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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: Essnell on Monday 18 March 19 09:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Before I ask, thanks for any replies in advance.
I would like to know where a person who died in 1890, in Clogheen, Tipperary might have been buried.
I have checked Shanranhan Graveyard on Historical Graves site and they are not on their list .
Where else might I search.
Thanks Essnell
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,
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You could try this search form to for Clonmel area, just incase too
http://www.clonmelgraveyards.com/startsearch.php
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What was their religious denomination?
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Hi ,
Thankyou all for the replies. the map is really helpful thanks Hallmark.
I have tried the links from whiteout7 but so far no luck.
They would have been Church of England I think. Not R.C.
I looked in the Shanrahan Historical Graveyard and they are not listed, but there are many graves photographed with no records so... one might be who I am after.
Is there a more recent grave yard than this particular one in this area?
I also looked at all three places on the Clonmel link and again no listing.
The surname is Alexander. Not too many of these in this area. I shall keep looking.
Thanks again, Essnell.
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Deceased SurnameAlexander
Deceased ForenameThomas
Primary Beneficiary/ExecutorJane Alexander
Date of Death2 Oct 1896
County of DeathTipperary
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00270.pdf
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Essnell
Henry was a Forester when he died living in Shanbally . He may not have originally been from the area . Do you know where he was from
P J
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HI ,
Yes . that is correct Merrick7. I do know where he is from and who he married and when and where and all his 11 children and when he died. All that does not need re looking for. I even know whom he was Forester for.
It is Henry's burial place I am looking for. He died on the 15th December 1890.
Hallmark - Not too sure about Jane and Thomas. I have looked at the will. I shall need to do a bit of thinking and checking.there are so many links within this line. Something else to do. It looks like Thomas may have married a "Jane .....".
It is just this burial I would like to know about - to complete this line.
I will keep looking and let you know if I get anything.
thanks for this the info on the will is new so really great there. I shall get that. It is one thing I tend to neglect.
Be back thankyou
Essnell
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C of I??
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.2767863,-7.9949847,3a,75y,64.54h,83.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_TrNk-ekbYrSjjk8N_PUTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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Doesn't seem to be a Cemetery there.....
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Shanrahan is only one I see....
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Where was he born
P J
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Hello Hallmark,
I believe that was what it was in Ireland. C of I
Just followed the link - what a lovely church. Do you know it's name? Is it St Mary's?
I shall look it up on google too.
Thankyou for this
cheers Essnell
Addit: Just spotted the other images above. Shanrahan Graveyard. It looks like there is a very old section and a newish part with graves close together.
Was this a public grave yard and is it still used?
with the other of Church Lane- I agree - no grave yard there. It does not appear to have the space
but the images are fabulous to have. These will go into the files. I need to look somethig up this end
Be back,
Regards Essnell
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Hello Everyone,
I have tried to see if the persons on the will are connected to my person of interest.
At this point I do not believe so. :-\
There are a few Thomas Alexander as well as Jane Alexander. Both names occur in the families of siblings and in their children so it is a bit of a hunt. I shall try to find Thomas and Jane as a couple .
I will now look at Thomas as in Ireland and see what I find from there. :)
TThanks for all your efforts, much appreciated.
Regards Essnell
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The couple appear to be Thomas Alexander and Jane McLean/McLane nee Evans
married 1866 Donaghmore
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01njw/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01njx/
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Ballingarry/Ballylina_West/1691284/
the son appears to be her son in law George Powell
her daughter in law appears to be her daughter Mary Jane
grandson Caleb is a Powell
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01973/1760655.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10408/5790102.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Ballingarry/Ballylina_West/836784/
edited to add
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG86-HRF
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGZS-NTL
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There is a Cemetery at edge of village....
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another..
