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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sueco79 on Saturday 16 February 19 16:33 GMT (UK)
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William Collier married on 24th November 1951 to a Mary Ann Louisa Beckingham (widow) on the marriage certificate the father's name is missing. I know that Mary was born on the 2nd March 1886 and died on 21st September 1972. I have managed to find her on the 1939 census and she is married to John Beckingham. I would really like to find out Mary Ann Louisa's maiden name, any help would be much appreciated.
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Were there any kids still around on the 1939 register?
Im surprised the marriage certificate doesnt give a maiden name.
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What area?
Louisa Maud
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As you have her on 1939 and have their dates of birth, there is This 1911 entry :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7LC-PSD
They are in Berkshire here.
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no children living with them.
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sorry I completely forgot to mention area, they were living in 1939 in hackney and I have been able to find her living at varies places in hackney. I tracked her down on the 1911 as being in Berkshire but that's as far as I have got.
I thought the marriage certificate would of told me her maiden name which was one of the reasons I ordered it, but no it just has a dash in the box
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So the one I found is her - Louisa?
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She is not listed as Mary Ann Louisa on 1939, as you have mentioned 1939, but we are not allowed to give full details from 1939 on here
Louisa Maud
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every thing that I have found her on is Louisa, though the marriage certificate gives her full name
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Q2 1909 Hungerford RD Vol 2c page 587
John Beckingham & Loiue Smith
the 1911 census gives the number of complete years that have been married
Edward
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Why did she not use her supposedly rightful names?
Louisa Maud
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Do you know if there were any children from this marriage?
Does the surname Harris feature within this family ?
Louisa Maud
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I am not aware of any children at this moment and as I have just her name I am not sure if there is a connection or not with Harris.
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I am not aware of any children at this moment and as I have just her name I am not sure if there is a connection or not with Harris.
The Harris connection is on the Beckingham side
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I am just looking into this now
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Marcus [Alfred Marcus Leslie] and William Harris births can be found with mmn Beckingham
1898 - marriage of Jemima Florence Beckingham and Alfred Harris in Luton
Jemima and John can be found as siblings on 1881 census
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this is really good thank you, for all your help. can anyone help with John and Mary Ann Louisa Beckingham, what was her maiden name and did they have any children?
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Between us I don't think we have found her maiden name as yet
Louisa Maud
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Just giving some possibles for births for Mary Ann in 1886
GAZEY, MARY ANN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in COVENTRY Volume 06D Page 517
HAYNES, MARY ANN BENSON MILLERCHIP
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in COVENTRY Volume 06D Page 514
The above is unlikely but is included as it falls in the correct quarter for the birth date given.
TONKS, MARY ANN SWANN
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in COVENTRY Volume 06D Page 505
I'm intrigued by the fact that Mary Gazey's mother's maiden name is Smith. This is the surname that appears on the marriage to John Beckingham.
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Between us I don't think we have found her maiden name as yet
Louisa Maud
See post 9, it is Smith, unless this was marriage no 2
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You can disregard the Gazey Mary, found her in 1911 with her parents still single.
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We can also drop Mary Tonks. Found her married to a William Cleaver in the 1911.
I wonder how accurate Louisa was with her birth date in the 1939 register?
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??? I am at a loss to understand why Edward Scott's eminently sensible suggestion has been ignored - twice! I can't find anything better. ::)
Q2 1909 Hungerford RD Vol 2c page 587
John Beckingham & Louie Smith
the 1911 census gives the number of complete years that have been married
Edward
Between us I don't think we have found her maiden name as yet
Louisa Maud
See post 9, it is Smith, unless this was marriage no 2
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If we take 1886 as being correct for her birth year then Smith would not have been her maiden name.
There are no Mary Ann Louise/Louisa Smith births registered in either the March or June quarters of 1886 for the district of Coventry.
Mary/Louie was 23 when she married John in 1909.
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I wasn't able to find a birth registration that fitted, what I find strange is , why did she not use her rightful names on documents, do we really know she was Mary Ann Louisa?
Louisa Maud
PS, Haven't been able to find her husbands death as yet, if she was a widow he must have died, assumed between 1939 and 1951
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This appears to be John's birth record
BECKINGHAM, JOHN WILLIAM WILTSHIRE
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in MARLBOROUGH Volume 05A Page 79
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Yes GG, that fits in with 1939,
Louisa Maud
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Could this be his death?
Deaths Mar 1943
BECKINGHAM John W 71 Essex S.W. 4a 261
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How about this for John's death?
March qtr 1950
BECKINGHAM John 77 Surrey SW 5G 1007
Carol
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After 1939 I can only find a John but living alone, not sure if it is him though.
I am trying to find her listed as Mary Ann Louisa(Louise)
Louisa Maud
PS 1938 Florida Terrace, Florida St, Hackney/Bethnal Green
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Free Reg have
Annie Louisa Smith baptism 7th March 1886 at Shustoke, Warwickshire.
Parents Edwin and Mary
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58bdeac8f493fdea6841203d?locale=en&search_id=5c691cbe33045b050ea84c63&ucf=false
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What a great find Bevo. Here is the GRO birth registration
SMITH, ANNIE LOUISA BARR
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in MERIDEN UNION Volume 06D Page 442
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This is the family in 1891
Living at Birmingham Road, Shustoke, Meriden, Warwickshire
Registration district Meriden
Archive reference RG12
Piece number 2440
Folio 87
Page 16
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Looks like Annie's father died in 1905
SMITH, EDWIN 61
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in MERIDEN Volume 06D Page 253
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After 1939 I can only find a John but living alone, not sure if it is him though.
