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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: malijibic on Thursday 21 February 19 21:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Thursday 21 February 19 21:40 GMT (UK)
Memorial card indicates that gg grandmother buried in Dolbenmaen Cemetery.
Is this cemetery a municipal or a Church Cemetery ?
Is Dolbenmaen and Garn Dolbenmaen near to one another or are they two names for the same village?
Have the Memorial Inscriptions been published?
Thank you for reading my post
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: nestagj on Friday 22 February 19 09:47 GMT (UK)
Hello there
Dolbenmaen is a church cemetery;
Dolbenmaen is the parish and Garndolbenmaen is a village within the parish.
The MI have been published by Gwynedd FHS but there are many unmarked graves there .
What was your g grandmothers name and date of burial ?

Edit sorry couldn’t see the card properly on my phone

Regards
Nesta
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Friday 22 February 19 12:40 GMT (UK)
Thank you for replying, we went to Garndolbenmaen looking for a cemetery with no luck.
The memorial card is for  Ellen Roberts, wife of Robert Roberts, Bryn Marlwyd.  She died Feb 7  1902.
Wondering whether her husband was buried with her or with his first wife.
Could you please tell me where the Dolbenmaen church is as I hope to come to Caernarvonshire in the near future. (on a cemetery crawl !!!!)
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: nestagj on Saturday 23 February 19 20:02 GMT (UK)
Set set nav to LL51 9RQ

That should take you to pretty close to the church.... it’s just off the main Porthmadog to Caernarfon road .... about 4 miles from Porthmadog .
I’m sorry can’t help much more ... still looking my G grand parents’ grave there and I also have cousin .... a premature baby who was buried with them !
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Sunday 24 February 19 18:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much, will stop there on our way to Llanwnda.  Diolch yn fawr
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: nestagj on Monday 25 February 19 08:56 GMT (UK)
My pleasure
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: EmyrBorth on Thursday 28 February 19 18:21 GMT (UK)
Hi
As I said to you in PM, had been to Cemetery but failed to find the grave. There is a small Baptist cemetery in Garndolbenmaen with just a few graves, you have to climb a wall to get into it so I only looked at the ones near enough to read from outside.
Been to Caernarfon this afternoon and looked at microfiche copy of the MIs for both. Ellen is buried in the parish church (Santes Fair) situated as described by 'nestagj'. There is a plan of the cemetery; I'll call there again and hopefully find the grave.
The inscription only refers to the burial of Ellen - roughly translates:
In loving memory of Ellen Roberts, dear spouse of Robert Roberts, Bron Marlwyd, Garn, who died 10th of February 1902, aged 73 yrs.
The death date 10th might be a mistranscription.
Do you know the name and death/burial details of his first wife ?
Emyr
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 28 February 19 18:40 GMT (UK)
I've found a report of the inquest into Robert Roberts' death, but nothing on his funeral - not sure if you know the details

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4247150/4247157/27/

Appears he fell into the fire, or his clothing caught fire.  You might also be interested in the detail that he built Bron Marlwyd himself, and no-one was sure how he managed to move the very large rocks ha were used

Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Friday 01 March 19 08:26 GMT (UK)
Thank you both for the information, I now need to find my notes on Ellen.  I have been trying to find more about the family for years and posted the Memorial Card on here as I found a scan of it on the pc while looking for something else.  My grandmother had told me many a time that her grandmother had died of shock after being burnt but she never said anything about Robert Roberts.
The inquest report for her grandmother had survived so I will try to find if an inquest was held and if the report has survived.
Thank you all very much.
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: EmyrBorth on Friday 01 March 19 16:06 GMT (UK)
Hi
Been back to cemetery and found the grave.
Death date on stone is 7th.
At bottom of stone says that it was put up by her son M. Jones .
Emyr
 
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 01 March 19 19:20 GMT (UK)
My grandmother had told me many a time that her grandmother had died of shock after being burnt but she never said anything about Robert Roberts.

