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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Fitz1 on Wednesday 10 April 19 07:31 BST (UK)

Title: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Wednesday 10 April 19 07:31 BST (UK)
I am trying to trace his father.
He married Ann Rouse 31 Jan 1806 St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey Southwark Surrey.
They had a number of children who were born in Long Lane Bermondsey Surrey.
The Tyler family were builders in and around the Southwark and Bermondsey areas in Surrey (now in London)
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 07:38 BST (UK)
1841 Bermondsey census states that he is not born in the County, rest of family born in County
HO107/1047 bk3 f14 p23
Henry Tyler age 59
Ann 59
Ann 34
Jane Ann 4
Henry 2
Albert 5 months

You have Henrys death as 1846 do you have the certificate
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Wednesday 10 April 19 07:53 BST (UK)
Hello rosie99,
Thanks for your reply. I missed that vital bit of information.
I did have a copy of this Census but it was a very poor copy.
Now I have just found a much clearer and better copy which clearly shows he was not born in that county.

Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:01 BST (UK)
You have Henrys death as 1846 do you have the certificate

I can see a burial in Bermondsey in April 1846 but the GRO index shows this which is probably the same person

Henry TYLER    AGE 20 
1846  March Quarter in ST OLAVE'S UNION, SOUTHWARK 
Volume 04  Page 373

Burial gives age as 25 and of Blue Anchor Road
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:11 BST (UK)
Is this him in 1851  Great Bland Street, Newington
Henry Tyler age   67   occ   Builder   Born Rayleigh, Essex
Ann   Tyler      67   bn    Bermondsey, Surrey
Maria Wells Grand Daughter 15 born Bermondsey, Surrey
Ann   Wells   Grand Daughter   11 born Bermondsey, Surrey
HO107/1566 f89 p39
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785
Post by: Fitz1 on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:18 BST (UK)
The Death I had is incorrect.
I attributed this date to the wrong Henry Tyler.
One of Henry sons (John Henry) was Victualler @ Blue Anchor Public House which was in Blue Anchor Road, Bermondsey Surrey. It is still there today but at 251 Southwark Park Road, Bermondsey SE16.
Thanks for the information
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:20 BST (UK)
Is this him in 1851  Great Bland Street, Newington
Henry Tyler age   67   occ   Builder   Born Rayleigh, Essex

Brilliant work by Rosie.
There is a baptism in Rayleigh, 20 July 1783
Henry, Son of John + Rebekah Tyler

Image of PR here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QTS-LL?i=588&cat=596713
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:22 BST (UK)
1841 Grange Road, Bermondsey
Edward Wells   34   
Maria 29   
Edward 8
Maria 6   
John   2   
Ann   10 months   
HO107/1049/1 f33 p20

Ann WELLS       Mothers maiden surname TYLER 
1840  Sept Quarter
SAINT MARY MAGDALEN BERMONDSEY SURREY 
Volume 04  Page 30
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Wednesday 10 April 19 08:30 BST (UK)
Hello rosie99 and jonw65
Regarding “Is this him in 1851  Great Bland Street, Newington”
These bits of information have been on my ever growing “To Do” list for a long time now. Just not had the time to look into it!
Now I have this from you both, I will now review all off this information you have kindly supplied
Thanks to both of you.
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 10:14 BST (UK)
I don't know if you have access to online newspapers, if not they should be available at your local library. 

South London Press 12 January 1889 - A long article re Walter W Tyler who was standing as a candidate for London County Council. It mentions his grandfather Henry Tyler and a book called 'The Strangers Friend' - a sketch of the life of Henry Tyler, for 60 years a Methodist

Lots of other possible articles on the family
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 10 April 19 10:33 BST (UK)
That book is online ;D
https://archive.org/details/28688262.1864.emory.edu/page/n4
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 10 April 19 10:43 BST (UK)
Among other things, Rosie's amazing find leads us to the burial of John Tyler at Rayleigh in 1784
Image
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QRQ-RKB?i=614&cat=596713

and the marriage of Thomas Unwin and Rebecca Tyler at Rayleigh, 23 May 1785
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QR7-7D6?i=700&cat=596713
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 10 April 19 10:50 BST (UK)
That online book was a great find John, I wish it was my family  :)
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 10 April 19 10:52 BST (UK)
I wish it was my family  :)

