 Gateshead, Durham
DEATH: Harvey Foster BELL, dob 12 Jan 1893, death: Jun Qtr 1981 Gateshead
CENSUS 1901: 10 Raven Street, Botchergate, Cumberland
RG13 - Piece 4865 - Folio: 31 - Pg52
Head: Hugh NIXON, 56, marr, Fish Monger (own account) b Ainstable Cimberland
Wife: Hannah NIXON 35, marr, b Corby Hill Cumberland
Step-Son: Horace F BELL 13, Errand Boy (port), b Edmond Castle,
Step-Son: Harvey F BELL 8, b Low Row,
Dau: Edith M NIXON 6, b Carlisle, Cumberland
Dau: Violet NIXON 4, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: Herbert H NIXON, 3, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: George H NIXON 2, b Anglionby, Cumberland
Son: John W. S. NIXON 7mths, b Carlisle
BIRTH: Horace Frank BELL, mms FOSTER, registered Mar Qtr 1888, Brampton
MARRIAGE: Hugh NIXON and Hannah BELL, registered Sep 1894, Carlisle
So looking for Hannah FOSTER, b abt 1866, first husband BELL?
Do you get BELL's first name 'George' from a marriage or birth cert of one of the children?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Wow thanks Ambly for the information. It's a big help to me. I knew there were some nixons in there but didn't know where they fit it.
Thanks so much for your help
Cheers.
Terry Bell
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Hannah with her FOSTER birth family (father & siblings) is seemingly pretty identifiable going back, including:
In 1871 the family is in Corby Hill. Father William FOSTER is a widower aged 48, with 8 children of whom youngest is Hannah 6.
RG10 Piece 5208/ Folio 63/ pg24
In 1881, father William FOSTER is 56, still a widower, with 3 children at home, youngest Hannah aged 15, Housekeeper. Also a Grandson in the house aged 9.
RG11 Piece 5148/ Folio 54/ Pg1
Hannah is showing up as a young widow in 1891:
CENSUS 1891: At Chapel Burn, Denton Nether, Brampton, Cumberland
RG12 /Piece 4280 / Folio 120/ pg 8
Head: Hannah BELL 25, widow, General Domestic Worker, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Fergus W BELL, 6, Scholar, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Tom Guy BELL 5, Scholar, b Hayton, Cumberland
Son: Horace Frank BELL 3, b Hayton, Cumberland
Like son Horace, the sons Fergus William BELL 1885 and Tom Guy BELL 1886 were registered Brampton, as BELL with mms FOSTER
Noting:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWC2-7RF
The NIXON-FOSTER family was a prolific one!
Hannah apparently had two nephews:
Thomas Irving FOSTER , mms NEWTON
Born June Qtr 1889, Cumberland. Son of Hannah's older brother William FOSTER , married Annie NEWTON 1881 .
Isaac MOODY, mms FOSTER
Born Jun Qtr 1891 Cockermouth. Son of Hannah's older sister Margaret who married John Moody in 1889.
Hannah herself appears to be legitimately born - no doubt she was a FOSTER and no reason why she may not be married as FOSTER.
If the quest is to locate the FOSTER - BELL marriage.... then information from the Birth certs of her BELL 3 sons looks like the only place to start. Maybe you already have that info?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Terry,
You also asked about Amelia's father, Joseph... believe Amelia's father was Joseph Wardman and sisters were Kate,Rose and brother Joe.
DEATH: Amelia BELL, DoB 30 Aug 1902
Death Registered Mar Qtr 2005, Tyne & Wear
Inferred Age 102
MARRIAGE Parents:
Mar Qtr 1899,Gateshead
Joseph Arundel WARDMAN
Mary Ann SWADDLE
BIRTH 1902: Amelia WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
registered Sep Qtr, Gateshead,
BIRTH 1904: Catherine Swaddle WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Dec Qtr, Gateshead,
BIRTH 1906: Thomas WARDMAN, mms TWADDLE (sic)
Registered Dec Qtr, Garteshead
BIRTH 1911: Joseph Arundel WARDMAN, mms TWADDLE (sic)
Registered Mar Qtr, Garteshead
BIRTH 1913: Ann WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Dec Qtr, Garteshead
BIRTH 1916: Rose Ann Swaddle WARDMAN, mms SWADDLE
Registered Sep Qtr, Garteshead
Joseph Arundel WARDMAN
BIRTH 1876: Joseph Arundel WARDMAN, mms REED
Registered Jun Qtr Doncaster
BAPTISM 1877:
At St John the Baptist, Barnsley Joseph Arundel WARDMAN, bap 1 Sep 1877, son of of Thomas WARDMAN, Bottle Maker and Ann his wife, abode: 5 Corporation Street.
