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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 08:58 BST (UK)

Title: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 08:58 BST (UK)
Help needed to find Ann Elizabeth ? married name Shaw born about 1841 Staffordshire in 1911 census she is in 60 High Street Bucknall Stoke on Trent it says married 52yrs had 12 children 3 died, she is now a widow and  grandsons Robert b. 1895 and Thomas Shaw b. 1898 living with her, help needed to find her husband and children, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 09:17 BST (UK)
I looked for grandson Robert.

1901 2603/19/29
46 High Street Bucknall

William Shaw 60 yrs Banks man b Cheadle, Staffs
Ann E Shaw 70 yrs b Fenton
Robert Shaw 6 yrs
Tom Shaw   3 yrs
Daniel Baker boarder 20 yrs

Banksman was a colliery worker
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 09:29 BST (UK)
Possibly here in 1881 - no children

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27V-D9BS

Maybe wrong people  :-\
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: emeltom on Thursday 25 April 19 09:34 BST (UK)
William Shaw married Ann Brunt Sep 1858 Stoke on Trent 6b 266

Emeltom
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 12:25 BST (UK)
Thank you very much, heywood and elmtom for looking up for me, is there any possiblity as to whom were the parents of the grandchildren were, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 25 April 19 12:35 BST (UK)
Some possible children.

SHAW, SARAH       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1866  S Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 144
 

SHAW, SAMUEL       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1864  J Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 140

SHAW, LUCY       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 126

SHAW, SARAH       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1866  S Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 144
 

SHAW, SARAH       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1871  J Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 173
 

SHAW, JAMES       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 178

SHAW, JOHN       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1877  M Quarter in WOLSTANTON  Volume 06B  Page 165
 

Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 25 April 19 12:41 BST (UK)
Maybe a prenup baby.

SHAW, MATILDA       BRUNT 
GRO Reference: 1857  S Quarter in STOKE=UPON=TRENT  Volume 06B  Page 153
 
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 12:59 BST (UK)
I have tried on and off to find those children with William and Ann but no luck.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: BumbleB on Thursday 25 April 19 13:22 BST (UK)
Only a thought - the marriage (Civil in Stoke) is between William Shaw and Ann Brunt.  1901 and 1911 census entries say that Ann is Ann E and Ann Elizabeth  :-\
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 13:23 BST (UK)
Yes, I have my reservations about that marriage. There are a few William/Ann sightings but seem to fit.
1901 must be them because of the grandchildren.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 25 April 19 13:37 BST (UK)
I have tried on and off to find those children with William and Ann but no luck.

They are the children of Jonathan SHAW and Selina BRUNT.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 13:42 BST (UK)
That’s why they don’t match up :)

Thanks Debra.

Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 13:46 BST (UK)
Hi, thank you Mckha489, heywood, BumbleB  and Dundee, all for looking up for me,  the births  are not William and Ann Elizabeth's children mentioned ? Ann Elizabeth age is still 70 yrs old in 1901 as in 1911 also, gets more confusing,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 14:09 BST (UK)
There is a marriage 1862 James Shaw and Annie E Tipper, Cheadle St Giles.

 1871 2873/66/6

James and Ann Elizabeth are living in Fenton with 4 children.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 14:22 BST (UK)
Hi heywood, thank you, what census year when they are with the with the four children,
jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 14:27 BST (UK)
James and Ann family here in 1881

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27V-XG4N

1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WSDQ-ZZM

But no idea if they are the right family
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 25 April 19 14:27 BST (UK)
Have found a William and Ann in the right area but this means a) that Ann's age latterly is wrong, b) years married 1911 should be 62 (not 52) and c) second name of Elizabeth not used before 1901?

However, they appear to have had 12 children, 3 of whom died, all registered Stoke on Trent:

Annie birth Dec.1849
Thomas birth Dec.1851
Mary birth Dec.1853
Rachel birth Dec.1855
Eliza birth Dec.1857
Ellen birth Sept.1859
William birth Dec.1861
Charlotte birth Jun.1864, died March 1866
Charlotte birth Mar.1866, died 1869
Sarah Jane birth Sept.1867
Dorothy birth Mar.1869, died 1869
Julia birth Jun.1870

All show mmn as Robinson - William Shaw married Ann Robinson 17/6/1849 Stone, Staffordshire and all children shown born Longton, Staffordshire.