I was thinking the same thing Rosie.
It's Fitz's lucky day!
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Thursday 11 April 19 06:17 BST (UK)
Hello rosie99 and jonw65,
Once again thank you to you both for this extremely welcome and very useful information.
Great work
 
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Thursday 11 April 19 06:42 BST (UK)
Hello again rosie99 and jonw65,
Sorry to bother you again
I cannot seem to locate a copy of this census  HO107/1566 f89 p39

Is this him in 1851  Great Bland Street, Newington
Henry Tyler age   67   occ   Builder   Born Rayleigh, Essex
Ann   Tyler      67   bn    Bermondsey, Surrey
Maria Wells Grand Daughter 15 born Bermondsey, Surrey
Ann   Wells   Grand Daughter   11 born Bermondsey, Surrey
HO107/1566 f89 p39

Is there any chance you can send me a link so that i can get a copy?
 ???
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 11 April 19 07:56 BST (UK)
Are you looking on ancestry, where they may have been transcribed as Henry + Ann Fyler and Maria and Ann Wills?
You can also put those references for piece (1566) folio (89) page (39) into the relevant search boxes which will help. Household schedule number is 198.
John
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 11 April 19 07:56 BST (UK)
You should be able to bring the page up on both Ancestry & FindMyPast by selecting the 1851 census search page then just completing
Piece -1566
Folio - 89
Page- 39

Ancestry have him as Henry Fyler

Beat me to it John  ;D
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Thursday 11 April 19 08:11 BST (UK)
Hello rosie99 and jonw65,
I have added a note to the Ancestry record to hopefully assist future researchers.

"This is what other Ancestry members have added to this record. If you have something to add, click on Add your own and tell us what you know.
1 Contribution
Name   
Henry Tyler rather than Henry Fyler
Correction due to an error in transcription.
Submitted by: Les Fitzgerald on 11/04/2019"

Once again thank you to you both
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 11 April 19 08:14 BST (UK)
1851 cleared up, but can we find Henry in 1861?
According to the book, he died 24 December 1863.
There is a registration of a Henry Tyler, Dec 1863, Newington. Age is 84 on the new GRO index. Which would be wrong, strange since they seem to have known exactly when he was born.

Probate record for him, a will.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=tyler&yearOfDeath=1864&page=5#calendar
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Thursday 11 April 19 08:23 BST (UK)
Hello jonw65
Henry was at 32 Great Bland Street Newington Surrey. Looks like he was a House Repainter !
Footnote: Class: RG 9; Piece: 335; Folio: 61; Page: 29.
Short Footnote: Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1861.

Therefore the probate is for the correct person.

I will have a look into "Henry Tyler, Dec 1863, Newington. Age is 84 on the new GRO index"
Again thank you
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 11 April 19 08:27 BST (UK)
Ah, well done, Les.
Henry's is a fascinating story, and much there for you to research.
Good luck!
John
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 06:58 BST (UK)
Hello again rosie99 and jonw65,
I am struggling to find the marriage of Edward Wells to a Maria Tyler.
The Maria Tyler I have in my tree was born 24 Apr 1812 and baptised 10 Aug 1817 at Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey.
She married to Rowland Langthon 24 May 1829 at Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey.
Therefore based on this I am not sure if the Henry Tyler 1783 from Rayleigh Essex is correct.
Maybe the Maria Tyler marriage I have is incorrect!
Do you have any thoughts or comments on this ??
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 April 19 07:43 BST (UK)
May I ask which of Henry's children is your direct line
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 07:51 BST (UK)
It would be Henry Tyler
Born 3 May 1807 Long Lane Bermondsey Surrey
Baptised 31 May 1807 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey
Son of Henry and Ann Tyler Bricklayer Long Lane
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 08:08 BST (UK)
Please note Correction
The Maria Tyler I have in my tree was born 24 Apr 1816 (NOT 1812) and baptised 10 Aug 1817 at Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey.
She was baptised with her sister Mary Ann born June 5 1813
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 08:26 BST (UK)
Depending on how I / you read the baptism document the birth is 24 Apr 1813 unless you read it as 24 Apr 1816 !!
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 08:39 BST (UK)
Sorry did not attach to message for some reason cannot seem to attach document !!
This is the link
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1558/31280_199074-00126?pid=5184370&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Dlmabirths%26h%3D5184370%26ti%3D5538%26indiv%3Dtry%26gss%3Dpt&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true

or

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=lmabirths&h=5184370&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 April 19 09:04 BST (UK)
Thanks  :)

