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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Smokey807 on Sunday 31 March 19 14:35 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate some assistance. I'm looking for any information about Sidney William Allen who in the 1880's lived in Tunbridge Wells. He was a jeweller and a partner in the firm of Payne & Allen who had a shop on the High Street. He is stated on the website of Payne Jewellers that he was the brother in law of Thomas Edward Payne who in 1884 took Mr Allen as a partner in the business. When Thomas Payne passed away in 1886 widow Helen took over as he senior partner but in 1889 she dissolved the partnership with Mr Allen. The Courier of August 9,1899 states in part that" Mr SidneyAllen, late of the firm of Payne & Allen is shortly going to leave Tunbridge Wells and we are given to understand that he had purchasd a large jeweller business".
I looked at the family of Thomas Edward Payne for any of his sisters that might have married a Mr Allen but could not find one.
Mr Allen is stated to have been a freemason, a member of the Holmesdale Lodge in Tunbridge Wells but I could not locate a freemason record to confirm this.
In 1888 Mr Allen saved the lives of two boys from drowing in the breakwaters of Hastings, Sussex. They were the sons of Mr Edward Ashley. As a result Mr Allen was awarded a bronze RHS medal and given an engraved watch by a fellow mason(George Farrer) who was also a jeweller and had a shop on the High St.
Any family information for Mr Allen or other events in his life are of interest to me.
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Have you found him (Sidney) on any censuses?
Just for ref.
Marriages September quarter 1876
Thomas Edward Payne St Giles
Helen Elizabeth Stephenson St Giles
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Here in 1893
Sydney William Allen
Initiation Date: 8 May 1893
First Payment Year on Register: 1893
Profession: Jeweller
Lodge: Derwent Lodge Lodge Location: Hastings Lodge Number: 40 Folio Number: 70
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Thank you for your replies. Good find regarding Freemason record. While searching for a tunbridge wells jeweller by the name of George Farrer who presented the freemasons engraved watch of Mr Allen I found Mr Farrer in the Holmedale Lodge records as well as an entry for Sidney William Allan initiated in that lodge December 15,1886 which gave his age as 26 making him born in 1860. I hope that clue helps..
I see that his foremane for the Hastings freemasons record was given as "Sydney" rather than "Sidney" in other records so that no doubt poses some problems in tracing him.
No I did not find Sidney William Allen or Sidney W. Allen in any census records. Perhaps he appears at times as Sydney rather than Sidney.
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Is there a birth registration for Sidney to start from his very beginnings?
Maybe this one
Mar 1861 Headington Union
Allen - Sydney William
Mothers maiden name - Steane
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Possible 1861 Oxford
William Allen 37 Baptist minister born Kent
Sarah E 27 born Oxford
Arthur W 6 born Scotland
Sydney W 2 months born Oxford
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In 1881 Sydney is a boarder age 20 jewellers assistant living 37 High St Tunbridge Wells
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Could this be his son?
From United Grand Lodge of England Freemason Membership Registers, 1751-1921
Sydney Allen Initiation Age: 32 (born about 1889)
Initiation Date: 11 Jan 1921 First Payment Year on Register: 1921
Profession: Jeweller Lodge: Panmure Lodge
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1891 census in Hastings St Michael
Sydney W Allen 30 jeweller b Oxford
Margaret Allen 32 wife b Banbury
RG12; Piece: 764; Folio: 19; Page: 31
Sydney W Allen m Margaret Payne 1 1886 Wallingford, Berks 2c 487
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Think they have got his marital status wrong:
in 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nlc/
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Thomas in 1881
At 124 High St Guildford
Piece: 777 Folio: 83
Thos. Stephenson 61
Elizabeth Stephenson 64
Waltr. Stephenson 30
George Stephenson 25
Ada Stephenson 23
Edith Stephenson 21
Helen Payne 27
Thos. Payne 32 jeweller married son-in-law Banbury, Oxfordshire
Nora Payne 3 grdau
Herbert Payne grnson
Emily Edgington 20
Ellen Knight 22
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Thomas and Margaret, siblings in same census
1871
At Wallingford Berkshire
Piece: 1274 Folio: 81
William Payne 53
Mary Payne 42
Thomas E Payne 22 jeweller's assistant Banbury
Margarette Payne 12 Banbury
Bertha Payne 10
Harriet Payne 5
Edith O Payne 8
Ernest O Payne 2
Kester Horder 20
Sarah Saunders 19
Martha Speard 20
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West Sussex Gazette 21 July 1910
Sydney William Allen , formerly a well known jeweller of Hastings and Bexhill , was charged at Bexhill on Saturday with stealing two clarinets from the Kursaal. Prisoner entered the police station to give information respecting the missing instruments and was confronted with a warrant for obtaining goods by fraud from the Duchess of Sutherland's Cripple Guild New Bond Street ( another charge.)Instruments were recovered from the Wellington Hotel , Hastings. Prisoner committed for Trial ...
