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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: SHAZ131 on Thursday 28 February 19 20:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi i wondered if anyone could help I have tried for so long now to get information on my 2nd great grandmother, Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this information so far but unable to confirm her parents I have them has Thomas Barry and Mary Carthy can anyone verify this for me. On one tree in Ancestry, they have her name as Barns or Barrie. Thank you in Advance for any help, Birth 2 SEP 1833 • wicklow Dublin, Ireland
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Where does 2 Sep 1833 Wicklow Dublin come from?
Wicklow and Dublin are two different counties right next to each other so it looks like some parish that straddles the border.
What religion was Esther?
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From ancestry that's all I know, I would go for a birth certificate but I don't no any definite information. I'm not even sure if what I have is correct. I have tried to find a marriage between her and Job Barrow but nothing comes up for Esther Barry and Job Barrow
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B Certs only start 1864
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B Certs only start 1864
Oh, really I didn't know that, so is there any way of me finding out other than going to Ireland
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https://registers.nli.ie/ but you don't know Parish.
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That is IF she was R.C.
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C Reg Death results for Thomas Barry from 1864 to 1899 are useless as there are no images yet
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ngd/
You need to find districts for Wicklow
https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php and select Wicklow from Drop Down box
then check those districts on http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ngd/
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Birth 2 SEP 1833 • wicklow Dublin, Ireland
only shows how little research has been done!!
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From ancestry that's all I know, …
I'm not even sure if what I have is correct.
Was the information re Dublin Wicklow from a baptism record on Ancestry or from a family tree?
Was Wicklow part of a Dublin diocese in either R.C. or C. of. I. ?
Where and when did the marriage to Job Barlow in Lancashire happen? Have you searched for it on Lancashire BMD or Lancashire Online Parish Clerks?
Have you found the couple on census after their marriage or Esther on a census before she married?
What children did they have? Where and when were they born and baptised?
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I think it would be better for you to do your own research, and use online trees with caution.
"..my 2nd great grandmother, Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this"
You have identified this couple to be your great great grandparents when researching the origins of....?...who?
Who is your great grandparent.......... son / daughter of Esther and Job?
Can you give birth, death, marriage information about that person.
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From ancestry that's all I know, …
I'm not even sure if what I have is correct.
Was the information re Dublin Wicklow from a baptism record on Ancestry or from a family tree?
Was Wicklow part of a Dublin diocese in either R.C. or C. of. I. ?
Where and when did the marriage to Job Barlow in Lancashire happen? Have you searched for it on Lancashire BMD or Lancashire Online Parish Clerks?
Have you found the couple on census after their marriage or Esther on a census before she married?
What children did they have? Where and when were they born and baptised?
All info from Trees or census No marriage document the first child was born in 1855 so I presume it was a guess from another tree, They had 7 children and I have just checked them they were baptized in Liverpool. I have census after marriage one says Ireland other says Dublin Ireland. It was the irish catholic register that said Baptism Place
Arklow, Wicklow and Wexford, Ireland
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Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this information so far but unable to confirm her parents I have them has Thomas Barry and Mary Carthy can anyone verify this for me.
Her father's name should be on marriage certificate and in church marriage register. A few Catholic marriage registers sometimes also named mothers. Have you seen either the marriage certificate or church register?
Why do you think Esther's mother was Mary?
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0457 Arklow farthest Parish from Dublin!!
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I think it would be better for you to do your own research, and use online trees with caution.
"..my 2nd great grandmother, Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this"
You have identified this couple to be your great great grandparents when researching the origins of....?...who?
Who is your great grandparent.......... son / daughter of Esther and Job?
Can you give birth, death, marriage information about that person.
This is my Great Grandfather the son of Esther and job
Job Barrow
1859–1921
Birth 1859 • Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Death JUN 1921 • Warrington, Lancashire, England
That's all I have of him. Sorry it's not more but I was separated age 5 from all my family and don't know nothing about them
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What is on Ancestry could be a completely Blue Herring!! ;D
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"..They had 7 children and I have just checked them they were baptized in Liverpool. "
What did you check.........the same dubious online tree?