Henry and Ann's daughter Maria's date of birth is 24 April 1812

Maria who married Rowland Langthorn - Online trees have her dying in 1841 but the 1841 death they have is for a 2 year old.
In 1841 she is age 33 and with Rowland and their children H0107/1067 bk 4 f31 p15
In 1851 Rowland was widowed.
.........
Maria who was living with Edward Wells in 1841 was age 29.
In 1851 she is widowed H0107/1566 f104 p7 (Ancestry have transcribed as Mary)
Maria Wells 38
John 12
Henry 8
Benj 4
Susan Wells (Cousin  ??? ) 29

Births Jun qtr 1846 
Wells    Benjamin    (MMN Tyler)   
Newington    4   372

Deaths Dec qtr 1849
Edward Wells AGE 42
Newington    4   279

Edward & Marias son Edward Wells was baptised in May 1833

Sorry got to stop for now  ::)  I have had the red message and see you have posted some more bits, will have to look at those later

Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Friday 12 April 19 09:23 BST (UK)
Maria Langthon - Langthorn wife of Roland was buried 2 Jan 1842. But here birth date was indicated as 1808 !!
Shewas residing in Cobourg Street Rotherhithe Southwark Surrey which is the same address as the 1841 Census.
The Plot thickens!

refer to this link

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1559&h=9518263&tid=11507596&pid=132795635&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UCg26&_phstart=successSource

or

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1559/31280_199120-00280?pid=9518263&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1559%26h%3D9518263%26tid%3D11507596%26pid%3D132795635%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DUCg26%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=11507596&personid=132795635&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UCg26&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 12 April 19 12:11 BST (UK)
Thank you for clarifying Maria's death, GRO index had age 2  ::)

LANGTHON, MARIA    age 2 
GRO Reference 1841  December Quarter in ROTHERHITHE  Volume 04  Page 280
..

Depending on how I / you read the baptism document the birth is 24 Apr 1813 unless you read it as 24 Apr 1816 !!
NC birth 'registration'  has date of birth as 24 April 1812 and it is dated 28 June 1812 so can't be 1813
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nnc/

Please note Correction
The Maria Tyler I have in my tree was born 24 Apr 1816 (NOT 1812) and baptised 10 Aug 1817 at Mary Magdalen Bermondsey Surrey.
She was baptised with her sister Mary Ann born June 5 1813

I suspect that the dates of birth could be the wrong way round

 
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Saturday 13 April 19 06:15 BST (UK)
Thank you rosie99, for your help.
With the information you have sent to me this has also answered several other questions on my Tyler family tree
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 17 April 19 15:43 BST (UK)
Thank you for your PM, I am just posting part of it here as I don't often remember to look at my PM's after reading them initially and others can see what you are stll after

His parents I think are John Tyler and Rebekah (Rebecca) Sumner married 23 May 1785.
I have now spent quite a few hours trying to find who Henry's siblings are.


John & Rebecca married at Rayleigh.  You may need to search SEAX for any siblings of Henry and his baptism.
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Fitz1 on Thursday 18 April 19 06:11 BST (UK)
Thank you once again rosie99
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: WDTDAVIS on Friday 01 October 21 16:04 BST (UK)
Hello! Henry Tyler (1783-1863) is my great x4 grandfather; he's buried at Nunhead Cemetery. He was born over in Rayleigh in Essex. His Father is John Tyler (1754-1784); Rayleigh, Essex born & bred!
Title: Re: Henry Tyler circa 1780 - 1785 to 1846
Post by: Stella Bowling on Sunday 13 February 22 23:43 GMT (UK)
This is my great great grandfather. His son, Henry, married Hannah Steadman at Southwark and my grandmother, Florence Lydia Tyler, was one of his many children.