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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: LindeL on Monday 01 April 19 12:47 BST (UK)
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I don't yet know much about this family, but they must have been relatively prominent in the 18th century. I've tracked a few of them in newspapers and other sources, Grand Jury records and so on, , but I don't think there are any burials locally recorded in any of Dorothy Arthur's books. I have been looking for them, because I suspect a connection between Ramages and my ancestors,Taylors of Finvoy. If there is a connection, it might explain a family story which has puzzled me for years. why did a Mrs McLister of Coole, Derrykeighan, help my great grandmother, Matilda Taylor b. 1845, daughter of Robert Taylor of Slaveney, Finvoy, get an education? (those two places are not particularly close; something like maybe 8 or 9miles apart). This Mrs McLister may have been a connection through the Ramages; there was a Mrs McLister in Coole in 1844; she was wife of Alexander McLister of Coole. That Mrs McLister's maiden name was Ramage. The theory about a Ramage Taylor connection comes from a marriage listed in the fascinating Francis Dobbs Report on the Hutchinson Bequest, in which a Mary Ramage married a Robert Taylor. No townland or date but they had a son Alexander Taylor. My earliest definite Taylor ancestor is an Alexander Taylor, who had a son Robert, father of Matilda. There are Finvoy Ramages, back into the mid 18th century at least. But it doesn't seem that many people are researching them, and it's not that common a name. Does anyone know anything about them?
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I am not sure if you have this simple listing of tenants and their land quality. its known to be biased and incomplete. nevertheless it can be useful.. extracts from
1823-1837 Tithes Applotment Books based upon the index work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’s listing for each parish in Northern Ireland, which are quicker to lookup if you know the parish! The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast. the detail of information given is similar to http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/ which covers the 26 counties. look up both spellings
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Bravallin Year: 1825 Ballymoney Antrim
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Gordons Moss Year: 1825 Ballymoney Antrim
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Simicock Year: 1825 Ballymoney Antrim
Ramage, Peggy. Townland: Benvardin Year: 1828 Dunluce Antrim
Ramage, Wm. Townland : Mullans Year: 1834 Finvoy Antrim
Ramage, Aaron Townland: Lisaghmore Year: 1834 Clondermot Derry
Ramage, Wm. Townland: Lisaghmore Year: 1834 Clondermot Derry
Ramage, Isaac Townland: Shanreagh Year: 1826 Tamlaght Finlagan Derry
Ramage, Isaac Townland: Tamlaght Year: 1826 Tamlaght Finlagan Derry
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Bravallin Year: 1825 Ballymoney Derry & Antrim
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Gordons Moss Year: 1825 Ballymoney Derry & Antrim
Ramadge, Wm. Townland: Simicock Year: 1825 Ballymoney Derry & Antrim
Ramage, John Tl: Dromore Yr: 1828 Camus Tyrone
the quick index for griffiths valuation https://www.failteromhat.com/post1845.php contains
Ramage Mary Ballinlea Lower Ballintoy Antrim
Ramadge George Carnaff Derrykeighan Antrim
Ramadge William Townparks Ballymoney Antrim
Ramadge William Bravallen Ballymoney Antrim
more detail and exact location use http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/ say Mary so its waspublished 1861 and she has map ref 2 in the townland to look up. the townland is listed by wikiand shows
Ballinlea Lower borders the following other townlands:
• Ballinlea Upper to the east
• Craigalappan to the north
• Island Macallan to the west
• Kilmahamogue to the south
• Prolusk to the west
that helps when trying to find on askabout Ireland map she has 5 acres inc house office and land her house is valued ar £2 ten shillings which is ell above the average except for john price’s house at £11. Map ref 2 appears to be Black Park on the Straid road.. switch to googles satellite view and you see it the site as well
hoping this helps a bit and others join in
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Thank you Ballyaltigilligan for this very useful gatherup of Ramage information. It is always useful to get somebody else to have a look at material because they may present it differently or come across a new angle. Your list reminded me of something I'd known, that there are Ramages out by the shore round Ballintoy.
I should note that in thinking about this all again I have come to the conclusion that "the Coole" or "Cool-Isle" in our family history and associated also in other sources with the McListers, must be a sub-denomination of somewhere in Finvoy, a name that isn't an official townland. The only "Coole" official townland is in Derrykeighan but that really can't be where Matilda Taylor went for her education. Anyone know such a place in Finvoy?
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NI Place names gives two suggestions for Ballintoy but none for Finvoy
Coolmaghra T Ballintoy Ballintoy Cary Antrim
see http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=15452
Coolnagorr M Ballintoy Ballintoy Cary Antrim
see http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=15533
I did wonder if your place name in Finvoy was on the border of Derry and might be listed under Derry
keep going
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There were Ramages in Dromore, Macosquin Parish which isn't that far from Coole Glebe but maybe not the connection you are looking for.