Can you name the seven children, and their birth years please.
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0457 Arklow farthest Parish from Dublin!!
Geographically speaking, although it's in R.C. diocese of Dublin. So information is correct, just confusing. We're the ones who are supposed to know the geography etc. of Ireland. Confusing country for those new to it. :) I mean - it has a border which goes through people's houses. :)
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Hi i wondered if anyone could help I have tried for so long now to get information on my 2nd great grandmother, Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this information so far but unable to confirm her parents I have them has Thomas Barry and Mary Carthy can anyone verify this for me. On one tree in Ancestry, they have her name as Barns or Barrie. Thank you in Advance for any help, Birth 2 SEP 1833 • wicklow Dublin, Ireland
You have only now just mentioned Arklow!!
As in "Arklow, Wicklow and Wexford, Ireland"
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Shaz, since you're starting on Irish research, can I recommend an online site called Irish Toolkit?
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0457 Arklow farthest Parish from Dublin!!
Geographically speaking, although it's in R.C. diocese of Dublin. So information is correct, just confusing. We're the ones who are supposed to know the geography etc. of Ireland. Confusing country for those new to it. :) I mean - it has a border which goes through people's houses. :)
Which will come in handy again after Brexit!! ;D ;D
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Hi i wondered if anyone could help I have tried for so long now to get information on my 2nd great grandmother, Esther Barry, She was married to Job Barrow in Lancashire, I know this information so far but unable to confirm her parents I have them has Thomas Barry and Mary Carthy can anyone verify this for me. On one tree in Ancestry, they have her name as Barns or Barrie. Thank you in Advance for any help, Birth 2 SEP 1833 • wicklow Dublin, Ireland
You have only now just mentioned Arklow!!
As in "Arklow, Wicklow and Wexford, Ireland"
Sauce https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633295#page/99/mode/1up
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Geographically speaking, although it's in R.C. diocese of Dublin. So information is correct, just confusing. We're the ones who are supposed to know the geography etc. of Ireland. Confusing country for those new to it. :) I mean - it has a border which goes through people's houses. :)
Which will come in handy again after Brexit!! ;D ;D
Ideal site for a customs post.
Give Shaz some slack. My roots are in Mayo but my grandad's family sometimes went shopping in Sligo and I have a suspicion his father might have been born in Roscommon.
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https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php and select Wicklow from Drop Down box
then check those districts on http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ngd/
This is useful for identifying registration districts, parishes etc. You can look up place-names on it.
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Census 1861 at Clare Street Liverpool
BARROW Job 28 yrs bootmaker b. Warrington, Lancashire
BARROW Esther 28 yrs boot binder b. Ireland
BARROW Benjamin 5 yrs b. Liverpool
BARROW Ann 3 yrs b. Liverpool
BARROW Job 7 mths b. Liverpool
POTHERWELL John 81 yrs lodger widower b. Wigan, Lancashire
Census 1871 at 6 Prescott Rd Warrington
BARROW Job 40 yrs cordwainer b. Warrington
BARROW Esther 38 yrs b. Dublin, Ireland
BARROW Benjamin 15 yrs wire worker b. Liverpool
BARROW Job 10 yrs scholar b. Liverpool
BARROW William 7 yrs scholar b. Liverpool
BARROW Anne 5 yrs scholar b. Liverpool
Census 1881 at 1 Ch*** Yard Warrington
BARROW Job 46 yrs boot and shoe maker b. Warrington Lancashire
BARROW Hester 44 yrs b. Ireland
BARROW William Francis 15 yrs wire drawer b. Liverpool Lancashire
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Sauce https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633295#page/99/mode/1up
Arklow Parish; Counties Wicklow and Wexford.
Esther of Thomas Barry & Mary Carthy. Sponsors Edw. Carthy and Mary Foley. Residence was Arklow.
(My transcription)
Edward Carthy may have been Mary's brother or another relative.
There are a few baptism in 1809, then 1817-1868. Marriages 1818-1866.
You could look for Thomas and Mary's marriage in Arklow and parishes nearby. Marriages were usually in bride's parish. You can also search for possible baptisms of Esther's siblings in Arklow and surrounding parishes. Not all parishes have registers surviving from those years.