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5873999,-7.5594969,3a,60y,338.81h,90t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1smHXGr1ksXwEMtS6ATzGEGw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!9m2!1b1!2i47
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Henry's wife Rose Waterman ? seems to have gone to England where she stayed with a daughter Sarah Adey then appears to have come back and stayed in Rosscommon
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Roscommon/Roscommon_Rural/Carrowroe/783501/
and died 1919 in Shanbally
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05142/4416819.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Burncourt/Garrandillon/1709243/
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Hi Dathai, Hi Hallmark,
Dathai, I would say that these two are nor related to my quarry. I have not seen any Powell surnames etc so it probably rules those two out as candidates.
thanks for looking though great searching and all helpful. I shall keep this just in case somewhere it fits in.
Re Rose i suspected she had moved but it did not fit with the 1919 death. As I have not done much with the children's lines I had no really good info there so thankyou.
I am getting suspect that both may be buried together, they were married for a long time.
thanks for the links those are really helpful
Hallmark, these are really small but they may have been private ones. How does one check on these?
Miracle hunting Hallmark Thank you. I shall keep these.
Essnell
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Email and ask the local Funeral Director?? ;D
https://rip.ie/death-notice/john-carey-clogheen-tipperary/255729
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Hi Hallmark,
I have emailed the J. Corbett and Son . See what happens there.
This one is not on the Tipperary list so I suspect he does this as aside line. He is on google as a Hardware Store owner in Main Street, Clogheen. interesting.
Cheers Essnell
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Another death to look out for as you may pick up something in a newspaper
John Fraser married Emily Alexander dtr of Henry a forester 1887
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10805/5940793.pdf
they appear to have been living with Emily's parents
as the informant on their 3 childrens births was Rose Alexander of Shanbally
Rose 1890 at Shanbally
Alfred aka Kenneth 1895
Helen Edith 1893
Helen Edith appears to have married an Albert Ruffle in Islington in 1925
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZR-7DXX
Helen Ruffle was the informant on her fathers death in 1934 at Shanbally
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1934/04837/4304637.pdf
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You beat me to it Dathai . I was about to do that looking but it got way too late in the night so gave up till today. Morning here now in OZ.
so thankyou again for time and effort. this is all very good info for me. the constant links back to shanbally are very good. It is helping tie in the links.
so thankyou. I shall follow all the info you have found.
I have to go take care of some things for a few hours so will be back in a while.
this is just so very good. thanks all again.
Hallmark, so far nothing from John Corbett & Sons. Just thinking perhaps the church there in Chapel Lane might have info on local funeral directors in 1890. I shall try that .
Regards
and thanks
Essnell
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Hallmark, so far nothing from John Corbett & Sons. Just thinking perhaps the church there in Chapel Lane might have info on local funeral directors in 1890. I shall try that .
Regards
and thanks
Essnell
Often the Funeral Directors were the only ones that kept records as to Who bought a grave. When. Number of burials allowed, number of burials within the plot, Who, When, number of "Vacancies" within plot.....
You shoud see the book of the Local one here....know names, dates and where everyone is buried
Same too with another I know....has Ledgers/Plans names, dates of everythig that happened in local cemeteries that put Church records to shame
Would not surprise me in the least if his g.father was undertaker
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John Fraser,for 54 yrs valued friend and head gardiner at Shanbally Castle
https://historicgraves.com/shanrahan/ts-snrn-0239/grave
this lady appears to have been one of the witnesses at John and Emily's wedding 1887
https://historicgraves.com/shanrahan/ts-snrn-0241/grave
a very wealthy lady
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/wr/details.jsp?id=IRE/ORIG/WILL/REG/18954
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On the building returns 1901 Lady Butler is the land owner of John Fraser's house
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003913087/
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=3873
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Hi Dathai,
I hardly know what to say. It is almost unbelievable. what a revelation
Yet it does not surprise me i have been trying to get to people who were actually at Shanbally Castle around this period.
I have recently found a whols section of a book about the Castle aand it's owners. Viscount Lismore.
And most were pretty wealthy Shanbally Castle Estate covered thousands of acres. there are somewhere some of the Estate records but when it was sold many were bunrt on the spot . Not passed to the new owners.
any way that is another story.