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I tried for where Matilda Taylor went for her education, but didn’t find the right clues in
a useful index of national schools online at PRONI. is https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Index-school-collections-PRONI.pdf
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Possibly a red herring but I was looking at a Rainey query and found a reference that included last paragraph about a boarding school for girls near a Coolsythe townland. the more I tried to pronounce it and think alternative spelling, the closer I got to the Ramage ref to a Matilda Taylor’s education at "the Coole" or "Cool-Isle"
the ref was to https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Coolsythe%2C_Antrim
Coolsythe (Cúil Saighead) is a townland located in the civil parish of Drummaul in the barony of Toome Upper in County Antrim. Coolsythe is about 2 miles north of the town of Randalstown and is bounded on its west side by the B93 Ahoghill Road.its three parishes south of Finvoy
the source I had not used before says Part of the Irish Roots Project
Welcome to the County Antrim Sub Project
Please visit County Antrim Sub Project for more information about this project.
This category is maintained by the County Antrim Sub Project
there are so far 336 sub categories
a very interesting project reguiring hundreds of further volunteers. see wiki sample above
Drummaul see https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/ANT/Drummaul mentions a George Vaughan funded[prefere endowed?] boarding school inc 24 girls in 1837 in an extract from Lewis's Topographical Dictionary of Ireland, 1837 but doesn’t locate it.
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Rather belatedly I have come across this post about Ramage Families.
I can lay claim to these Ramage names
Ramage, Aaron Townland: Lisaghmore Year: 1834 Clondermot Derry
Ramage, Wm. Townland: Lisaghmore Year: 1834 Clondermot Derry
Ramage, Isaac Townland: Shanreagh Year: 1826 Tamlaght Finlagan Derry
Ramage, Isaac Townland: Tamlaght Year: 1826 Tamlaght Finlagan Derry
Isaac Ramage is my gt gt gt grandfather. I think Aaron & William are related to him.
There is also a connection to Ramages at Ballymoney
I did start to track down how they were all related, all on the list. Some went to the US in the late1700s.
Isaac Ramage had connections to Belfast.
ETA Another gt to Isaac Ramage
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In 1765 there was a Thomas Ramage in a list of tenants in Aghadowey, holding Landagivey jointly with the rev. John Elder and the rev. Robert Higginbotham, a grouping which suggests that he might have been fairly socially well placed One or other of at least two Smith Ramages were slightly later landlords in the Aghadowey area, or maybe more accurately the Garvagh area. Thomas MAY have been related to the Smith Ramages.
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The Ramages I am related to were Presbyterians. A couple of the sons of the family went to Edinburgh to train to be Presbyterian ministers/Elders (?).
I haven't looked at the Smith Ramages or the Lockhart Ramages except to note some first name similarities.
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The Ramages I am related to were Presbyterians. A couple of the sons of the family went to Edinburgh to train to be Presbyterian ministers/Elders (?).
I haven't looked at the Smith Ramages or the Lockhart Ramages except to note some first name similarities.
Elders are elected within a congregation and being well educated wasn't a prerequisite. I can't see any Presbyterian ministers named Ramage in A history of congregations in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland 1610-1982 so perhaps they either didn't continue their studies or didn't have a congregation in Ireland.
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Thank you Aghadowey.
Yes we know they were in Edinburgh but what next do not know. They may have come back and not followed it up They were reputed to be 'fierce Presbyterians' according to my grandmother who died back in 1963.
Her father was Presbyterian and her mother Church of Ireland
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Hi does anyone have any information on the Robert Taylor Mary Ramage marriage that LindeL mentions from the Dobbs report ?
I have a marriage of a John McAllister and Sarah Taylor the 6th daughter of William Taylor at Clough Presbyterian Church. I am wondering if there is a connection between this William Taylor and the Robert Taylor.
Any information on the William Taylor or his other 5 daughters might be helpful.
Wyanga
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In reply to Shanreagh; I have come back to thinking about Ramages again because of the recent post about the Taylor of Cornark and the marriage to McAllister of the Aird. Cornark is near Clough, when I looked up the British Newspapers Index there is an interesting reference to Cornark in 1804. Cornark which is now a subdenomination, following the Ordnance Survey mapping, seems then to have been regarded as a full td, and was owned by a Mrs Ramage of Cloughyole. Cloughyole is in Clondermot, north county Londonderry, so of interest to Shanreagh?. SO how come a widow (presumably) in Clondermot owned land in north Antrim? I think she might have been too old, surely, to be the Sarah Stewart from a county Antrim prominent semi-gentry?? family, though that might explain her inheritance in Antrim if she was an heiress or was selling her dowry estate. Anyway Sarah Stewart married Alexander Ramage in probably the mid 18th century, because Sarah Stewart and Alexander Ramage had a daughter Mary who married Robert Taylor well before 1796; there were adult Taylor children in 1796 and the Stewart Ramage couple had known grandchildren. So, Shanreagh and anyone, was there an Alexander Ramage in Cloughyole, or can I keep on hoping that Robert Taylor and the Ramages are those that I know about in Finvoy? Or does the Stewart- Ramage - Taylor connection have any relevance to why William Taylor was in Cornark, not so very far from Finvoy? Coincidences and questions!
