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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: mckha489 on Wednesday 13 March 19 08:11 GMT (UK)
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ADDEDIt's OK I've found his Barnodo's record, Harry is a different family, so perhaps the number just means the ship they were on, as I think were on the same ship - by coincidence.
Does anyone know what the number on the RHS of these cards means? (Hopefully the one I am looking at has attached)
ie. on this one Mgt Ellen is definitely the daughter of Rhoda and she has the same no 53. 7 and 29 are their respective ages.
Similarly for Wm. Ed
BUT there is Harry J age 9 also with the number 53 and I have no idea who he is! He is not with Rhoda and the others in 1901 in London, and I haven't found a birth for him (MMN NUTCHER)
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Can't help with the numbers - could they be booking references ???
Slight difference in christian name - Henry Jeffrey Noakes - born 1896 - aged 9 years - Liverpool to Portland Maine - arriving 10 April 1905 on the Kensington.
List of Dr Barnardo boys arriving on the Kensington.
Sandra
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Can't help with the numbers - could they be booking references ???
Slight difference in christian name - Henry Jeffrey Noakes - born 1896 - aged 9 years - Liverpool to Portland Maine - arriving 10 April 1905 on the Kensington.
List of Dr Barnardo boys arriving on the Kensington.
Sandra
Yes, that’s who I decided he was. and there is a girl Ethel Elizabeth NOAKES age 8. A Bernardo child on the same vessel, who puzzles me too. I’m looking for same name b 1899 So age 6 and if Mother Rhoda is also in Canada (died there Nov 1905 age 29) then surely she is not the Barnado one. However her two brothers William and Edward ARE on the Kensington.
I am hoping if I look at it long enough it will become clear!
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About the 53.....
Poking around the passenger list and looking for passengers with names other than Noakes indicates the 53 is likely related to the name of the ship. I looked at several other passengers and all have the 53 in their record.
Did you find who you were looking for?
PB
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Thank you PB. Yes I fiddled about with some of the others and came to that conclusion too.
I found Rhoda Noakes age 29, Wm Edwd 11, Edward 10, and Margaret E 7. All listed together on the part of the list that says Dr Barnado’s group in transit to Canada. Their ages are correct and it’s all nice and tidy. (There are other family groups as well as the long list of children on their own).
In a different part of the Dr Barnardo’s list is Ethel Elizabeth Noakes, age 8. Rhoda had a dau with that name who born in 1899. I don’t think the 8 yr old can be the same one because
A. Not recorded in the family group.
B. Age is wrong, she would still be only 4, and when the other children’s ages are all correct and she is the youngest it seems most unlikely they would make that error.
C. After the death of Rhoda the other three children are accounted for but I see no sign of Ethel Elizabeth
So... did Ethel Elizabeth stay in England? If so who with?
Did she die between 1901 census and 30 March 1905 ?
Did she die in Canada? Get typhoid at same time as mother?? Or die on board ship?
It turns out Ethel Elizabeth NOAKES is a much more common name than one might expect!
The one I am interested in is Edmonton 1899 4th quarter. 3a 470, MMN Nutcher.
Added..and just to make life interesting there are other Noakes on the Kensington, Harry J as in my first post, but also a Mrs Noakes and 2 unnamed children. One F and one M.
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OK then, here is an Ethel for you to consider....
An Ethel Elizabeth McMullin crossed the border from Windsor Ont to Detroit USA 11 Feb 1930, going to in-laws. Her age 30 yrs 4 months. Born Edmonton England. Doesn't remember port of landing, was just a child when brought over. Canadian contact father T W Brooke of Windsor Ont (something is written in front of "father" but I can't make it out).
Family in the 1911 census. Click on split view at the top to see the image. Ethel born England, arrived 1905, older siblings b Ont so parents appear to already be in Canada.
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=36198&highlight=7&desc=1911+Census+of+Canada+page+containing+Tom+W+Brooke
Ethel married Ralph Clayton McMullen 01 Jun 1922 and was widowed in 1925. Ralph gave her birth place as Ontario when he applied for the marriage licence but maybe he just assumed that?
I don't know why Ethel would not have been listed with her mother on the passenger list but suspect the Ethel on it is probably yours with an incorrect age.
It looks to me like little Ethel was perhaps adopted by Tom and Mary Brooke after the death of Rhoda.
Anyway, some food for thought.
PB
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I’ve been looking at that one. Purposely didn’t mention her to see if you thought her possible, the location (Ontario west, Essex) is good wrt the other two who were adopted/fostered,
I had not seen the Edmonton mention though, I think I’ll accept her. With a notation.
Thank you
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You are very welcome.
Too bad they didn't put adopted with the daughter notation in the census.
In case you don't have it, here is the family in 1921, top of the page....
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e002923054
PB
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No, I hadn’t got as far as looking for that. Thank you.
Yes, the Herdmans put adopted son and daughter for their two, and they kept their Noakes surname. Being that much older I suppose. Also, they knew the names of their parents for their marriages.
That was what was making me iffy. One presume there was a birth certificate floating around somewhere. However that marriage license doesn’t even attempt to give Mary Brooks’ maiden name, so I don’t think Ralph can have been very worried about accuracy.
