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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: haymur on Friday 26 April 19 22:42 BST (UK)
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This is a photo of my grandfather Joseph Byrne (on left) from Co Dublin it was taken in 1914-1918 I think in Ireland the corporal beside him is wearing a Victoria Cross we would love to know who he is. I have looked up VC winners from Ireland in WW1 but only some of them have photo's shown. There seems to be 27 Irish born VC winners and a total 167 over various campaign's since it was first given out. I don't know which regiment my grandfather was in. He was wounded but survived the war along with his two brother's in law and died in 1936. Any help would be welcome.
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Hi Haymur and welcome to RootsChat, I can't help with your query but had to ask, did you colour the photo yourself? Is there anything written on the back that might help?
Carol
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It looks like they are photographed in a home situation. In the fields near where one of them (or both) lives. It looks like a typical scene in Ireland. Could they be relatives? Brothers, Cousins? Both had to get to the site of the photograph which indicates some sort of relationship. I say a typical scene. Could it be identified?
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Hi Haymur,a long shot but with Joseph being from Dublin there's a strong possibility the Royal Dublin Fusilier's may have been his Regiment might be worth checking any VC winner's from that regiment as a
starting point,that said looking at the medal roll index there were an awful lot of Joseph Byrne's in the
regiment,there does seem a good few in Ancestry's service record's that have survived sadly I'm not a
full member so no access but I'm sure someone will be along soon that might help any information ie
address,wife etc would be a great help.
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Hi Haymur,a long shot but with Joseph being from Dublin there's a strong possibility the Royal Dublin Fusilier's may have been his Regiment might be worth checking any VC winner's from that regiment as a
starting point,that said looking at the medal roll index there were an awful lot of Joseph Byrne's in the
regiment,there does seem a good few in Ancestry's service record's that have survived sadly I'm not a
full member so no access but I'm sure someone will be along soon that might help any information ie
address,wife etc would be a great help.
It looks like they are photographed in a home situation. In the fields near where one of them (or both) lives. It looks like a typical scene in Ireland. Could they be relatives? Brothers, Cousins? Both had to get to the site of the photograph which indicates some sort of relationship. I say a typical scene. Could it be identified?
It looks like they are photographed in a home situation. In the fields near where one of them (or both) lives. It looks like a typical scene in Ireland. Could they be relatives? Brothers, Cousins? Both had to get to the site of the photograph which indicates some sort of relationship. I say a typical scene. Could it be identified?
My grandfather lived in the Suburbs of Dublin and the man is not a relative/friend from home it may have been taken down near Athlone where I belive a lot of training was done. It looks as he was off duty when it was taken as he is holding a swagger stick
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Does'nt seem to be any VC awarder to the RDF.
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Hi Haymur,a long shot but with Joseph being from Dublin there's a strong possibility the Royal Dublin Fusilier's may have been his Regiment might be worth checking any VC winner's from that regiment as a
starting point,that said looking at the medal roll index there were an awful lot of Joseph Byrne's in the
regiment,there does seem a good few in Ancestry's service record's that have survived sadly I'm not a
full member so no access but I'm sure someone will be along soon that might help any information ie
address,wife etc would be a great help.
My cousin in the UK has gone down that line of inquiry but with no firm results. also checking records for personal can be costly as they say it costs them £750 as they are not digitized
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Hi Haymur and welcome to RootsChat, I can't help with your query but had to ask, did you colour the photo yourself? Is there anything written on the back that might help?
Carol
I tried a repair to remove a fold/rip but I stayed with B/W . My cousin in the UK got this one restored from someone in Northern Ireland. There is nothing on the back
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Each time I look at this photo I think Benbulben.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benbulbin
I'm not convinced though.
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I wonder .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cosgrove
The London Gazette (Supplement). 20 August 1915. p. 8374.
JM
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Does'nt seem to be any VC awarder to the RDF.
