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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: audrey on Monday 15 August 05 08:55 BST (UK)
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can anyone help me with this
1841 census Botchergate Carlisle
John Sewell age 55 Cotton weaver
Mary age 55
William age 30 b 7/6/1809 carlisle
Sarah age 25 b 1/10/1815 " "
Mary age 25 b 15/9/1816 " "
John age 13 b Preston Lancs cant find this
as you can see big age gap between children Mary and John and all kids born Carlisle apart from John can find no death for the mother Mary[ formally Robinson] and I cant find a second marriage for John cant move further with this as I cant prove that John who is my G.Grandfather was the child of John Sewell and Mary Robinson any suggestions all the names I am doing are proving very difficult
audrey
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Have you looked at Preston parish records to try to find a baptism for John? What about deaths for children between Mary and John? (His mother would only have been 42 when she had him - not late in those days!) Carlisle parish records will have those - presumably the same church as the others were baptised in or they may be Preston too. It seems odd that they were in Preston just for his birth but it is not very far away.
Good luck with the search. He will be there somewhere!
Andrea
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Andrea
thanks for the reply I have found another Child for Mary and John, Margaret Sewell b Carlisle 1807 I checked all the children out at Carlisle records office all born Carlisle and Chris.same church however there was nothing for John
thanks
audrey
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Have you found John and Mary on the 1851 census to get a better idea of their actual ages, since the 1841 census is rounding up or down the age for adults and not giving an exact age (so both could be nearer 60 than 55). There is no reason from the information on the 1841 census where relationships are not given to presume that John is a son of John and Mary. Could he be a grandson of an older child of John and Mary? Have you checked Carlisle and Preston for a John Sewell born to other Sewell parents or parent?
Regards
Valda
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Valda
I did request a lookup of the 1851 Census for Carlisle a while back but got no reply
audrey
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As the 1841 census doesn't give places of birth you are making an assumption that the 1841 census is the correct John (the 1861 census, the earliest I have access to, gives another John Sewell born in Carlisle at about the same time), though I appreciate both Johns are in Botchergate in 1841 and 1861 and the other John wasn't in 1861, you need to fill in the gaps from the 1851 census.
This website gives a list of names and ages on each fiche of the 1851 census index covered by the Cumbria Family History Society.
http://rolyg.members.beeb.net/CensusNames.htm
What does your John Sewell's marriage say about his father and his occupation?
Regards
Valda
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I am confused now! Valda is right and I should have realised that 1841 does not give places of birth. Where did you get the places from that you quoted??
Andrea
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thanks for the reply I am sorry but I am not very good at explaining things so I will try again
I went to Carlisle records office two years ago with the help of the lady there we found the on the 1841 census Botchergate[ East Street ]
John Sewell age 55
Mary Sewell age 55
William age 30
Sarah age 25
Mary age 25
John age 13
she then looked at her files and found
a Marriage for John and Mary Robinson 1807
we then looked for the children found all the the above Chris in Carlisle apart from John as we couldn't find that we then tried looking for a marriage cert for John to Mary Douglas abt 1851-52 but nothing I was adviced to try Dumfries where Mary Douglas was born so last year I went to Dumfries but no Marriage there, I have death certs.for both John age 13 above and his wife Mary and I have berth certs for the oldest son James Sewell born 1853 and the youngest Robert Sewell b 1871 Robert is my grandfather I have John Sewell age 13 above and Mary Douglas on all census from 1861 then living Fodens court some give his place of berth as Preston Lancs, some Carlisle I can cross check Addresses on census with that on certs .I have and it all checks out apart from ages from 1841 all the Sewells were in the Cotton trade and I hope all the above make some sense I am sorry for any confusion because I appear to have several John and Marys in every generation
audrey
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Hi Audrey
Carlisle 1851 is paperbased and in 7 parts - more if you count the outlying districts that form part of the city today.
There is an on-line name index at http://rolyg.members.beeb.net/CensusNames.htm and you can buy the full transcript booklets from http://www.cumbriafhs.com/ - prices are not too bad.
