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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Shazzersj on Sunday 10 March 19 01:42 GMT (UK)
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When Agnes Thomson married Hugh Fraser, tailor, in Edinburgh in 1846 she gave her father as John Thomson writer. My understanding of the term writer is a solicitor.
All through the census she states she was born in Edinburgh. She died in 1905 in Hopeman Duffus and her son gave her parents as John Thomson, writer and ------- Thomson m.s. Dunbar. She was 80 years of age (born c1825)
I believe the Dunbar connection to be right, since both her daughter and granddaughter bear the middle name Dunbar.
One would think if John Thomson was a writer there would be some trace of him, but no luck after 20 years of research thus far.
I have searched parish registers, Scotlands People and various other sources but without luck.
Interesting part of Agnes Thomson story is after her marriage her name became Agnes Farquharson Galbraith Thomson or Fraser.
Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on Mysterious Agnes.
Sharon in Oz.
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"... her name became Agnes Farquharson Galbraith Thomson or Fraser."
Can you expand on this please. When and where do you see Agnes identified with these names?
Is this your family?
Census 1851 at Forsyths Close Moray
FRASER Hugh 29yrs tailor employ 13 men b. Duffus Morayshire
FRASER Agne 28yrs b. Edinburgh
FRASER Ann Dunbar 4yrs b. Elgin, Morayshire
FRASER Christina 3yrs b. Elgin, Morayshire
FRASER John Alexr 1yr b. Elgin, Morayshire
FRASER William 16yrs brother b. Duffus Morayshire
MERRIAM William 22yrs lodger workman sailor b. Elgin, Morayshire
McKIMMIE William 16yrs lodger apprentice b. Duffus, Morayshire
McKIMMIE Thomas 13yrs lodger apprentice b. Duffus, Morayshire
GRANT Grace 18yrs servant b. Elgin, Morayshire
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Yes, that is my family.
For some reason Agnes Fraser nee Thomson began to call herself Agnes Farquharson Gilbraith Thomson on the baptisms of the children. Ann Dunbar Fraser was chr 28 Feb 1847 in Elgin, Christina was baptised in 1848 Elgin, Agnes in 1852 in Elgin, Margaret Armour Fraser born 1855 (just noticed that it says she was the 6th child of Agnes, I only have 5) Hugh Thomson Fraser born 1857 and Williamina Hardie Fraser born born 1859 all have their mother titled Agnes Farquharson Gilbraith Thomson. I have always wondered about this. Census entries just have Agnes and it is just Agnes on her death certificate in 1905.
Again another enigma her funeral notice:
From Elgin Courant 1st August 1905
The Funeral of AGNES MUIR THOMSON, Widow of Hugh Fraser, Elgin, takes placed today (Tuesday) from Hopeman, to the Cemetery of Elgin, the remains arriving at Bishopmill about one o'clock pm.
Her husband Hugh Fraser was a very successful tailor in Elgin, yet there is no trace of a headstone for anyone in the Elgin cemetery. Mind you I was told there was a lot of land slippage in this area which may account for it.
I would love to solve this mystery, both the parentage of Agnes and the reason for the other names.
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have you tried the street directories at https://digital.nls.uk/directories/ ? I had a quick look and in 1819-1820 there is a John Thomson, writer, 3 Parliament Square.
Does the marriage record say that Agnes' father was deceased?
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That is brilliant thank you. The marriage doesn’t say he was deceased but that is the first instance I have had that he actually existed. ;D
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That is brilliant thank you. The marriage doesn’t say he was deceased but that is the first instance I have had that he actually existed. ;D
It's not 100% conclusive, but usually the Edinburgh parish register does say 'daughter of the deceased/umquhill/late ....' if her father is deceased.
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I wonder if this death might be relevant :-\
The Scotsman August 13, 1836
At his house 2 Hamilton Place, Newington on 10th inst John Thomson Esq Writer
Kay
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The 1835-1836 Post Office directory lists John Thomson, writer, 13 St James Square, but he is not listed in 1836-1837 or in Pigott's directory of 1837.
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There is a Inventory / Trust Disposition / Settlement dated 7/9/1836 on Scotlands People for John Thomson - Messenger at Arms, residing in No.2 Hamilton Place in Newington of Edinburgh if it is relevant
Kay
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There is a Inventory / Trust Disposition / Settlement dated 7/9/1836 on Scotlands People for John Thomson - Messenger at Arms, residing in No.2 Hamilton Place in Newington of Edinburgh if it is relevant
Good find, Kay! As it's a TD&S it probably names wife and children.