CENSUS 1881:At 15 Bradley Crescent, Pembroke Road, Shirehampton, Westbury on Trym, Gloucestershire
[Head: not entered - not at home on Census night]
Wife: Ann WARDMAN 40, b Newcastle on Tyne
Dau: Beatrice WARDMAN 10, b Yorkshire
Son: Albert E WARDMAN 6, b Newcastle on Tyne
• Son: Joseph A WARDMAN 4, b Yorkshire
Dau: Lavinia WARDMAN 1, b Gloucestershire
CENSUS 1881: Husband Thomas and their 2 elder sons:
At 50 Raglan Street, St Helens,
Head: Peter BROGAN 32, Bottle Maker, b St Helens
Wife: Anne BROGAN 22,
Son: Wm BROGAN 3,
Son: Thomas BROGAN 1,
Lodger: Thomas WARDMAN 42, marr, Bottlemaker, b Newcastle, Northumberland
Lodger: James WARDMAN 16, Glass worker, b Scotland
Lodger: Tho's WARDMAN 16, Glass worker, b Scotland
CENSUS 1891: At 14 Spoor Street, Dunstan, Whickham, Durham,
Head: Thomas WARDMAN 52, Glass Bottle Maker, b Elswick, Northumberland
Wife: Ann WARDMAN 51, b Newcastle, Northumberland
Son: James WARDMAN 26, unm, Glass Bottle Maker, b Glasgow, Scotland
Son: Thomas WARDMAN 24, unm, Glass Bottle Maker, b Glasgow, Scotland
Dau: Beatrice WARDMAN 20, unm, b Br……… , Yorkshire
Son: Albert E WARDMAN, 16, Apprentice Glass Bottle Maker, b Newcastle, Northumberland
• Son: Joseph A WARDMAN 14, b Masbrough, Yorkshire
Dau: Lovinia A WARDMAN 10, b Shirehampton, Gloucestershire
1901: At 14 West View Tce, Dunston, Whickham, Durham - now married to Mary Ann Swaddle:
Head: Joseph A WARDMAN, 24, Bottle Maker (worker), b Mexbro, Yorks
Wife: Mary A WARDMAN 21, b Dunstan, Durham
DEATH: Joseph A WARDMAN, age 83Y, registered Mar Qtr 1960, Durham
There's a lot to be found :-)
Free sites (have to sign up though):
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
https://www.familysearch.org/en/
Free:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
https://www.freereg.org.uk/
https://www.freecen.org.uk/
Free to Register, Pay to view or subscribe to view full records:
https://www.findmypast.com/1939register
Re: the 1911 Census and the 1939 Register - for copyright reasons we are not allowed do lookups for others and post about it on Rootschat, nor can you ask for Lookups in these two data sets. You can post about the findings that you have made for yourself, in the course of a topic though (but no copy/pasting).
Otherwise, you can ask for lookups on any event for your family - information can be found in a vast range of places - best not ask for lookups in a particular online database, just ask for the information you'd like to find and the lookeruppers will go from there ;).
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks Ambly,
That’s amazing it will keep me busy now. Have been asking my uncles and Aunties for the information you have just given me but they didn’t know where it all fit it. I knew about the swaddles also but that was all. They had no idea what Joseph Wardman fathers name was but thanks to your information I know have more info than I ever expected to get. I really appreciate it.
Thanks.
Cheers
Terry
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Any mention of George bells parents names ?
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Any mention of George bells parents names ?
Hi Terry,
Just has a re-read of the thread to re-gather thoughts...... ;D
Any trace of George BELL himself would have to be first, to have any hope of finding the step back to his parents.
The first issue is the timeline:
In 1881 CENSUS Hannah FOSTER age 15 at home with father.
In 1885 BIRTH Son Fergus William BELL
In 1886 BIRTH Son Tom Guy BELL
In 1888 BIRTH Horace Frank BELL
In 1891 CENSUS, 4th April: Hannah, is listed as a widow, aged 25
In 1893 BIRTH Harvey Foster BELL (maybe born later 1892 Qtr4)
Cheers
AMBLY
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I believe the identity of George BELL is going to be easily found - that is the father of Fergus, Tom and Horace.
In absence of any other evidence as proof, you'd need the Birth Certs of those boys. Partly to determine if the father of them all is George BELL - and the same George BELL - and where they were born?
And the death cert of :
George BELL, age 58 - SEP QTR 1890 Brampton (born abt 1832)
To see who the informant was and to determine if he is the father of the 3 children, and if he is the man in the 1881 Census below:
Recalling that Hannah's first 3 BELL sons Fergus, Tom & Horace were all born Hayton (according to Census 1891). This looks like the right George BELL, in 1881 to match the man who died 1890 - and I believe, the father of Hannah's children:
In 1881 CENSUS: At Edmond Castle Lodge, Hayton
Head: George BELL 49, Widower, General Labourer, General Labourer, b Hayton
Dau: Elizabeth BELL, 24, unm, Domestic Servant, b Hayton
Visitor: John STEEL 60, unm, Joiner, b Wesnal, Cumberland
You can follow this man all the way back to 1841, where he is in Hayton with his parents, John BELL and Elizabeth nee STEEL. The maiden name of Elizabeth is from the GRO Birth of her two youngest children.