Looks like grandson Robert bc.1895 was illegitimate - Robert Machin Shaw birth Mar.1896 Stoke on Trent.

Annette
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 14:33 BST (UK)
Is that the one who is the Publican?
I saw a family earlier but thought he was the wrong occupation  :-\
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 15:04 BST (UK)
Just realised another reason why I doubted that William and Ann, although the number of children fit, is because he died in 1891 and the two grandchildren, Robert and Thomas are living with grandparents, William and Ann in 1901. :-\
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 15:44 BST (UK)
Thank you Annette7,

are those William and Ann Elizabeth Shaw's children listed from 1849 to 1870, where does the Publican come  in to it all, is he Robert and Thomas Shaw's father ? i am getting confused now,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 16:00 BST (UK)
Jaz,
I don’t think it is yet clear who are the right people  :-\
Is your connection to Robert or Thomas? If so, what information do you have?
Heywood
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 16:23 BST (UK)
Hi heywood,

Well i think if it is the right Robert M Shaw,   the connection is with him, but that is vague and sketchy as time as gone by, as no sight of him is recorded unless he changed his name, or i maybe barking up the wrong tree again,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 16:44 BST (UK)
Is yours Robert M or just Robert?

Robert Machin Shaw was registered March 1896

1901 he is 6yrs and 1911 he is 16 yrs which would ‘t quite work out, would it?

As his mmn is Shaw, perhaps his father is Machin. He is shown b Bucknall.
Tom/Tomas (as1911) is born Burton in 1901 and Bucknall in 1911.
I can’t see a birth for him.

I suppose they might not be brothers but cousins  :-\

Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 17:24 BST (UK)
Hi heywood,

Thank you and i think that are probably right it is not match for my Robert M Shaw, so near yet so far, back to the drawing board again, i seem to be forever on the wrong track, right area i was told, just wrong family once again, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 17:54 BST (UK)
It could be - he might have picked up the M again and age might be legible  :)

Where do you have him?
Did he marry?
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 25 April 19 20:19 BST (UK)
Hi heywood,

I tried before on here to find him,  alas no luck, he married in Wales twice, his age given as 23yrs on both marriages even though they were five years apart, father was given as Robert,  i cannot find him after anywhere, his wife then remarried, his father's was given as Robert , there was another family living  close by from the area of Stafford in Wales i was told they were related and cousins, although no relative knows of this Robert Mitchel Shaw or where he went to, when i saw Robert Machin i was in  hope that  he was the one, and  maybe the name was misspelt, given the accents are different, he named one of his sons Thomas, seems i am clutching at straws,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Thursday 25 April 19 22:39 BST (UK)
You could get that birth certificate to see who the parents are, I suppose.

I looked at this thread where you posted re the families in Wales

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=266516.9

That William - married to Annie Elizabeth (Jeffries) was the son of the James and Ann Elizabeth (Tipper) who I posted about earlier.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Friday 26 April 19 07:49 BST (UK)
Have you checked 1939 register?
I see on free check that there is a Robert M Shaw b 1896 in Glamorganshire?

I meant to say earlier that he may have invented a father’s name for his marriage.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Friday 26 April 19 09:26 BST (UK)
Hi heywood,

Yes the info was passed on to me, he is single  living in the Rhondda Valley and  lodging with a  Parson family, no place of his birth shown, his occupation was colliery hewer which also ties in with his two marriages occupation,  i also though he may have made up his fathers name too, as on one  marriage certificate his  fathers is Robert then on the other it is same as his name,
Jaz
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: heywood on Friday 26 April 19 09:33 BST (UK)
I think the birth varies again in 1939 but people aren’t always quite truthful  :)
I can’t find a baptism for Robert Machin but it might be worth following him up with his birth certificate -just to identify the family.
Title: Re: Ann Elizabeth Shaw
Post by: Jaz on Friday 26 April 19 09:45 BST (UK)
I think it is the only one option at the moment, to solve anything,
thank you so much for your help,
Jaz