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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: CRUMLIN on Tuesday 16 April 19 01:01 BST (UK)
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Can some one tell me who lived in 74 Harolds Cross Rd in 1939, It was my Fathers family home about that time Name Morris, please
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See reply 6 here
https://www.familytreeforum.com/showthread.php/118988-Is-there-a-1939-census-for-Ireland
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Ireland was neutral during WW2.
So no need for them to have a 1939 National Register ;D
And, please note - it was NOT a census!
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sorry, for asking the wrong question, should have just said, how do i find out occupants of 74 harold's cross rd
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The Dublin City Electoral Lists 1937-64 have been taken down from this site
http://databases.dublincity.ie/electoral/advanced.php
but are still available at the library - email address in link
If they were over 21 and listed to register at the address you could find out this way
LINK (http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=DU®no=50081059) with picture of house
additional LINK (http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=DU®no=50081059)
Also the Valuations Office of Ireland would have the records of the house's owners/history
www.valoff.ie
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Thoms 1940 - P. Morris
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Ireland was neutral during WW2.
So no need for them to have a 1939 National Register ;D
And, please note - it was NOT a census!
So, I'm afraid I have to ask the obvious here. The 1939 Register was taken owing to rationing during the War. Was there no food rationing in 'neutral' Ireland? :-\ After the War, in 1948, the Register became the basis for the NHS. How was the NHS list compiled in the Republic?
Thx CD
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So, I'm afraid I have to ask the obvious here. The 1939 Register was taken owing to rationing during the War. Was there no food rationing in 'neutral' Ireland? :-\ After the War, in 1948, the Register became the basis for the NHS. How was the NHS list compiled in the Republic?
1939 Register wasn't only to administer rationing. The purpose was to co-ordinate the war effort at home. Information on 1939 Register was used to produce identity cards, (which were supposed to be carried until 1952), issue ration books, administer conscription and direction of labour and to monitor population movement caused by military mobilisation and mass evacuation.
See topic 1939 Register on National Archives website.
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register
The Republic of Ireland didn't set a National Health Service.
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Yes, have the TNA link thank you.
So, there has never been and is still no NHS in the Republic.
Thx
CD
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So, there has never been and is still no NHS in the Republic.
Attempts at health care reorganisation in Ireland 1940s & '50s see:
1947 Health Act
Mother and Child Scheme 1950
Dr. Noel Browne, T.D.
Sean McEntee, T.D. 1943
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The Health Service Executive (HSE) (Irish: Feidhmeannacht na Seirbhíse Sláinte) is responsible for the provision of health and personal social services for everyone living in Ireland, with public funds. https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/find-a-service/eligibility.html
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Was there no food rationing in 'neutral' Ireland? :-\
There was rationing in Ireland until 1950s.
Irish government started a self-sufficiency drive for food production. Area of land under tillage for grain production increased hugely from 1931-1939 and again 1939-1945. Wartime tillage effort was directed more towards food production for people than for livestock. Irish sugar manufacturing industry, founded 1920s, greatly expanded 1930s.
Article "The Political Factor in Agricultural History: Trends in Irish Agriculture 1922-1985" by Desmond Gillmor examines agriculture in Republic and Northern Ireland.
www.bahs.org.uk/AGHR/ARTICLES/37n2a5.pdf
Eire and World War ii (1939-1945) is an outline of the period.
https://www.yourirish.com/history/20th-century/eire-and-world-war-ii
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The Dublin City Electoral Lists 1937-64 have been taken down from this site
http://databases.dublincity.ie/electoral/advanced.php
but are still available at the library - email address in link
If they were over 21 and listed to register at the address you could find out this way
LINK (http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=DU®no=50081059) with picture of house
additional LINK (http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=images&county=DU®no=50081059)
Also the Valuations Office of Ireland would have the records of the house's owners/history
www.valoff.ie
Thank you for info But i live in Huddersfield and cannot visit library, I went on to valueation site but cannot understand it, I got up Thom's directory but cannot find Harolds Cross it only has 12 pages on show, Thank you anyway, for your help.
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Thoms 1940 - P. Morris
Sounds promising, but don't know how to open it, Thank you anyway for trying
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Thank you for info But i live in Huddersfield and cannot visit library, I went on to valueation site but cannot understand it, I got up Thom's directory but cannot find Harolds Cross it only has 12 pages on show, Thank you anyway, for your help.
