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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Nikki Lund on Monday 08 April 19 14:26 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am still looking to find some more information regarding Joseph France and who his parents and siblings were(if he had any siblings). I have found his 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871 and 1881 census and have his birth, marriage and death info. The brick wall I'm still hitting is finding out about his pre married life ie parents and siblings etc.
Here is the info I do know -
He was born on 10th Feb 1819 in Manchester (according to some prison records I found about him). In April 1843 he married Elizabeth Preston and was a pattern card maker. He was married in Manchester Cathedral and his father is listed as Richard France who was a joiner. He was living in Cross St, Chortlon Upon Medlock in this period. In 1851 I believe he is living in Chester St, Hulme with his wife Elizabeth, daughter Maria and son Thomas and he is a warehouseman?. In 1861 he is living in Chester St (different number) with wife Elizabeth, son Thomas and daughter Elizabeth and he is a Pawnbroker. In 1871 he is a convict in Millbank Prison (for laundering stolen goods) and still listed as a Pawnbroker. In 1881 he is back living with Elizabeth (his wife), along with son Thomas, and grandaughters Alice and Maria and is listed as a Broker. He died on 28th Oct 1886 and is buried in Southern Cemetery, Manchester.
It's really frustrating me that I cant seem to find out who his parents were. On his marriage parish record he lists his father as Richard France, although this might be incorrect, as his wife Elizabeth Preston listed her father as Giles when in fact her father is called Richard and its her brother who is Giles. It has been suggested that Joseph may have been illegitimate and that someone might be able to do a search of the bastardy records for me involving a female with the surname France, and a male child born on or around 10 Feb 1819 in Manchester. Many many thanks in advance if anyone can help
Nikki :)
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In 1851 they have a visitor called Mary Johnson 29 - have you looked into her in case she is a clue to Josephs' family.
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On his marriage parish record he lists his father as Richard France, although this might be incorrect, as his wife Elizabeth Preston listed her father as Giles when in fact her father is called Richard and its her brother who is Giles.
Who were the marriage witnesses?
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There's a Richard France warehouseman who married in 1814 Manchester - spouse Alice Ormrod widow.
Very tenuous link but you say Joseph had a granddaughter called Alice so you never know.
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On his marriage parish record he lists his father as Richard France, although this might be incorrect, as his wife Elizabeth Preston listed her father as Giles when in fact her father is called Richard and its her brother who is Giles.
Who were the marriage witnesses?
Ann Logan & Giles Preston
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Hi - the witnesses were an Ann Logan (mark of) and Giles Preston. Ann Logan isn't a name I've come across in my tree and I'm assuming that Giles Preston is Elizabeths brother x
I will have to look into Mary Johnson from the census, as haven't done that yet x :)
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Do you have Joseph in 1841?
This might be completely off track
1841 580/ 33/7
Back Brook Street
Josh France 20 yrs Warehouseman
Wm Thornhill 12 yrs
Both born in county
There are a couple of possibilities for William Thornhill - one being William and Hannah as parents.
There is a marriage 1821 at the Cathedral for William Thornhill and Anna France.
You would expect more Thornhill children though :-\
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Hi, yes I have that 1841 census in my head as being my Joseph as it fits so well x I've been trying to figure out why he might have been living with this William Thornhill , but cant join those dots yet x :-\