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Actually......
I believe Mary Jane Brooke's maiden name might actually have been Brookes with an s.
Two sons were registered in Ontario to Tom W/Wood Brooke (no s) and Mary Jane Brookes with an s.
Marriage in England for a Tom Wood Brooke (no s) and on the same page Mary Jane Brookes with an s. Mar qtr 1885 Barnsley R D.
Ralph and Ethel had a daughter Helen Jean born in Windsor in 1923. She ended up in the USA. There is quite a bit of info available about her. Here is her grave marker...
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/81141058
PB
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Did you see the cause of death for Ralph. A tree has a newspaper clipping of a delay in the inquest owing to the condition of the person charged, Mrs Janniss. Bullet wound to the heart.
That tree also thinks Ethel was Noakes but has an Ontario birth of 3 sept 1900 (suspect day and month probably correct as baptism was 21 sept 1899) and no named parents.
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Yes, I did see the cause of death. Very tragic.
Ethel is down on the censuses as clearly born in England and having arrived in 1905. One would think the Brooke adoptive (?) parents would have known that. An Ontario birth cert would be available if she was born there.
Online trees are notorious for having errors, unfortunately. I'll have a look at trees later. I do think she is your Ethel Noakes. Difficult to prove outright, though unless you can find a connection between her and her brothers or their descendents who knew what happened to her. As you mentioned earlier...accepting her but with a notation.
PB
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Thank you. I agree.
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Helen Jean Querfeld.
Detroit Free Press (Detroit, Michigan) 23 Dec 1996, Mon - Page 12
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/29728015/helen_jean_querfeld/
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Gosh, quite a few descendents, and with a seemingly unusual surname.
I was wondering why a young widow with 4 small children would take it upon herself to emigrate to Canada/USA. Looks like her sister Eliza preceded her in 1890. She is living in Detroit in 1910 and it looks like Rhoda's son William is living with her and her 2nd husband.
PB
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Gosh, quite a few descendents, and with a seemingly unusual surname.
I was wondering why a young widow with 4 small children would take it upon herself to emigrate to Canada/USA. Looks like her sister Eliza preceded her in 1890. She is living in Detroit in 1910 and it looks like Rhoda's son William is living with her and her 2nd husband.
PB
Yes. William etc. he married Ona O’Neil whose mother was a Herdman. Margaret Ellen (Nellie) and Edward’s adopted family were Herdman.
Nellie married Herbert VOLLANS and HIS mother was a Herdman too! It seems bad luck Ethel should be apparently excluded from this close group
I’m not entirely happy with the proposed death of Ethel. (1986 in England as Ethel Brook). But perhaps someone has family knowledge)
Added, also done under auspices of Barnardos
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From what I can see, the Ethel Brook who died in Lancashire in 1986 had a birthdate of 03 Sep 1900. Wrong year to start with?
We are not allowed to post about lookups in the 1939 register but you can look for her yourself and check her birthdate. I put her names and year of birth in the boxes of the free index. The free index indicates there is also a John W Brook in the same household. Husband perhaps?
I don't believe she is your Ethel. I can't see your Ethel leaving a daughter and grandchildren to move to England. She may have remarried and/or moved back to Ontario, though.
PB
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I don't believe she is your Ethel. I can't see your Ethel leaving a daughter and grandchildren to move to England. She may have remarried and/or moved back to Ontario, though.
PB
Perhaps to the friend Frank NEWELL she crosses the border with in 1933 😀
I think I’ll let her rest for now. At least I’ve tied up the loose end of whether she went to Canada too or not.
Thank you for your help.
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OK then, here is an Ethel for you to consider....
An Ethel Elizabeth McMullin crossed the border from Windsor Ont to Detroit USA 11 Feb 1930, going to in-laws. Her age 30 yrs 4 months. Born Edmonton England. Doesn't remember port of landing, was just a child when brought over. Canadian contact father T W Brooke of Windsor Ont (something is written in front of "father" but I can't make it out).
PB
Hi PB
PB - I think that says step-father.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5MV-KD2?i=2177&cc=1916040
The border crossing 12 Jan 1932 (when Ethel is accompanied by Frank Newell - going to a friend Mrs Catherine West - 4800 Commonwealth Ave, Detroit) refers to Mary Brook as s- mother
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-G5MV-KZ3?i=2175&cc=1916040
Sandra
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The friend Frank Leslie Newell and his wife Sarah nee Dyer Newell passed away in Farmington Hills Oakland Michigan.
Frank passed 25/1/1986 and Sarah nee Dyer Newell 7/2/2003
Sandra
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The son of Frank and Sarah - Francis Lelsie Newell - 20 December 1930 passed away 7/4/2003 (same year as his mother)
Sandra
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Well, that removes the temptation to marry them off! Even though that’s two transits in his company 1932 & 1933
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Perhaps Ethel McMullin (nurse) travelled with Frank Leslie Newell because both lived in Windsor Ontario. Ethel was visiting her daughter Helen and Frank was visiting his father who also lived in Detroit Michigan.
Sandra