More to be done on this leg. I must go digest all this before doing anything else.
It is almost 10.00pm here and i doubt I will sleep very much tonight.
have followed up on the other info, printed off and saved. the file for tins part is just about bursting out of the folder. Now i just cannot thank you all enough for all of this.
I believe Lady butler is connected to the Viscount - cannot recall just how so will retrace that info.
Cheers ;D ;D if there was a hug one I'd add that too.
Essnell
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Hi Hallmark,
I would say that the undertakers collected a lot more relevant info on people than churches. it seems more personal.
My hubby was cremated and we sprinkled the ashes in the ocean. When that was done I gave that info to the Crematorium /Cemetery and they have added that to their records.
it needs doing as otherwise no one would ever find out ...like i am trying to at present with Dear Henry.
Still nothing but they may have to go look so it might be a while. Keep hoping.
Essnell
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I still await an answer
Cork Archives were given a lot of Lismore papers https://www.iar.ie/Archive.shtml?IE%20CCCA/U068
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Have you tried Tipperary county council.
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Helen Edith Ruffle appears to have died 1979 in Barnet,Middlesex
Date of birth exact
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVZ3-3B82
Number 500
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02290/1859355.pdf
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Hi merric7
Sorry not to have replied. Think things got a bit off track and I missed doing so.
Henry was born in Dorset but, as I said, I know that info and his family info up to his death. So it does not need researching here. I did not however research his children but that work was for later.
Dathai has tracked somehow one of his 11 children and that info is all very helpful to me in otherways and may eventually lead to Henry's burial place.
Any way I hope knowing that helps you.
Essnell
Addit: Thanks for the link to the Irish Archive Repository. I will check that out .
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Hi maryderry,
Still catching up on this thread.
No I have not tried the council for any record. I think it is the only place I have not asked.
so yes a good idea.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Essnell
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http://tipperarystudies.ie/digitisation-project/gravestone-inscriptions/ has a pile of Cemeteries transcribed
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Hi Hallmark,
that is interesting. a bit different to everything else. will investigate.
Something for fun.... What does the Irish boys name AIN mean? best I can get is either mighty or lord. No looking just ones' thoughts.
Essnell
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Not a clue! ;D
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Richard Bannister a gardiner at Castle Grace married Eliza Ellen Alexander
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10752/5921204.pdf
they appear to have had two children Rose 1890 and John 1891 and then went to Sea Road, Galway where son Richard was born 1898
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02058/1787068.pdf
then to England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSD2-MP5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71P-4ZR
son John Henry may have taken part in WW1
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louisa Alexander
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Arabela/Cloghermore/1429215/
married Thomas Ruddock a station sergeant R I C
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10294/5747040.pdf
Last child born Dublin
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nkf/
just cant find them after this ?
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Louisa died from T B at Harolds Cross,Dublin in 1910
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05429/4517705.pdf
edited to add that should be Harold Road
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Harold_Road/
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Hi Dathai,
You need a medal. i have been chasing up all these various links and have found much on where to look etc. I have downloaded most where possible or saved.
Just now finished collating all this into a proper family tree - on paper. It is all fitting together nicely.
It is just such a good thing finding all this.
Thanks for all you have done
Essnell
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Thomas Ruddock now Head Constable ,Portlaw,Waterford remarried in Wexford in 1916
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09781/5550637.pdf
i was wondering what happened his children so i had a look in that neck of the woods and found these 3 children staying with their gran
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Bannow/Grange/691596/
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So where would a person who died in 1890, in Clogheen, Tipperary have been buried??
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi maryderry,
I have worked through Tipperary Co.Co. to find the graveyard caretaker for Shanrahan. Nearest on their list.
There is a name Thomas Costello and he is Clogheen. Not in phone book white pages so have contacted council for help. See what that brings up possibly in a day or so next week.
Essnell
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Hi Hallmark,
Seems to be quite a few but Henry has not shown up. thinking out side of the square. rose went back to england for a bit. Maybe just maybe ... england. i know they did the opposite on another famliy leg.
the wife died in Ireland and was buried there Hubby goes back to England died there but gets buried in Ireland with the wife!! that takes money! and from what I can see they had enough.