That does sound remarkably  like the cause of death for Robert.  Sometimes these family stories do get mixed up

The newspaper item summarises the inquest - on the morning a neighbouring farm worker popped in on Robert Roberts as he passed the cottage on the way up the mountain.  He found the old man sat next to the fire comfortably with his dog. Walking back down that evening he heard a dog barking in a heartbreaking manner and crossed the moor to check the cottage. He found Robert Roberts lying dead in the doorway with some of his clothes burnt and some still burning [I guess smouldering] . The dog ran around his master barking and whining. The inquest decided he had either had some kind of attack and fell into the fire, or his clothes caught light,  he managed to walk to the doorway, but died of shock and burns.
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Friday 01 March 19 21:38 GMT (UK)
Mabel Bagshawe thanks for taking an interest, I am finding the coincidence rather odd.
The inquest report that the archives staff in Caernarvon found for me, agreed in every particular with the story my grandmother had told me. Her maternal grandmother died after her clothes caught fire  January 1910.
If my theory is correct Robert Roberts would have been the husband of her paternal grandmother.
Emyr Borth
Thank you very much.  The fact that the stone had been put up by son  M Jones lends more support to my theory that Ellen Roberts  was the Ellen Jones, Ty Newydd, Penmorfa who was recorded as the mother on the birth certificates of Ann, William and Morris Jones.No mention of the father on any of them
 Morris was witness at William's marriage to Jane Lloyd in 1881 and  went to California to grow
oranges in 1893. 
On 1861 census Ann and William are at Ty Newydd but with the surname Morris!!!
On the marriage certificate William uses the surname Griffith and states that father was William Griffith (deceased).
I did not intend to write an essay, but I did want to ask you if you know anything of Ty Newydd, Penmorfa.  I had been told that it was a pub.
Diolch yn fawr i'r ddau ohonoch.

Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 01 March 19 22:23 GMT (UK)

I did not intend to write an essay, but I did want to ask you if you know anything of Ty Newydd, Penmorfa.  I had been told that it was a pub.


This small news item suggests it was some kind of  licensed premises

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4458280/4458286/60/
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 01 March 19 22:26 GMT (UK)
Hadn't appreciated the fire was on the other side of the family. Sadly, such events weren't uncommon - I have a  young child in my tree who died in similar circumstances
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: EmyrBorth on Saturday 02 March 19 10:13 GMT (UK)
Hi
Corrected my last message. Bottom of stone says HER son, not HIS son.
Emyr
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Monday 04 March 19 11:12 GMT (UK)
There goes my theory that Robert was the father of Ellen's children even though he was married to another.  Thought that I might be unearthing a scandal!!  Up to now I have only found these three illegitimate children.
Diolch
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Sunday 10 March 19 17:26 GMT (UK)
Phoned the archives in Caernarvon on Friday.  The report to Robert Robert's inquest has survived.  Waiting for them to send me some forms to request photocopies.  Maybe there might be a little bit of extra information there.  Not holding my breath but it will be good to see it
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: nestagj on Sunday 10 March 19 21:39 GMT (UK)
Good news .... remember to eep us posted
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: EmyrBorth on Monday 18 March 19 15:27 GMT (UK)
Hi
Directions to grave of Ellen Roberts.
Plenty of room to park by main gate to Church/Cemetery. Best to walk down the Cwm Pennant road for about 50 yds and enter the new part of the Cemetery. Take the wide grassy path which runs across to the  wall opposite. About three quarters of the way across it crosses another path at right angles - turn left. To your left is Block E, 5 rows of graves . The grave is in the 4th row and about 8th grave in. However it's best to turn left after the last row and approach from the back. First grave has a stone, then 3 graves without, then a massive red granite memorial, then 3 graves no stones. Looking left into the Block by the third of these, you'll see a slate gravestone with a lot of white lichen on - Ellen's grave.
Emyr
Title: Re: Dolbenmaen Cemetery
Post by: malijibic on Monday 18 March 19 21:16 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much.  We will be coming North for Palm Sunday.
Diolch