I am trying to find her listed as Mary Ann Louisa(Louise)
Louisa Maud
PS 1938 Florida Terrace, Florida St, Hackney/Bethnal Green
If it's the same John and Louisa, they're together at various addresses in Bethnal Green in the 1920s and 30s including 5 Fuller Street, 1 Florida Terrace, and 34 Pollard Row. I can't see her anywhere in London as Mary/Ann/Annie.
Carol
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In 1901 2894/36/6
Annie L Smith 15yrs b Shustoke is with her parents Edwin and Mary J at Church End, Shustoke
Also just to note
1901 2894/39/12
Louie Smith 15 yrs b Coleshill is a servant in Shustoke
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That's an interesting find Heywood.
Annie/Louie registered twice?
Coleshill falls into the Meriden registration district. There is no birth registration that would fit as Louie.
Sueco have you got the marriage certificate for the Beckingham/Smith marriage in 1909 as shown in Edward's reply #9? If not I would suggest you obtain it and see what it says.
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1911 free index
Annie Louisa Smith, 25, born Shustoke
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7BZ-FCM
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Ah Jon that blows that theory out of the water then!
I think Sueco needs to get the marriage certificate for John and Louie in 1909 before we all go off at other tangents. I get the impression that she hasn't got that one, only the later one to William Collier.
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That's an interesting find Heywood.
Annie/Louie registered twice?
Coleshill falls into the Meriden registration district. There is no birth registration that would fit as Louie.
Sueco have you got the marriage certificate for the Beckingham/Smith marriage in 1909 as shown in Edward's reply #9? If not I would suggest you obtain it and see what it says.
No, I thought they are two people because of p o b and Jon has shown that is correct.
I agree re the marriage certificate.
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It was just the name that was interesting - Louie.
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For what it is worth !!
Edwin Smith
to Mary Jane Barr
June qtr 1880
Meriden
Louisa Maud
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1891
RG12/2440 FOLIO 87 PAGE 16
Shustoke
Edwin Smith 46 coachman
Mary Jane 30
Thos Samuel 10
Eva Mary 7
ANNIE L 5
Mary Ann 1
all born Shustoke and all MMN Barr
1901
Edwin 54
Mary Jane 41
Annie L 15
Mary Ann 11
Effie Alice 7
Elsie Jane 4
Lizzie 1
All MMN Barr and born Shustoke
This may or may not be useful
Louisa Maud
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I think we are going to have to wait for Sue to get back to us and see if she agrees to get that 1909 marriage certificate.
Unless someone can find it online with all the details.
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Sorry GG you had already listed 1891.
Mary Jane Smith married Dec qtr 1907
to
Edward Dudley Barber
Meriden
Yes a certificate is needed for 1909
Louisa Maud
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Louisa Maud,
Reply #37 has that Annie L still at home in 1911 which shows she is not the one married to John Beckingham. (I think :). )
Heywood
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Announcement of the marriage in the Faringdon Advertiser, 29 May 1909
OCR text ::)
On the loth iuat
at S. Michael’s, Larobourn, the Rev. R. Ragnall
John Beekingham, to Louisa Smith
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Wow John!!, what a find
Louisa Maud
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Snippet from the paper.
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Would be really helpful if someone could lay their hands on this marriage cert from the ledgers, we can live in hope
Louisa Maud
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Do you know if there were any children from this marriage?
Find a Grave has an inscription at Queens Road Cemetery, Walthamstow
Mary Ann Louisa Collier, died 21 Sep 1972
"loving mum, nan and great grandma"
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186602110
Couldn't find her in the indexes to Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016, on ancestry, but her burial is here (image)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nez/
Died at Whipps X Hospital
Death
Sep 1972 Waltham Forest 5e 870
Collier, Mary Ann L.
d-o-b 2 March 1886
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Snippet from the paper.
That's a lot better than the transcript! Great stuff.
Mary A L Collier is on the electoral registers at 77 Northcote Road, Walthamstow, in 1964 and 1965 (on ancestry's London electoral registers). Is not the only person there.
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Mmm, interesting - Mary has two people with the surname of Barber with her in the electoral roll that you found Jon.
In Reply#44 Louisa Maud posted the marriage record of Mary Smith to Edward Barber.
Descendants of Edward?
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I've found the marriage, I think
June 1934 Bethnal Green 1c 252
Barber, Sydney C. - spouse Pearce or Beckingham
Beckingham, Maud - spouse Barber
Pearce, Faith - spouse Barber
What to make of that?
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I'll have a look later, just about to have lunch. :)
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I think Faith might be an adopted daughter from Hungerford.
Which is nice, but it doesn't get us any further forward with Mary Ann Louisa.
John
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I would first like to say a massive thank you, you are all amazing in try to help in area where I was not progressing.
I am now going to go through all the messages and catch up with what you have found and the suggestions.
Thank you again, I am feeling positive. Just got to digest it all.
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I think this is Faith:-
PEARCE, FAITH -
GRO Reference: 1914 M Quarter in HUNGERFORD Volume 02C Page 514
As you can see, illegitimate
There is a Faith Barber in the 1939 Register, married, with three closed records. Not sure if they are children of hers or evacuees. No sign of Sydney with her.
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I have found that Sydney Barber was born 1911 and he was recorded at living at 5 Fuller Street. I have also found that in 1933 Sydney Barber and his dad James was still living at number 5 and so also was John and Louisa Beckingham.
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After Mary's husband died, she married Edward Barber in 1907. Sydney may well be a descendant of Edward's.
On investigation probably not a direct descendant. It looks as though Edward was a single man when he married Mary. However he appears from earlier census records to have brothers, the 1881 shows three brothers so Sydney may well be a descendant from one of those.