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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ozdot on Tuesday 12 March 19 09:43 GMT (UK)
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My great grandmother, Anna Lush Roberts is shown on the 1851 Census as a glover. I have info (I can't remember or find the slip of paper) that she went on to run a shop, maybe near her home in Fontmell Magna in Dorset. So I'm wondering if there are any listings of shopkeepers etc in 19th century archives anywhere.
Help please, I am in Western Australia and a bit far away to search on the ground.
Regards,
Dot.
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Is she the Anna Lush Roberts that married Thomas Edward Cole in 1859 and died in London
Anna Lush Cole born c1822 died 1902 Wandsworth, London
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Presuming that I have the right person, from what I can see of her she moved around with her husband, no mention of an occupation for her. Her husband died in 1888 in Chertsey. In 1901 she was living in Putney age 79 living on own means and died in 1902.
When Thomas died in 1888 he left an estate of £683.14s.7d.
Anna left effects of £281.5s -her son Edgar Austin Cole was mentioned on the probate index.
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They are on the 1861 census living at Iwerne, Shaftesbury, Dorset
Thomas E Cole born 1827, farmer of 50 acres employing 2 people, born Kingston, Dorset
Anna L Cole born 1834 in Kingston, Dorset
Joseph B R Cole, son, born 1861 in Gillingham, Dorset
This is his birth registration:-
COLE, OWEN JOSEPH ROBERTS (MMN) ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in SHAFTESBURY Volume 05A Page 208
I'm just wondering if the B should have been an O.
The usual place to look regarding trades is Kelly's Directories. I always seem to get into a muddle when trying to search these online, so perhaps someone with more expertise can have a look in a Dorset one for you.
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This is the Edgar that Rosie has mentioned.
COLE, EDGAR AUSTIN ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in SHAFTESBURY Volume 05A Page 262
Had a daughter as well
COLE, LOUISA ELIZABETH ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in SHAFTESBURY Volume 05A Page 218
Living in Hampshire in 1871.
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I can't see any evidence that she had a 'shop' before marriage or carried on working as a glover after she married.
Was this not an occupation that was often carried on 'at home'. I suspect that when she was 'living on own means' in 1901 she may have been living on the money left by her husband
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1851 she appears to be a Assistant (Shopwoman) in Walcot, Somerset.
Cant see one that is a Glover.
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Thanks Rosie, Girl Guide and trish,
Yes, you have all tracked her and Thomas Cole. Owen Joseph Robert Cole was my grandfather.
He emigrated in 1910 and had a couple of farms (wheat) here in WA. He died in 1929.
I think I was remembering Kellys Directories from somewhere.
Thanks again for being so prompt replying.
Dot.
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There were other trades directories e.g. Pigot's.
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Is this Anna/Anne in 1841? ref HO107 970 36 22
This Anne is "not born in County" and occupation of head of household links to the occupation of the head of household in the 1851 Census.
William Carter, of 1 Abingdon Buildings (1851 Census), had an advert in the "Directory of Bath 1852"
https://leicester.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/67229/rec/3
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What about rate-books? You would need an idea of address.
Leases?
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No hanes teulu, I have a birth date of 1821/24 for Anna, born Woolands, Dorset.
Cheers, Dot.
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The Anne Roberts, age 20, at Walcot on the '41 Census was born between 1821-1824, allowing for the rounding down of age that applied to that Census.
The address was Lower East Hayes and FindMyPast has the burials (transcription only) of -
Elizabeth Roberts, age 68, 3 Lower East Hayes, buried 20 Jan 1842
Leonard Hayes, age 70, Lower East Hayes, buried 29 April 1847. Leonard's death was reported in the local paper " ... after a protracted illness, borne with Christian fortitude and resignation".
Was Leonard, as a "Stable Keeper", owner of the business or, possibly, an employee of William Carter?. Did Anne step into Leonard's shoes? Need to check for a will.
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No hanes teulu, I have a birth date of 1821/24 for Anna, born Woolands, Dorset.
Cheers, Dot.
Parents are Joseph & Caroline (nee Lush) Roberts
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There were other trades directories e.g. Pigot's.
Slater's was another one.
"Trade Directories" by Lorna Moloney pdf
www.rcb.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Directories.pdf
Edit. Lorna Moloney's list applies to Ireland. I'd just been on 2 Irish threads and was also listening to B _ _x_t coverage re Ireland and forgot which country this was in. :-[ ( I'm blaming B. befuddlement which is contagious.) There should be an English equivalent list.
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Parents are Joseph & Caroline (nee Lush) Roberts
[/quote]
Agreed - details (transcription only) on FindMyPast.