Esnell
No ! that does not make sense. His wife returned to Ireland and died there too. BUT. Is family history always sensible? LM
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No Wills?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nkg/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nkh/
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Now that I know that he was born in England , as we say here , they always went back to their own to be buried . But in this case I would believe he was buried locally . A few of us have recorded over 60 graveyards in south Tipperary which we will soon be giving to Tipp Studies to upload to their site . Henry is not on our database but I have a hunch he would be buried in Castle grace which is a mile N E of Clogheen . I will be passing Castle grace in a few days and see if he is there
P J
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PJ
Do you kow name of cemetery in Reply #15 at Ballingarry?
Have tried to find it on Google st view... no luck.
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https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0171721,-8.0259721,3a,75y,97.11h,76.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swAE2ksLErti9y_pdWy_xwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Ballingarry graveyard which is online at Tipp Studies.This Ballingarry is in the Barony of Lower Ormond in North Tipperary
Reply No.16 is street view of Ballingarry Lower in Ballingarry , Barony of Slievardagh South Tipperary
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https://www.google.com/maps/@53.0171721,-8.0259721,3a,75y,97.11h,76.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swAE2ksLErti9y_pdWy_xwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Ballingarry graveyard which is online at Tipp Studies.This Ballingarry is in the Barony of Lower Ormond in North Tipperary
Reply No.16 is street view of Ballingarry Lower in Ballingarry , Barony of Slievardagh South Tipperary
Ahhh....was wondering why I could not find it, thanks!
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Hi Hallmark,
Re the will issue. The first link had nothing.
within the second there is a confusing list of names persons died and heirs etc.
Now Henry died 1890. I have found one which appears to be his from 1877 and this is 3 pages long. at the end of that is a codcill attached to an earlier will that was made in 1874. and a second codcill attached later to the same.
the address in 1877 is Forkhill, Amagah. However I would say that was where he was at the time.
the list of people attached to that will is amazing in whom and how many are mentioned.
The probate info which shows the whole will as transcribed is dated 1877 . So given that Henry had in 1881 called Frederick, this is not his will.
I do need to read this thoroughly first the hand writing is small and meticulous.
On this second list there is no probate for a Henry Alexander dying 1890. Maybe he did not have a will.
I am totally mystified. ???
Essnell
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hi
Edit for last post "Henry had "a son" in 1881 called Frederick.
Essnell
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just to clear up something on 1911 census for Wexford
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Bannow/Grange/691596/
The two girls are Thomas and Louisa's children Winifred the other daughter died Dublin 1907
George was born in Dublin 1903 to Octavious Ruddock and Alice Jeffers
4 born 3 alive only 2 at home
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Rialto_Buildings/65957/
Octavious born Wexford the Grange 1877
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5LW-2FX
Thomas's birth is registered in Shillelagh born Killenure December 1869 reg 1870
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03362/2233010.pdf
most likely census return 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000493056/
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Hi Merrick7,
I have seen the Castle Grace mentioned in some thing else related to this .
It would be really good of you to visit there . If you find Henry..... fantastic. if not - more hunting to be done.
Thanks for this it is really kind of you.
Essnell
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Hi Hallmark,
I have done the backtracking I needed. Henry was definitely alive up until the 15 the December 1890.
His death was registered in the January of 1891. Place of death Shanbally. Rose Alexander was the informant.
i hope it comes to light eventually.... just waiting on what Castle Grace reveals.
