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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: stitchwitch on Friday 15 March 19 17:23 GMT (UK)

Title: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Friday 15 March 19 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hi All

Another of my late father's knotted research threads which has been doing our collective heads in for decades:

My ggf Thomas Crimes was allegedly born 1862/3 according to the 1871 census and to his death registration. I can't find a birth or baptism for him anywhere, but all his siblings (older and younger) are born at Duddon and registered, Parents are William and Mary nee Rowlands.

He then disappears again completely until he marries Sarah Parsonage in 1895. from there we have him in the 1901 and 1911 census returns living in the village of Ashton with a growing brood of offspring, but claiming to be born c1867. He is NOK on his son William's Army papers in 1916. We know when he died in 1924.

All the bits I have are on my Crimes database if anyone has time to look.

I remember my Nana (his daughter Ida) telling us there were some family tales of him being involved with a fairground or possibly a circus in his youth but there is no provenance for that. She also thought there was some sort of rift between him and his parents. Apparently, all in all, he was not an easy man.It has also always struck us as odd that, as the eldest son, he is named Thomas, and not William which was a bit of a family 'thing'; this was reserved for his brother a year younger. Dad had a theory that Thomas might actually belong to one of his Rowlands aunts (Eliza b1826, Hannah or Anne b1830, Ruth b1839, Rebecca b1844). If this were to be the case then mathematically my money would be on Rebecca or maybe Ruth. Unfortunately none of my digging about has produces anything on that front either, but my next avenue may well be his numerous Crimes aunts as the culprit.

If anyone out there can help me shed any light here I would be unbelievably grateful.

Blue skies!
Anthea

Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 15 March 19 18:42 GMT (UK)
1871 shows all 7 children born Tarvin  - living in Duddon

1861 has 3 children - all b Duddon

1881 has Elizabeth 13 born Chester but in 1871 she is 4mths old b Tarvin.

There are other variations in birthyears within the family which may account for the difference in Thomas's birthyear
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 15 March 19 19:21 GMT (UK)
1881 he is Thomas Grimes b Duddon 1863

RG11  3550/29/10
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 15 March 19 19:32 GMT (UK)
There is an odd 1891 entry you may want to take a look at 

Thomas Crimes b 1864 Duddon living in Liverpool with a 39yr old widow Agnes Heathcote who is shown as his mother!!

RG12  2918/115/1
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: Dundee on Friday 15 March 19 19:34 GMT (UK)
......all his siblings (older and younger) are born at Duddon and registered, Parents are William and Mary nee Rowlands.

I cannot see birth registrations for Mary or Joseph either.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: Dundee on Friday 15 March 19 19:45 GMT (UK)

1881 has Elizabeth 13 born Chester but in 1871 she is 4mths old b Tarvin.


Elizabeth was baptised in 1867 (no birth registration), and Lizzie was registered in Dec quarter 1870.   ???

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: Dundee on Friday 15 March 19 19:48 GMT (UK)

Elizabeth was baptised in 1867 (no birth registration)

Debra  :)

Ok, this was a different William and Mary CRIMES.  Their son Thomas was also baptised at the same time, both in Chester.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Tuesday 19 March 19 15:14 GMT (UK)
1881 he is Thomas Grimes b Duddon 1863

RG11  3550/29/10

Well spotted! How did I miss that one? It certainly looks like a C not a G to me too. Born Duddon fits with where he was aged 8 even if he might have been born in Tarvin.
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 19 March 19 15:35 GMT (UK)
Re my reply 3 - did you have a look at that 1891 entry.
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Tuesday 19 March 19 15:39 GMT (UK)
There is an odd 1891 entry you may want to take a look at 

Thomas Crimes b 1864 Duddon living in Liverpool with a 39yr old widow Agnes Heathcote who is shown as his mother!!

RG12  2918/115/1

I think you're right again, thank you!

Between them, the census bloke and the transcriber seem to have made a right  imperial pigs ear of that household. The kids are clearly Agnes' (not Thomas' as transcribed) and I'll stand hanging if she had him when she was ten. The word "mother" which appears to have been added as an afterthought looks more likely to be a half-baked method of indicating that she is their mother, not that she is his.
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Tuesday 19 March 19 15:54 GMT (UK)
Re my reply 3 - did you have a look at that 1891 entry.

Hehe! I was just doing that - we crossed in the post!
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 19 March 19 15:55 GMT (UK)
Imperial pigs ear just about sums it up  ;D
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Tuesday 19 March 19 16:01 GMT (UK)
No wonder Dad, without internet and with maccular degeneration, was somewhat flummoxed LOL.
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: SiGr on Monday 20 May 19 03:52 BST (UK)
There used to be a website - www.chrimes.org - did you ever check that ? It no longer exists but I downloaded some pdfs for it and it had your Thomas as "Thomas Chrimes" (with an 'h') under the Tarvin branch.

I can't seem to attach a screenshot of the entry for him - if you know how to do so and want me to send it, do let me know.
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: stitchwitch on Monday 20 May 19 14:34 BST (UK)
I'm struggling with how to do that too. Simplest solution is I'll PM you an email address and  you can sling it over as a file attachment, if you wouldn't mind?

Cheers,
Stitch
Title: Re: Seeking Thomas Crimes possibly b1862 Duddon
Post by: SiGr on Tuesday 21 May 19 22:03 BST (UK)
Hi, Stitch, I messaged you yesterday to say the email address you sent was "aborted" by Yahoo's server three times. Do you have an alternate email I can use ? Regards. Simon