Hadn't found an Anna in '41 or '51 with a Joseph and Caroline (or either) but had found a Joseph and Caroline Roberts + family at Kington Magna on the '41 Census - but no Anna (reference HO107 293 12 13). The 2 oldest boys were baptised Kington Magna but yet to find rest of children.
The 1841 census does not identify relationship. I hadn't assumed Leonard and Elizabeth to be Anne's parents. The Leonard Roberts on the 1841 Census is possibly the Leonard Roberts bap. Shaftesbury 11 May 1777. I took the place of birth of Anna on the '51 Census, Walcot, Bath as a possible abbreviation of "Shaftesbury". I haven't spotted a baptism for an Anna/Ann, father a Leonard, in that area - but Leonard could be related in some way.
Interesting to know if Anna declared an occupation on her marriage cert.
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Can you provide the ref no and head of household name for the 1851 Census you refer to when Anna is down as occp Glover please.
I can only find the one who is a Assistant.
Also as hanes teulu asked does she have an occp on her M/C to Thomas Cole?
Trish :)
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Details from census
1841 with parents Joseph & Caroline all born Dorset
Middle Street, Kington Magna
HO107/293 bk12 f13 p20
Joseph Roberts 45
Caroline Roberts 45
Stephen Roberts 15
John W Roberts 15
Sarah Roberts 13
Susanna Roberts 10
Caroline Roberts 8
Ann Roberts 5
In 1851 they are living in Amport, Hampshire - All born Kington Magna except parents
HO107/1683 f164 p1
Joseph 58 born Compton Abbas, Dorset
Caroline 58 bn Shroton, Dorset
John 25
Samuel 21 (could this be Stephen in 1841)
Sarah 23
Caroline 15
Ann 15
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Firstly to thank those Chatters who told me of the various books where I might find the info I am after.
Secondly, I seem to have opened a can of worms with Anna Lush Roberts. Thanks to hanes teulu, trish1120 and Rosie 99 for the details they have found for her. I am completely wrong I think about her. I'm afraid I can't give references for my data because it has all been found online from the Censuses and I have not any reference numbers of which ones I found her on.
In 1841 I found a family at West Orchard, Dorset with Anna, 15. Joseph and Ann listed as parents.
I assumed this was a second marriage for Joseph.
In 1851 I have Ann as head, widow born Portsmouth, George, son, 32 born West Orchard and Anna, daughter, 26, glover, born West Orchard.
In 1867 She is in Iwerne married to Thomas E Cole, farmer,50 acres, born Kington Dorset. Anna L Cole, wife, 37, born Wooland, Dorset.
Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated.
Dot.
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I had a strong feeling it was Anna Roberts, occpn. glover, daughter of Joseph and Ann, that you were linking to Anna Lush Roberts. I had checked out the marriage of Joseph and Ann and FindMyPast had two records (transcription only). One mentioned West Orchard and the other Fontmell Magna - Fontmell Magna mentioned in your initial post. The '51 Census had Ann as a widow.
The Joseph and Caroline at Kington Magna look strong possibilities as Anna Lush Roberts parents - but not guaranteed. All very tantalising. Think the marriage cert, provided Anna's occupation
was present, might contribute.
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So we have 2 christenings;
ANNA Roberts 19 September 1824, Fontmell, Dorset to JOSEPH/ANNE***
(image has her Father as a Labourer)
ANN Roberts 30 April 1826 East Orchard Parish, Dorset to JOSEPH/ANN
+ GEORGE 4 April 1819 Fontmell to JOSEPH/ANN***
*** So fits 1851 Census you provided Dot.
Their 1st child seems to be Elizabeth 1813 and I think this may be their Marriage;
1812 Iwerne Courtnay, Dorset
Joseph ROBERT/Ann SCOTT
I personally think we can rule out this Anna
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Joseph ROBERT married Caroline LUSH 4 January 1816 Compton-Abbas, Compton-Abbas, Dorset.
A witness was ANNA Lush
They Bapt;
LOUISA 4 Aug 1816
THOMAS LUSH 22 February 1818 (Father a Yeoman)
ANNA LUSH 5 August 1821
STEPHEN 4 December 1822
JOHN WILLIAM 18 September 1825
Cant find other children from 1841 Census Baptisms.
1841 Census a SAMUEL Roberts age 11 and ELIZABETH age 13 are Pupils in a School in Fifehead Magdalen.
1851/1861 Caroline Roberts is born c 1793 Shroton/Shroter
Caroline LUSH
Christening Date: 20 Mar 1793, Sutton Waldron, Dorset
Father NICHOLAS
Nicholas married Susanna* APPLIN 26 Apr 1789 Sutton Waldron
A ANNA Lush was buried 5 Apr 1817 Compton Abbas age 17 (1795)
She may be the 1816 Marriage witness