Cheers and thanks again Essnell
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hi i have just seen your search there are two other cemetries betweenCahir and Clogheen spesifilcaly Kilcomon protestant cemetary and a Quaker burial in Garnavilla ihope this helps
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Essnell
Went to Clogheen today and alas no luck . There are no graves only one Tomb in the Church of Ireland grounds there . No headstone for him in Castlegrace and I also went up to Kilcommon Church of Ireland graveyard which is a mile S.W of Cahir which Graham mentioned as I thought I might be lucky but no sign . I also had a look around Shanrahan where some workers on the Shanbally estate are buried beside the Lismore Mausoleum but no sign either . I do agree there are a few headstones on the website which I could read and are not recorded so it will take further investigation . We have Garnavilla recorded and he is not there . I also spoke to the local historian who was very knowledgeable and he was previously in contact with Alexander descendants who came from Canada . Does that ring a bell
P J
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Hello Merrick7,
You have been really busy and gone to a lot of trouble on this, so thank you very very much and much appreciated..
Speaking to the local historian and his comments are almost prophetic. It rings a huge bell!
In the last few days in my delving I came across someone with my Henry in their tree on ancestry .
It looked very familiar as i have done quite a bit of sideways research on marriage partners.
I eventually after much debating decided to contact the owner asking if Heny's burial was known to them. answer no. but they then asked if I knew anything about the father of this persons grandmother. I have been looking.
I have discovered more about Henry's family for myself and yes one of his daughters.... one darthi did not research [I think] went to Canada. I found this out by researching the persons grandmother.
this in itself has created another huge question for me. I have started a thread on a topic about this as I believe the grandmother was a foster child.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=810850.new#new
As I said there on posting info about all this is causing me concern.
Re Henry: I am puzzled as to why he is not in Shanrahan Historic Graveyard. Henry and his relatives worked for Viscount Lismore in various positions.
Some are buried in this Historic Graveyard.
Oh dear this is getting more and more complicated
Essnell
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Hi Merrick7,
just wondering if you could tell me where to contact the Local Historian you spoke to. ?
Essnell PM me if you wish.
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Hi Graeme,
Thankyou for the info.
Merrick7 has been and had a look ...unfortunately not there either place.
Essnell
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try Tubrid Cemetery there is a list of interments on a site just type Tubrid some headstones over the years have become unreadable
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Hi Graeme,
Thankyou again for the suggestion.
I tried Tubrid and Tubrid Graveyard. All the links went back to "find-a-grave" and Henry is not on their DB. His son is also not there.
I have tried today to get to any Church of Ireland parish registers via the Anglican links to the Church of Ireland. Somewhat of a mystery chase there as well.
On their site they quote that a large number of parish records were destroyed in the 1922 Dublin Reg Office fire during the civil war. It is said several times. There were records form 500 parishes involved most totally gone. So sad. They actually have a list of those parishes that there are and or they have records for. Unfortunately not any of use to this search.
I was hoping that there might be a link from this to others but seems like a dead end --- in ashes in Dublin.
Thanks any way, much appreciate your interest.
Essnell
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HI ,
Yes . that is correct Merrick7. I do know where he is from and who he married and when and where and all his 11 children and when he died. All that does not need re looking for. I even know whom he was Forester for.
It is Henry's burial place I am looking for. He died on the 15th December 1890.
Essnell
So....where was he from??
He could, very easily, be "brought home" for Burial!
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another very good aource of information is the archive dept. Tipperary county library Thurles co Tipperary a lady called mary is both very knowledgeable and extremely helpful
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Hi Hallmark,
To be truthful i have my doubtson them bringing him home. Hi wife returned to England for a while.
at least by 1901 where she is with a daughter but by 1911 she is back in Ireland. She died there in 1919. these people worked and lived there for over 30 yrs. i would think it was their home.
However he was from Dorset. it is interesting that no burial comes up on Family search for him.
Also I have come across others who are looking for this same info and are facing the same brick wall.
I am seriously beginning to believe that all burial records for this part of Ireland also got lost in the 1922 attack on the Reg Office in Dublin. I as well as fire. would have thought some went through water damage. The water does as much or more damage than the flames being put out - I know from experience.
I thought that the Churches would have kept their records for burials or at least a copy of whom was in their graveyards.
Henry worked for the O'Callaghans, the owners of Shanbally Castle, for 30 yrs.
