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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hertfordshire Lookup Requests => Hertfordshire => England => Herts Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Fliss on Monday 15 August 05 16:56 BST (UK)
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Would some kind soul look at the 1851 Census for the small village of Shenley?
I'm seeking references to any HOWARD families. Heads of households should include a definite Thomas, possibly a John and maybe a William.
Many thanks for your help!
Fliss :)
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1841 for Shenley HO107/442/3
Thomas Howard 43 painter
Caroline 20
George 15
Thomas 15
Emma 10
James 7
Letitia 5 all born in county
It would appear that Thomas was a widower although relationships are not given.
Also on same census(different entry)
John Howard 20 ag labourer
Ann 25
The enumerator on this census did not put addresses.Ages above 15 were rounded up or down to nearest 5.Regards,Pete 8)
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If you go to the following link,go to Shenley and then search surname Howard you will find some of the Christianings and marriages
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyHertford.htm#PageTitle
Regards,Pete 8)
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Thank you Pete - much appreciated. However... it was the 1851 census and not the 1841 one I was after.
Sorryyyeeeee!
I do appreciate your reply though-thank you!
Fliss :)
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Pete, thanks for 1841, I found it helpful too!
Fliss, I think we're looking for the same people. 1851 as follows:
1701/136/1 f. 27:
Harris's Lane Shenley (2 households along from The Rookery):
Thomas Howard Head Widower 57 Plumber & Glazer Shenley Herts
Mary Ann Howard Daughter U 30 Bucks
Caroline Howard do do 27 Shenley Herts
Thomas Howard Son do 21 Shenley Herts
Letitia S.Howard Daughter do 15 Shenley Herts
Isabella King Niece do 9 Middlesex
James Smith Nephew do 5 Hertfordshire
Emma Palmer Daughter Married 20 Shenley Herts.
f. 49 (v)
Shenley Hill
Ann Howard Head Widow 73 Independent Herts, St. Peters
f. 53 (v)
Rowley Green
William Howard Head Mar 55 Farmer of 20 Acres Herts St. Michels
Susan Do Wife Mar 53 Farmer's Wife Do St Stephens
Caroline Do Daur U 22 At Home / Farmer's Daur Herts Shenley
Harriett Do Do U 17 Do / Do Do Do
also [sorry didn't note page!]
Shenley
William Howard Head Mar 28 Ag Labourer Middx South Mims
Jane Do Wife Mar 25 Herts Shenley.
My interest is in an Isabella Howard, daughter of a Thomas Howard, a painter, from Shenley. She was already working in London by 1841. I think this Isabella King age 9 in 1851 may be her daughter, but I reckon she ought to be granddaughter not niece here, if this is the right Thomas!
Cheers! :)
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If you giv eme all available info regarding 'your' Thomas Howard and daughter Isablla I'll see if i can tie them into my 'Howard' tree anywhere.
So far. I've established that:
Thomas Howard b c1798 Shenley married Ann (surname?)
They had follwoing issue:
Mary Ann
John
Caroline
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Do ignore the last posting! I was in the process of typing it (errors and all) when I must have hit the 'send' button by mistake!
Anyway, the gist of it was:
give me whatever information you have on Isabella Howard and I'll see if I can link her into my Shenley HOWARD tree.
To the best of my knowledge, Thomas didn't have a daughter named Isabella - I only know of:
Mary Ann, John, Caroline, Susannah Ruth, George, Thomas, Eunice, James, Emma and Letitia Sarah.
Cheers
Fliss
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Hi Fliss!
My Isabella Howard m. James King 8-Feb-1842 in St George Hanover Square London, giving her father as Thomas Howard, painter.
On 1871 & 1881 censuses, she gives her place of birth as Shenley Hill, Hertfordshire. Haven't (yet) got 1851. On 1861, it's difficult to read but looks like 'Bedfordshire Bre...water'.