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Is this your family?. I am not finding them otherwise on the 1871 census.
I am not sure that George PHIMISTER is correctly included in this household.
Census 1871 at 2 Commerce St Elgin Morayshire
FRASER Andrew 49yrs head tailor b. Duffus
FRASER Ann 48yrs wife b. Edinburgh
FRASER Agnes 19yrs son scholar b. Elgin
FRASER Hugh T(homas?) 14yrs son makers apprentice b. Elgin
FRASER Margaret A(rmour?) 16yrs dau mothers assistant b. Elgin
FRASER Williamina 11yrs dau scholar b. Elgin
PHIMISTER George 28yrs son acting postmast b. Elgin
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That's just a classic dud transcription. Extract of original attached.
The first two names are clearly Hugh and Agnes, not Andrew and Ann, and George Phimister is in a separate household, presumably the son of the postmaster and acting for him while he is away from home. Agnes Jr is a daughter, not a son, and a teacher, not a scholar. Hugh Jr is a baker's apprentice.
This is why you always have to look (eventually - I am as guilty as everyone else of not having got round to viewing all mine) at the original and not rely on someone else's misreading.
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OH my gosh! what a wonderful notification to wake up to. I have now downloaded the will etc - its long, its written almost parallel to the line and its very squashed up. It will take time and I will persevere, I have been looking for this man for 20 years and you folk made it look so easy!
To the researcher looking for the census entries, thank you I have those. Hopefully this will etc will give some clue to the interesting middle names of Agnes and of those of her children: Armour and Hardie.
I will certainly keep you posted.
Thank you again
Sharon in Oz
and visiting Edinburgh in 2 weeks .. perhaps I might even have a headstone to locate :D
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Scotland's People index has several listings of burials of John Thomsons in Edinburgh in 1836, including one aged 69 on 10 August 1836. This should tell you which kirkyard he is buried in.
Also an Isabella Dunbar, Thomson/Gilbert Dunbar, on 18 December 1854 which might be worth investigating.
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Well its still not straightforward as I thought it would be. I managed to decipher one daughter Jane Stewart Thomson whose mother was Margaret Bremner.
I found a marriage for Jane Stewart Thomson in 1857 (aged 28 at the time and residing at No 7 Duncan Street, Leith) and it gives her parents as John Thomson, Messenger at Arms and Margaret Bremner. (Margaret appears to be still alive at 1857).
In 1868 there is a death for a Margaret Thomson (widow) at the St Cuthbert's Poor House Edinburgh. No other information except her m.s. was Bremner.
The document also mentions Sasines - would they be worth pursuing?
Perhaps Agnes Thomson was illegitimate ::)
Perhaps this is the wrong man :-[
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Thanks Forfarian
Now the puzzle deepens!
marriage: 7 Nov 1813: Gilbert Dunbar gentlm servant, St Andrew Parish and Isabella Thomson same Parish daughter of George Thomson joint keeper of the Parliament House Edinburgh.
baptism: Gilbert Dunbar servant and Isabella Thomson HS (I think) St Andrews Parish AS (possibly AD) 13 22nd April last named William baptised by Mr A Thomson.
burial: Dec 8 1854: Mrs Isabella thomson wife of Gilbert Dunbar 68 years 2 Deanhaugh Street (no cause of death.
The death you mentioned for Mr John Thomson wasn't the right man - this one was a music teacher .... speaking of which:
Is this Agnes prior to her marriage:
Piece: SCT1841/685 Place: St Cuthbert's -Midlothian Enumeration District: 25
Civil Parish: St Cuthberts Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 25 Page: 4
Address: 9 South Richmond Street
Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DUNBAR William M 60 Musician Outside Census County (1841)
DUNBAR Ann F 43 Outside Census County (1841)
THOMSON Agness F 22 Straw Hat Maker Midlothian
And .... just for coincidence sake:
A child William Thomson Dunbar, son of Gilbert and Isabella died from an accident at 23 Jamaica Street, Edinburgh in 1824. Agnes Thomson and Hugh Fraser married at 3 Jamaica Street, Edinburgh in 1846.
1851 census states that Gilbert Dunbar was born in Morayshire and his wife was born in Edinburgh.
What a family!