Now also Rose Alexander died in Shanbally, Clogheen in 1919 surely she should be somewhere there.
Rambling a bit there but it just seems very strange .
Thanks for caring and for helpful ideas
I shall double check England.
Essnell
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Hi Graeme,
Yes the Tipperary Library is very good.
I have used them before and was told Tipperary stuff is very limited as per usual.
I shall ask again. Mary might just have an idea.
Thankyou again,
Addit: I have redone searches for Henry on both FindMyPast and FS all I get is the death information in both cases.
Essnell
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hi essnell have you looked at the grave of john alexander died 1935 and is burried in balingarry perhaps a family plot with earlier unmarked interments
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Hi Graeme,
No i have not looked that far forward. thought rose in 1919 would have been Ok.
What i have been thinking is that I might try to see if I can get this sort of info for any of his children and work back again from there.
thanks again let you know what transpires.
Essnell :)
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Don't forget to try to find out who the local gravedigger is, they often have better records than anyone!
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hi hallmark has a good point whan we started grave huntingwe found a grave digger who probed the groundwitha metal rod to finf if there was an unnamed body within with a possitive outcom
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Hi Graeme , HI Hallmark,
Graeme , I lookred up the ballingarry grave yard info and eventually found one John Alexander, there are a mumber of others also recorded on the headstone but none ring any bells. I'll keep the in fo though as it may prove useful some time or other.
Hallmark , the grave-diggers is a good idea. Who and where.
I have the name of a chap who is some sort of caretaker for Shanrahan Historical Graveyard.
The address is a tad short on info. no postcode/zip and only the district.
there were two sets of numbers - look like phone but do not say so - one could be local and the other mobile.
There is also a hardware shop in Clogheen Main Street and the owners are purported to be the local people to contact. I have emailed without success there.
I shall re think these and see what
thanks for the ideas.
Cheers, Essnell
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The g/digger near me is 4th or 5th generation of g/diggers.... you should see their ledgers!
Grid Ref, when bought, no. of burials allowed, single/double/family plot, no. buried, names, dates .....
Same with another I looked at in Longford! Knows where everyone is buried ;D
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hi esnail the local undertakers for Cahir are Wm Costigan and sns whose range would incorporate a no. of the graveyards for the clogheen area and as such would know a number of the relevant gravediggers. good hunting
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Hi Hallmark and Graeme,
Wow! Hallmark. I should have thought it obvious to get down to the grass roots so to speak.
We here in OZ usually have Sextons in each Cemetery and they were the ones with the records.
You could go to the cemetery ask at the Sexton's office and they could direct you to the exact spot.
Now it is the local councils who control everything and "online" . I shall see what I can fined out.
I will start with what Graeme has given us.
The place in Clogheen was / may be still is is the local hardware store Corbett and Sons but they do not seem to answer emails.
i will look into the Cahir people immediately.
thanks so much I hope the hunting is good and cheerful.
Essnell
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Hi Graeme and Hallmark
I have contacted the undertakers in Cahir. Very helpful people.
Firstly their concept of gravediggers was not a good one and they doubted ledger keeping.
They recommended looking in Castlegrace Cemetery which has already been done by...........
they had also kindly given me the email for the local Clogheen Parish Priest - not too sure about this as i suspect it is the roman Catholic Church there. However that may still prove useful.
Best bit though is that they know this fellow who is connected to the Shanrahan Graveyard, Thomas Costelloe. He is the gravedigger for this Cemetery. I only have an address and phone nos as mentioned previously.
I shall write to him today. It will take time and I hope he answers. wish me luck!
Essnell
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Can only speak from experience!
Longford County Council took over graveyards...neither Church kept Cemetery records but when they contacted the g/digger he had complete ledgers of everyone buried there.
So too has the one living near me!
You contacted the undertakers in Cahir.... so if they want to bury someone in an old unmarked grave.....How do they locate where the grave is??
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Hi Hallmark,
Yes. Bit silly is it not? That is why these guys are there.
I wonder if they have never had to open a really ancient grave.