And there's the rub. You can probably resolve who George BELL is, BUT:
If he is the man who died mid 1890 - he cannot be the father of Harvey Foster BELL birth registered Mar Qtr 1893 - unless for some reason Harvey's actual birth was no later than around March to June 1891 and he was registered very late in late 1892 to early 1893.
What have you got that mention's George BELL by name? A Birth Cert maybe?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly ,
Thanks so much for your help. The info I have so far is that my father and grandfather were Harvey Foster Bell,my great Grandfather was George Bell who died when he was around 25. His wife Hannah remarried Hugh Nixon. My other great grandfather was Joseph Arundel Wardman ,I know all of this is correct as my Father used to talk about the Nixon’s. My father is no longer alive but his Sister Nancy is and confirmed everything I have so far is correct. She can’t remember her great grandfathers name. She lives in Vancouver. She is in her 80s now and I live in Australia. We were both born in Newcastle upon Tyne.
I am subscribed to heritage. Com and have over 1000 in my tree mainly on my wife’s side going back to Anne Boleyn and Henry the 8 th, but on my side , the Bells there are so many George bells from Carlisle I cant find the right one. I also use wikitree,ancestors.com,this forum and the links you gave me to help we proceed further. My Father used to say that Alexander Graham Bell was in our tree but I cant find a link anywhere to him. Your information has been extremely helpful to me thanks !
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Hi Ambly,
Having reread your info again and time up my sleeve I have had to rethink things and looking at the Timelines. My cousins are certain that George and Hannah are the parents on my Grandfather Harvey Foster but I am not so sure about this. They said he died in 1895 .I have been trying to do more research to see if there are some dates wrong somewhere. Haven’t come up with anything more as yet. Thanks for the info you have given me. I will see if I can find his headstone info on billiongraves.
Thanks
Cheers.
Terry
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Hi Terry,
It's a very intriguing case - I look forward to updates, keep us posted! ;D ;D
It's pretty conclusive that Harvey BELL's mother was definitely Hannah nee FOSTER, who was:
• Remarried to NIXON in 1901 (remarried as Hannah BELL, 1894)
• Presenting as a young widow in 1891, with 3 sons: born 1885, 1886, 1888.
* We can't find a marriage for her to a George BELL between 1881 and 1891.
* There is a widower George BELL in the right area in 1881.
* The widower may be the man who died 1890.
FIRST:
• The birth certs of the 3 sons Fergus, Tom & Horace : to see what they say about their father.
• The death cert of George BELL in 1890, to see where he lived, who was the informant and hopefully, to see if he matches as the father of the 3 boys.
• The Birth cert of Harvey. To see what it says about his father, who is the informant etc.
If Hannah's husband is the man who died 1890, he is not the father of her son born 1893, Harvey - unless for some reason, Harvey's birth was registered very late. If the man who died 1890 is proven unrelated, the search continues but you'd still need the info from those birth certs, I reckon.
So I partly agree - that is, Harvey's mother is identified - but not the father.
Just curious as to who said George BELL died 1895?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi Ambly
I just had an email from my cousin in Canada that said George Bell died 2 months after my Grandfather Harvey Foster was born. Here the info of her email.
I got all my family history from Auntie Vi & Auntie Ruby in Newcastle, when I was there in 1980 for my first visit with my English relatives. I wrote it all down, and still have my notes...
Hannah Foster
She grew up in a farming family with all brothers ( don't know how many brothers ). Her parents died when she was very young. She met George Bell; married him, and had 4 sons. Fergus, Thomas Guy, Horace, and Harvey.
Hannah was widowed at age 26.
She met and married Hugh Nixon, who was 66.
Hugh was a fish merchant and owned shops. His brothers were solicitors, but one brother owned a butcher shop in Brottan, Yorkshire.
Hannah and Hugh had 6 children together.
Hannah died at age 57 in Gateshead.
George Bell was a gardener at Naworth Castle, and Hannah was a table maid.
George died 2 months after Harvey was born.
That's all the history I have...
But it still doesn’t line up with the info you have Ambly.
I really appreciate the info you have given me.
Thanks.
Cheers.
Terry
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Just a closing to this thread.
I have found information that states Hanna Bell had 3 sons to George Bell. He died in 1891. She married Hugh Nixon in 1894. Hugh took on the 4 boys of Hannah’s and Harvey the youngest took on his name as Harvey Foster Nixon. I don’t believe Hugh is the father of Harvey and I don’t believe George to be his father either. So the Father is an unnamed person in between these two men. Maybe that’s why his birth certificate had bell on it as he is named after his mother’s name ! I have had a DNA test done and no where can I find Nixon’s or bells in the results but plenty of fosters and my mother and grandmothers sides !