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A further case appears in the Dundee Courier 22 Aug 1912 , where Sydney is described as an accountant , formerly a well known jeweller at Hastings , but drink had been his ruin. He was sentenced to 9 months hard labour for stealing clothes from a hotel.
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What great work- thats my man!
I now have all I need for him up to and including the 1881 census but can anyone find census records 1891 onwards for him. I dont have access to family search website.
Regarding his 1886 marriage at Wallingford Berkshire to Margaret Payne, the sister of his business partner Thomas Edward Payne -given in 1871 census as "Magarette Payne" can you find out what her real forename is from birth/baptism records please and perhaps more detailed date of birth or baptism.
Any census record for Margaret/Margarette for 1881?
Any children born to Sydney and Margaret?
Death/probate record for Sydney and Margaret?
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What great work- thats my man!
I now have all I need for him up to and including the 1881 census but can anyone find census records 1891 onwards for him. I dont have access to family search website.
Regarding his 1886 marriage at Wallingford Berkshire to Margaret Payne, the sister of his business partner Thomas Edward Payne -given in 1871 census as "Magarette Payne" can you find out what her real forename is from birth/baptism records please and perhaps more detailed date of birth or baptism.
Any census record for Margaret/Margarette for 1881?
Any children born to Sydney and Margaret?
Death/probate record for Sydney and Margaret?
See my reply no 8 for 1891 census and chempat's no 9 for 1911. Considering the newspaper reports it appears that he entered a difficult period in his life becaues of drin k and theft convictions.
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'I dont have access to family search website.'
You just need to register (free) to get access.
'Any children born to Sydney and Margaret?'
Look for births with their surnames on the GRO site:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
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Wife Margaret in 1911 on IGI
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nlh/
Isabel Harriet Payne Head Female 45 Wallingford, Berkshire
Margaret Allen Sister Female 52 Banbury, Oxfordshire
Find the image on paying site to see if children
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Likely daughter as Hastings?
Margery Pearl Allen mmn Payne
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in Hastings
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This looks like Sydney's death :
Sydney W Payne Allen b 1861 1 1920 Battle, Sussex 2b 79
Newspaper reports describe him as the son of the late Rev William Allen of Oxford.
Corrected as per my later post .
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'Sydney W Payne b 1861 1 1920 Battle, Sussex 2b 79
Newspaper reports describe him as the son of the late Rev William Allen of Oxford.'
How can Sydney Payne be the son of William Allen?
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'can you find out what her real forename is from birth/baptism records please and perhaps more detailed date of birth or baptism. '
Margaret from freeBmd
Births SeptemBer quarter 1858
Margaret Payne Banbury
(mmn Ballard ) from GRO.
Marriages December quarter 1855
Amelia Caroline Ballard Camberwell
Frederick William Payne Camberwell
Payne marries again
Marriages June quarter 1862
Mary Orsmond Islington
William Payne Islington
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'Sydney W Payne b 1861 1 1920 Battle, Sussex 2b 79
Newspaper reports describe him as the son of the late Rev William Allen of Oxford.'
How can Sydney Payne be the son of William Allen?
Of course he can't ;D A senior moment I'm afraid - I should have typed Allen , not Payne ! I will correct my post.
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Thank you all for your great assistance.Quite an interesting life for Sydney. Its a shame he turned to drink and crime near the end of his life. I noted that his wife Margaret was not living with him at the time of the 1901 and 1911 census although she still gave "married" as her marital status. Also noted from her 1911 census that she reported having two children but only one still living in 1911.
To complete the story about Sydney it would have been helpful to have found the 1901 and 1911 census for him. I tied to find them but so far no luck.
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'To complete the story about Sydney it would have been helpful to have found the 1901 and 1911 census for him'
I gave the link to 1911 - Sydney Allen, 1861, Oxford.
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Thanks Chempat - I now have the 1911 census for him
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He could be under William in 1901.