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GRO births
BARROW, Benjamin Sep Q 1855 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 229v mothers maiden surname BYRNE
BARROW, Ann Jane Jan Q 1858 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 194 mothers maiden surname BYRNE
BARROW Job Sep Q 1860 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 208 mothers maiden surname BURNS
BARROW, Willaim Dec Q 1863 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 233 mothers maiden surname BYRNE
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Was there a second Anne? Anne on 1871 census was too young to be same Anne.
Wiliam Francis might have been a different boy to the William on 1871.
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A Job Barrow married in Lancashire 1862. I can't find a matching marriage for an Esther Barry, Byrne or Burn.
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A Job Barrow married in Lancashire 1862. I can't find a matching marriage for an Esther Barry, Byrne or Burn.
Am really wondering how "accurate" that Ancestry "tree" is!
Are there proven Sources for anyone on it??
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Census 1861 at Clare Street Liverpool
BARROW Job 28 yrs bootmaker b. Warrington, Lancashire
BARROW Esther 28 yrs boot binder b. Ireland
BARROW Benjamin 5 yrs b. Liverpool
BARROW Ann 3 yrs b. Liverpool
BARROW Job 7 mths b. Liverpool
POTHERWELL John 81 yrs lodger widower b. Wigan, Lancashire
Must be a different Job as Shaz knows her Great Grandfather was the son of Esther and job
Job Barrow
1859–1921
Birth 1859 • Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Death JUN 1921 • Warrington, Lancashire, England
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There was also a Job Barrow married in Sussex in 1855.
Edit. Hailsham, Sussex.
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Your great grandfather Job BARROW b. ~ 1860...who did he marry, when did he marry.
Which of his sons / daughters is your grandparent?
How have you found the names of the people who are your grandparents?
How have you identified any of these people to be your ancestors?..........only by using an online family tree?
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This is my Great Grandfather the son of Esther and job
Job Barrow
1859–1921
Birth 1859 • Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Death JUN 1921 • Warrington, Lancashire, England
Was birth year of 1859 taken from his age at death or have you identified a birth registration for a Job Barrow who was born or registered in 1859?
The year of birth on an index to death registrations on family history sites is calculated by subtracting the stated age of the deceased at death from the year the death was registered. Therefore the resulting year of birth is only an estimate. Many will be out by a year at least. English death certificates give age at death, as stated by informant, not year of birth. GRO Index which is the official government index gives age at death.
Information about age given to registry office staff by informant of death wasn't always accurate either.
I searched for a Job Barrow birth 1860 + or - 2 years in Lancashire on FindMyPast. The only one was registered in Liverpool in 1860. The Job who was aged 7 months on 1861 census would have been born and registered in 1860. Census was taken in March or April except for 1841. Job Barrow on 1861 census would have been born in late summer or early autumn 1860.
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GRO births
BARROW, Benjamin Sep Q 1855 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 229v mothers maiden surname BYRNE
BARROW, Ann Jane Jan Q 1858 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 194 mothers maiden surname BYRNE
BARROW Job Sep Q 1860 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 208 mothers maiden surname BURNS
BARROW, Willaim Dec Q 1863 Liverpool Vol 08b Page 233 mothers maiden surname BYRNE
Other possible birth registrations in Liverpool from GRO with mother's maiden name Byrne:
1854 Ann; 1870 John
There was also Mary Barron 1867, mother's maiden name Byrne. I included it in case letter w had been mistaken for n.
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Ann Jane was baptised at St. Peter, Liverpool 1859. Abode Gerard Street. Date of birth stated was 18th March 1858. (From Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website)
These may be marriages of 2 of the children, both at St. Paul, Warrington:
24th Dec. 1877
Benjamin Barrow, age 22, abode Howard St.
Elizabeth Jane Whitfield
Groom's father Job Barrow, cordwainer
7th June 1885
William Barrow, age 20, ironworker, Froghall Lane
Mary Langton
Another Wiliam Barrow, also with a father called Job married in 1885 at St. George, Everton.