Botchergate was (from memory) in parts 3 & 6. 3 is one the on-line name index and I have a copy of the full transcript for part 6. This lists at 3 Baty's Court:
John Sewell H M 28 Shoe Maker CUL Carlisle
Jane Sewell W M 26 CUL Carlisle
whom I think is the wrong John(?). No sign of John & Mary senior in the part I have but possibles for them in part 3 so may be worth getting hold of a copy to check it out.
However there were a lot of cotton mills in Carlisle at the time (see http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/industry.html ) and the family may have moved around the city so probably worth checking out all the possibles on the name index. Maybe a trip to or contact with the record office would be cheaper!
Sue
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Duplicate message deleted
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sue
thanks once again I have tried everything so I think I will call a halt on my dads side of the family
audrey
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Audrey
I've found a Sewell if its any use, Whitehaven Cemetary
In Memory of John Sewell Died May 22 1924, Aged 84, Also Jane His Beloved Wife Died Oct 1916 aged 58
Grave 53,
Row 15
Headstone No 4
Info in Whitehaven Records Office
Any use?
Andrew
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Andrew
thats very kind of you thank you very much I will keep that on file you never know when I might just want that and cant find it.if its not been cheeky could you keep your eyes open for any Kneens/Neans on your travels I am particularly interested in the death of John Kneen and his wife Margaret they were both born Isle of Man as was there son John Kneen b 1813 but went to live Disstington before 1827 where John was a coal miner all children after John were b Disstington
thank you
audrey
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Audrey
I've accidentally came across more Sewell's, these are buried at Drigg church, Cumbria. Actual headtones
the inscription reads:
JOSEPH SEWELL
DIED AT BARROW OCT 9th 1928 AGE 63 YEARS
AND JANE AT PONSONBY
APRIL 17th 1939 AGE 79
JOHN SON OF ABOVE
AT BARROW MAR 1st 1920
AGED 32
HANNAH DAUGHTER OF ABOVE
DIED AGED 1
If it's no use then I am sorry for wasting your time, it's just that I have a James Sewell (Whitehaven) who is a friend and I notice the name when I see it
I will keep a look out for Kneen
Andrew
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Andrew
I do hope you have some more accidents like that one many thanks for that.I do have a Joseph from Barrow on Furness lanscs and that looks like it might be him , his children have family names too so there is a good chance it fits in some where
audrey
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Audrey
I am pleased I was begining to think I was getting a bit of a pain and I don't mean to be
I am walking round so many graveyards at the moment I am going to buy a big cape and fangs -- or face paint my face white, there again with my experience on Saturday perhaps not
Andrew
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Audrey
I have found some in Egremont graveyard including a war grave
Andrew
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Andrew any thing at all you come across for Sewells in That area is much appreciated believe me, of grandfathers 3 brothers all I have come up with is
William Sewell b 1867 married Annie Kirkbride 1905 in Maryport can[ find no Children] but told there were quite a few
John b 1857 married Catherine Henry in Carlisle [found all his family in Wallsend Northumberland ]
James Sewell b 1854[ nothing confirmed ]
so what ever you come across I am gratefull for it could be just the breakthrough I am looking for just spent all day going through the IGI for any Sewell I can find born Preston I am going to try and get to the family History fair next week see what I can get on CD
thank
audrey
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Hi Valda and others, In 1841 the age was always rounded up, so anyone 16-20 was listed as 20, 21-25 was listed as 25 etc., they were never rounded down. So if the age listed was 55, they were 51-55. Morskaj.
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Actually the instructions to the enumerator in 1841 were to round down ages above 15. However there does seem to be great variation and some records actually give the correct age which is a bonus. I think the answer is to take whatever the age is with a pinch of salt.
As this post is very old I suspect the research may have been done in more detail now.
Andrea
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Actually the instructions to the enumerator in 1841 were to round down ages above 15.
Yes, read here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~somtcen/1841instructions.html