Horace Curtis
Robert Downie
James Ockendon
were RDF, although none appear to be the chap in the picture.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_First_World_War_Victoria_Cross_recipients
Hope that link helps in search for
a) Corporal
b) Likely in an Irish Unit
c) who was not Killed in the Action for which the award was made
JM
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Another possible chap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hughes_(VC)
JM
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Another list - shorter one this time, you can sort by the headings, First World War ... only 39 names to check.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_Victoria_Cross_recipients
I will leave it to others, sorry, but I have no further spare moments available today.
JM
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I wonder .... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Cosgrove
The London Gazette (Supplement). 20 August 1915. p. 8374.
JM
Yes I already have looked him up and he is not the man
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Does'nt seem to be any VC awarder to the RDF.
Horace Curtis
Robert Downie
James Ockendon
were RDF, although none appear to be the chap in the picture.
Yes I have already checked them out
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Is it possible to see the original B/w photo to compare with the photos published in newspapers and books of the time. For example I have 13 Volumes of The Great War the Standard History of the All European Conflict by H W Wilson which has thumbprint B/W pics of the majority of VC winners by year of award.
Eddie
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Also, could the two chaps have served in different years and/or different regiments, as on their uniforms, one has upward pointed cheveron and other has downward pointed cheveron?
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The chevron on the left cuff is a Good Conduct Stripe.
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The chevron on the left cuff is a Good Conduct Stripe.
Thanks for clarification.
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Good afternoon,
Another list - shorter one this time, you can sort by the headings, First World War ... only 39 names to check.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_Victoria_Cross_recipients
I will leave it to others, sorry, but I have no further spare moments available today.
JM
A quick check through that list shows omiting those who were posthumous recipients or were awarded in other conflicts, one in 2006. That leaves 25 living recipients. Half of those were officers, warrant officers or ranks above corporal. Some, although Irish, served with NZ or Canadian forces. One can be discounted because he would have ribbons for the QSA & KSA showing, Boer war service.
I will have to go through the list again more thoroughly but only 10/12 possibilities. Although the photo shows a corporal, he may have only been a private when he won the award.
John915
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_First_World_War_Victoria_Cross_recipients
Hope that link helps in search for
a) Corporal
b) Likely in an Irish Unit
c) who was not Killed in the Action for which the award was made
JM
I spent over an hour clicking on all the Irish regiments VC's and non of them seem to match but with many of them having no picture I could have missed him. Thanks
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Good afternoon,
Another list - shorter one this time, you can sort by the headings, First World War ... only 39 names to check.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irish_Victoria_Cross_recipients
I will leave it to others, sorry, but I have no further spare moments available today.
JM
Yes I have been through that list but no picture match
A quick check through that list shows omiting those who were posthumous recipients or were awarded in other conflicts, one in 2006. That leaves 25 living recipients. Half of those were officers, warrant officers or ranks above corporal. Some, although Irish, served with NZ or Canadian forces. One can be discounted because he would have ribbons for the QSA & KSA showing, Boer war service.
I will have to go through the list again more thoroughly but only 10/12 possibilities. Although the photo shows a corporal, he may have only been a private when he won the award.
John915
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Back again,
A more thorough check gives us the following list, ranks as at time of award;
Pte John Caffrey, Yorks and Lancs
Cpl William Cosgrove, Munsters
Pte James Duffy, Roy Irish Fus
Pte Frederick Edwards, Middlesex
Pte Thomas Hughes, Connaughts
Pte William Kennedy, Lancs
Drummer William Kenny, Gordons (age34 QSA KSA)
Pte Martin Moffat, Leinsters
L/Sgt John Moyney Irish Guards
Rifleman Robert Quigg, Roy Irish Regt
Michael John, could be a possibility except clicking on his name only takes you to a site for the
"O'Leary" family and not him.
All others on list are officers etc.
John915
Added, Pity we don't have a date for the photo as that could narrow it down considerably.
Of those listed above the earliest is 1915 the latest 1918.
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You could also ask the folks at https://www.facebook.com/Irish-Winners-Of-The-Victoria-Cross-517945528255306/ if they can match it to any pictures they have.
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Pretty certain the Gordons wore their Kilts with apron over them in the trenches ,and while out of the trenches, so don't think he is a Gordon.