25th Dec. 1885
William Barrow, 22, bachelor, Netherfield Road
Louisa Howe, 23, widow
Groom's father Job Barrow, butcher
Adding to confusion, 3 daughters of a Job Barrow, shoemaker married between 1852-62.
1852 St. Luke, Farnworth, Widnes
Thomas Green, shoemaker, St. Helens
Mary Ann Barrow, age 20, St. Helens
Bride's father Job Barrow, shoemaker
4th June 1855 St. Mary the Virgin, Prescot
Richard Littler, millwright, widower
Elizabeth Barrow
Groom's father Richard Littler, carpenter
Bride's father Job Barrow, shoemaker
3rd Nov. 1862 St. Mary the Virgin, Prescot
Richard Littler, 24, bachelor, carpenter
Jane Barrow, 24, spinster
Groom's father Richard Littler, carpenter
Bride's father Job Barrow, shoemaker
Slight deviation: Could this have been father and son who married 2 sisters? :-\ If the Richard Littler, groom in second marriage was same man as in 1855 wedding, the second marriage was illegal. ::)
The Job Barrow who was father of those 3 daughters must have been older than the one whose wife was Esther. There was a death registration of a Job Barrow in Prescot district 1859.
Prescot, Widnes and St. Helens are not far from Liverpool and Warrington.
An earlier baptism. 6th April 1828 at St. Elphin, Warrington. Job Barrow, son of Benjamin & Ann. Abode Horsemarket; occupation shoemaker.
A Benjamin Barrow had several children baptised with wife Ann and there were also baptisms for children of Benjamin & Marjery.
A bit more confusion re surnames. Martha Barrow, a daughter of Ben the shoemaker, married William Berry at Warrington 1847. So their children would have had surname Berry and mother's maiden surname Barrow. If registrar or transcriber wasn't careful, they might both have been Barry. ???
All information from LAN OPC.
I know this doesn't help with Esther but it helps fill in Job and differentiate him from others of that name in the area.
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Thank you, everyone, I'm sorry but I really was out of my depths with this research. i shall take time reading what you have all said, All I know for definite is Martha Alice Barrow
Martha Alice Barrow
1895–1976
Birth 4 MAY 1895 • Warrington Cheshire
Death 05 JAN 1976 • Warrington, Cheshire, England
she was my grandmother and my older brother had got this information, Thanks again
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My advice is to forget Ancestry tree!
Work step by step back in time....
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I agree with hallmark's reply #37. It's very easy to follow the wrong track if you take too much notice of online trees.
I know how wrong some can be. One set of my grandparents, lived for 30+ years in the same village where I was born, brought up 10 children there, ran a business which was taken over by my parents and died there. According to an online tree, while all that was happening, they somehow managed to have 6 more children in a town in another part of the county, born when grandma was in her 50s, all done without her ever leaving home! ???
My other grandma, an only child, has been wrongly allocated a brother by an online tree. Her maternal grandmother has multiple identities on Ancestry trees. One has her dead before her 2 youngest sons were born. ??? (My mother knew both sons.) Despite the fact that those 2 sons were with their father on a census, a tree owner had already killed the father off, 20 years prematurely. ???
There are many threads on RootsChat grousing about incorrect and misleading online trees.
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Ann Jane was baptised at St. Peter, Liverpool 1859. Abode Gerard Street. Date of birth stated was 18th March 1858. (From Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website
This church was Church of England. So Esther's religious affiliation is an open question. No evidence that she was Catholic. Ann Jane's baptism was the only one I found.
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GRO
BARROW, Martha Alice mms LEIGH
1895 JanQ Warrington Vol 08C Page 254
I think you said that you had limited contact with your family from an early age.
The birth date, death date and family name of your grandmother.........your brother got this information?. And before that you, and your brother, did not know grandmother's family name?
Do you have your own memory / knowledge of your grandmother......visited her, sent birthday cards etc.....knew BARROW / LEIGH cousins, aunts, uncles.......or.........all your knowledge is received from others.
Do you have marriage certificate for grandmother?
Do you have your parents marriage certificate?