I would have thought that those records would have also gone to the County Councils. I suppose they are not considered official docs so aren't in the spotlight so to speak.
I have got the letter to Thomas Costelloe ready to go however I cannot post it till Tuesday here in OZ. Easter weekend and no postal service for 4 days. Need to get the correct postage from the P.O.
I shall post here when I hear from him.
Essnell
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Everything is a matter of luck.....there are Cemeteries that have no records too.
Here.....one often comes across g/stones erected recently by descendants abroad to their g/g/parents etc on graves that were unmarked, how did they find location of grave?
When it comes to Genealogy everything is relative!! ;D
The likes of here would be where to ask for your area.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/reading-room/culturenet/archives/tipperary/tipperary-libraries-local/
IF I get time I will go to one in Longford and try to get photo of Ledger and ask to photo Column headings and get Permission to post them here. I photographed them when g/digger (who was also Undertaker) had Ledgers but can't locate them at moment...... too many memory sticks etc!
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hi again just in case you might find it useful the Cof I churh in cahir is st pauls the rev.barbara murray is the dean.however much of her time would be spent in st marys in clonmel. also in the general cahir/clogheen area a no.of themore affluent were quakers you may already have this info.if so my apologies
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Essnell
There may be some information here
https://www.ul.ie/library/looney-papers?fbclid=IwAR2KGdUJLiZ-dlVKqbJPhB5T8Ig3WJnwp82sT5Ao2E7XFAvk7BxKsjCwghc
P J
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http://tipperarystudies.ie/digitisation-project/gravestone-inscriptions/
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HI Merrick and Hallmark,
Thank you both for the links. Merrick - The Looney papers sounded great and that led me to the article in a book about "The Shaping of the Irish Landscape as a geological study". Tthere is a whole chapter that talks about Shanbally Castle Estate. But it has no specifics. I would really need to get to those originals which seems utterly impossible and improbable. They could probably confirm some facts already known but in need of something more definite, like the position held by some of the employees and for how long. I can try to get to one of the archives where these are now held and see what they have to say.
Hallmark the Tipperary Studies has a 366page PDF index of those grave headstone inscriptions already done It looks like it is all alphabetical, so when I looked there was not one Alexander so that part must not yet been added. I will keep reviewing.
thanks again both of you.
also I have not heard anything from the Thomas Costello person but knowing how long the snail mail takes there is still a possibility there.
Kind regards
Essnell.
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Richard Bannister a gardiner at Castle Grace married Eliza Ellen Alexander
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10752/5921204.pdf
they appear to have had two children Rose 1890 and John 1891 and then went to Sea Road, Galway where son Richard was born 1898
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02058/1787068.pdf
then to England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSD2-MP5
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71P-4ZR
son John Henry may have taken part in WW1
Hi all again .
Still no sign of the Alexander grave but the local historian in Clogheen got back to me today and he found the correspondence with the descendants of the Alexanders in Canada . They seem to be from the above marriage that Dathai gave you . He is posting the letter to me tomorrow so I should have it on Monday . P.M. me and I will email you the letter . It was a good few years ago so hopefully your cousins are still with us
P J
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Hi Everyone here,
I have just been looking again for Henry Alexander's death .... as in below posts.
On My Heritage I found a record that says :
Name Henry Forester Alexander
Birth Circa 1832
of Shanrahan, Tipperary, Ireland.
Click here to see the record on Family Search
I did this and all there is only a empty tree with his name no parents or children. Obviously marked as deceased. His record ref is MZNC-ZPK
I am hopefully not over confident that this is probably a clue.
The information appears to me to have been miss interpreted somewhere.
He was a Forester by occupation for several decades on the Shanbally Castle Estates.
Would it be inconceivable for the occupation reference to somehow become part of his name?
Secondly question- How do I get more on this fellow on their search engines?
The links to both refs are below.
https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-40001-568452039/henry-forester-alexander-in-familysearch-family-tree?s=139363402
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/MZNC-ZPK
any comments or ideas appreciate.
Essnell