Her age is 22 in 1841 (when she was a servant in her employer's household, along with future hubby James), 44 in 1861, 52 in 1871, 62 in 1881, & 68 at death on 7-May-1886.
Looking for her birth on IGI, I didn't find her in Shenley, but did find Isabelle, daughter of Thomas Howard & Ann, Christened 25-Jan-1818, Great Gaddesden. The transcript of Great Gaddesden records at the Society of Genealogists gives Isabella, b. 25-Dec-1817, daughter of Thomas and Ann, of Hudnall, plumber & glazier. This appears to connect to the Shenley Howards, as Mary Ann Howard, dau of Thomas, was also b. Hudnall, & Thomas of Shenley is a painter (in 1841 & on Isabella's m. cert.) & also a plumber & glazer (1851, & at Isabella's Christening).
I was hoping that Isabella might be an elder sibling of the Shenley Howards, children of Thomas & Ann. Isabella & Mary Ann were both born in Hudnall, & not long apart. However the niece Isabella King in 1851 suggests that my Isabella Howard was a sister of Thomas, not a daughter. But if that's right then Thomas's parents must be ANOTHER set of Thomas and Ann.
Alternatively 'niece' could be a mistake. Perhaps one of Thomas's offspring filled out the form & they put little Isabella down as their niece rather than as Thomas's granddaughter.
Very confusing! All help appreciated! Does this fit into your tree?? :)
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Hello!
This is really interesting! I knew Thomas and Ann had a daughter Mary Ann baptised in Hudnall in 1819 and have meaning to go to Aylesbury Record Office to search their parish registers. Seems I now ought to (unless you live close by).
Last week I visited the R.O. in Hertford and searched the P.R.'s for Shenley - they didn't throw up anything new, although I will happily send you a copy of the Howard tree.
However, getting back to Isabella - it's always good to add more names to a family. We must just substantiate it, mustn't we? There might be more siblings we know nothing about!
As yet, I've not been able to locate the marriage of Thomas Howard to Ann - possibly took place in Hudnall?
I'll endeavour to get my head around the matter of Isabella King - niece - but it sounds like an error.
Mistakes, in those days, were all too common - just to confuse us 150+ years later!
You must wonder my link to the Howard's. It's kinda' remote! (through my husband's line)
Thomas and Ann Howard had a son called John born 1820.
He married Clara Picton.
They had a daughter Maria Clara who married Osborne Pawsey. He was the brother of my husband's great grandfather.
Anyway, what chance of you getting to Aylesbury?
Fliss
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Hi Fliss,
Yes please I'd like to see your tree, & see if it helps sort out this muddle! Isabella Howard was my great great granny, so if I could find the right Thomas he'd be a triple great!
Does Hudnall have it's own parish records? According to http://www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/data/answers/answers-2001/ans-0167-hudnall.htm it was part of the parish of Edelsborough (Bucks). IGI has 3 baptism entries for children of Thomas & Ann in Edelsborough, Thomas (2 Mar 1806), James (7 Jun 1812) & Sarah (22 Jun 1817), but no Mary Ann, & no guarantee that those 3 were in Hudnall. In fact IGI shows various sets of Thomas & Ann in various places, but none of them conclusively 'fit', if you know what I mean!
The Society of Genealogists has marriages up to 1812 for Edelsborough, but not baptisms. I could have a look for Thomas & Ann next time I'm up there.
How do you fit your John born 1820 with the John on the IGI born 1832 in Shenley, son of Thomas & Ann?? I'm a bit suspicious of multiple Thomases & Anns! Or perhaps with that 'niece' entry, that there might be 2 Thomas's in different generations (or more). Also isn't it confusing that there's one Shenley in Hertfordshire & another 2 Shenleys in Bucks! Took me a while to figure that out, grr!
:)
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Are there any Hemel Hempstead connections in the tree?
I too had a Thomas and Ann that potentially (however loosely) may have been connected.
Ron