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Alexander Ramage is one of the names on my list. Ramages did own/lease land in Antrim as my direct ancestor isaac was on a voters list from Antrim. All my material is packed away. I have an excel file called Ramage Mentions that misses a couple of generations prior to bewteen about 1796 and 1842.
There are Ramages around Clondermot/Cloghole. I will have a look at the material you have.....great thanks.
My Ramages (men) were known as 'fierce Presbytarians' quote from my grandmother Catherine Buchan Ramage Dahm.
Some Ramages around Coleraine.
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I was inspired to look again at Ramages, and came up with some interesting bits from the Registry of Deeds, which might particularly interest Shanreagh and possibly Wyanga. I was looking for the Mrs Ramage of Cloughyole who was leasing Cornark near Clough in 1804. I don't think I found her but I did find a Jane Ramage, widow, (who conceivably could be but possibly is not the same widow Ramage?) from Petershill in Belfast, widow, who in 1804 leased property to John Halliday of Belfast. What is of interest is that the deed was witnessed by Isaac Ramage Warren, bookseller. In another lease same year Isaac Ramage Warren was granted all her property and debts, then said to be a stationer. Isaac Ramage may not be your direct ancestor, Shanreagh,I don't think you mention his dates. Presumably this Isaac Ramage Warren was actually a son of Mrs Ramage?? who had taken the name Warren for some reason? Maybe Mrs Ramage was Warren and inherited property from her family. Middle names not at all usual at that date, they mean something when you find them. And for Wyanga and me , the name Warren is of interest; both his Taylors and Finvoy Taylors use that as a Chritsian name for some reason or reasons. I can't see how this all ties in, and it is most likely just coincidence. But interesting
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LindeL
You are right about the Warren name being tantalising, it was a fairly common surname in England in the 1800's and no doubt had come to Ireland from there, but its use as a christen name or being added to a name is unusual , Somtimes I think that second names were added and used to avoid confusion in a household. My own Gt Gt Grandmother varied from Mary to Ann in the Baptism of her children . She may have been christened Mary Ann, which was popular in the 1800's and her mother was Mary. She retained the name Ann for the remainder of her life. One of her sons seems to have added the name Corbett in his 30's and we believe that this was from a neighbour who very likely helped him obtain a Dr's degree at a German University and was added as acknowledgement for the assistance.
But you have pointed to the name Warren being used in diverse places such as Dublin and Finvoy as well as Aird in Antrim
Wyanga
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Just in case anyone is collecting Ramages here are some death letters (several before civil registration)-
Sir the remains of my Dear Husband will be removed hence for interment to the Graveyard of Camus on Monday Morning 29th Inst. at 9 O’Clock. Yours Respectfully Sarah Ramage Dromore 26th Jany 1849 [handwritten]
Dromore 15th Nov. 1860. Sir the remains of my dear daughter MARGARET, will be removed from this place for interment in the Grave-yard of Camus on Saturday morning the 17th instant at 9 o’clock a.m. Your attendance is requested by your sorrowing friend, Andrew Ramage
Died at Dromore, Macosquin, on 12th May 1869 MARY the beloved Wife of Mr. Andrew Ramage Aged 66 years. Her remains will be removed for interment in the Camus Burying ground. On Saturday Morning next, 15th inst., precisely at 8 o’clock. Andrew Ramage 12th May 1869
Died at his residence, Dromore, on Monday the 15th March 1875. Andrew Ramage Aged 72 Years. His Remains will be removed for interment in the Camus Burying-Grund on Wednesday Morning the 17th inst. at the hour of 10 o’clock. John Ramage
Died at his residence, Crossgar, on Saturday Evening 2nd February 1878 John Ramage aged 51 years. His remains will be removed for interment in Camus Burying-ground on Monday (to-morrow) 4th February, at 2 o’clock p.m. His Sorrowing Daughter. Jane Ramage
Died at his residence. Dromore on sabbath the 20th May 1888, ANDREW RAMAGE aged 48 years. His remains will be removed for interment in Camus Burying-ground. On Tuesday the 22nd inst., at Three o’clock p.m. Ann Ramage
Camus Burying-ground: Sacred to the memory of Mary Ramage who departed this life 28th April 1826 aged 18 years.
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Thanks Aghadowey. Those Ramage people would have been neighbours of my maternal ancestors in Dromore. Likely they would have attended those funerals