These pieces of information are only available in the libraries
The register of electors do not give much information other than the address and name of person who can vote (and sometimes reference to another residence or business address)
It does not state relationships if there are more than one person at an address
For valuation records there are sometimes annotations that are helpful but it is hit and miss
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Thoms 1940 - P. Morris
Sounds promising, but don't know how to open it, Thank you anyway for trying
that's all the Thom's 1940 directory listing for 74 Harolds Cross Rd has, but at least it gives an initial. A number of the directories are available on the ask about Ireland website (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=thomsSearch)
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Death of Joseph P MORRIS at 74 Harold's Cross Road in December 1940 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04716/4260197.pdf)
I believe that Angela O'CARROLL the informant was his grand-daughter LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01493/1607134.pdf)
and death notice attached
probate to Margaret MORRIS of same address LINK (http://nai.adlibhosting.com/Details/archive/110593224)
Agnes MORRIS died on Nov 29 1936 - address given as 74 HX Rd LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1936/04795/4289763.pdf)
1901 living at house 11 in Wolseley Street (Merchants Quay, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003717034/)
1911 living at house 130 in Harold's Cross Road (Rathmines & Rathgar West, Dublin) LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000148521/)
130 was the numbering given by the enumerator as far as I am aware
and this may be the same house as 74 later in the 1930s/1940s
Family listed on census are:
Mary - married Myles CARROLL Nov 14 1910 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/10001/5637115.pdf); died Jun 14 1947
Mary CARROLL (nee) MORRIS has a death notice in 1947 that states she is late of 74 HX Rd LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1947/04585/4213210.pdf)
Francis - married Bride BUTLER Aug 13 1917 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09753/5539695.pdf); died Nov 12 1921 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05085/4395560.pdf)
Raphael - died June 08 1909 aged 18 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05462/4528498.pdf)
Margaret - presumed alive at 1941 at time of probate
Charles (twin) b Oct 21 1894 - presumed alive at 1940 given wording of death notice;
married Ellen GRIFFIN nee BYRNE Mar 21 1941 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1941/08820/5189010.pdf)
possibly died 1953 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1953/04473/4173256.pdf) requires further verification
Not listed as she was deceased
Angela (twin) b Oct 21 1894 - LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05875/4665979.pdf) to birth - died Dec 06 1894 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05951/4691138.pdf)
Joseph MORRIS first married Maria Ellen ROURKE on Jun 30 1885 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10868/5968828.pdf)
Ellen MORRIS died Feb 20 1897 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05875/4665979.pdf)
Joseph MORRIS then married Agnes DUNNE on May 02 1898 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10418/5793331.pdf)
In 1961 Miss Margaret MORRIS of 74 HX Rd won a consolation prize in the Dublin Gas Company's Fortnightly competition! reported on the Dublin Evening Mail 10 August 1961
In answer to the original question as to who was in #74
The MORRIS family were definitely in #74 from 1936 towards the end of 1961 and possibly as early as 1911 if the enumerated house #130 was confirmed to be the same building
The family had a connection to Harold's Cross from the 1880s according to the addresses on all the records.
By May 09 1964 a B Fitzmaurice is reported with the address in another newspaper report of another competition, the Alpine Draw's results
Hope that this helps a little more
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Thank you so much for the work you put in to this, I have all of it but not put out as well as you did, you went far beyond the call of duty to help a stranger. I am so bad at answering multi points that i neglected to tell you how happy I was , Yes 130 Harolds Cross was the family house, then they moved to 74 with a Son moving to 116. They indeed lived round the area and took part in st Clares a lot. most of the sons worked as Brewery Clerks,or coopers, Not Guiness as the archivist told me, but lots of Brewerys in the St James gate area, I believe,
my Father was Charles, His father Was Joseph Patrick, I came along in 1942 and spent most of my young Sundays in 74 which was a grand regal house with a well read family that introduced me to the grand Tours of Europe, I alas was remiss in not asking about our family history at the time, It was all lost ie Papers and photos when Angela died down in Kerry somehere. yes thank you for your great work, you made a old man very Happy, xx
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Glad to hear that it was worth while
My OH's family are from the area - some lived at # 98 for a very long time Butler's and Fox's
I also saw the address Shamrock Villas they had relatives there as well
You may well have played with some of them!
Take care
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Just to add
There was another child in this family that died in childhood
Eleanor Clare was born on Feb 06 1889 at 26 South Circular Road LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02486/1922669.pdf)
She died on Apr 28 1894 aged 5 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05968/4696394.pdf)
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thank you so much, young or not she deserves to be on the family tree, i am glad you spotted her, dying of TB at such a early age, quite a few including my Father fell to the dreaded disease. I also am delighted with the name Elenor as i have a suspect ggg grandmother with the same name, this may turn me in that direction. You are a star. xx
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I felt the gap between Francis and Raphael was too long but of course there were many still births unrecorded as well and until relatively recently.
I'm glad she has found her place on the family tree and will be remembered it is a beautiful name Eleanor Clare
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her Mother, Ellen Maria died in in 1897, aged 37, so it seems she was worn out, Joseph remarried soon after to Agnes Dunne who lived till 1936, she did not bear issue, but was much loved by her Step Children,