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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Puffin81 on Thursday 14 February 19 18:39 GMT (UK)
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I’m looking for a marriage James Keenan & a Jane. I believe the marriage to have taken place in about 1852 to 1855 in Carlisle
James parents are James and Jane.
They had 3 children born in carlisle that I’m aware of, Jane in late 1852 another daughter Mary, who was possibly a twin to Jane and lastly James in 1858. They then moved to haltwhistle. The odd thing is the only Jane Keenan I can find being born in Carlisle is in 1852, but the 1861 census states she is 6, as is Mary, who I can’t even find a birth record for.
I’m unable to find any record of the marriage, I have checked the parish records and can’t see anything. Nor can I find anything on the marriage register.
I’d appreciate it if someone else could double check
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You mention 3 children, but they have 4 in 1861 (not yet looked later than that).
The youngest is Margaret, 1 b Brampton:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEAL, Mar qtr 1860 Brampton.
She died Jun qtr 1861 Haltwhistle, aged 1.
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Earlier children:
Jane Keenan, mmn O Neill, Dec qtr 1852 Carlisle
James Keenan, mmn O Neill, Mar qtr 1855 Carlisle
James Keenan, mmn O Neill, Sep qtr 1857 Carlisle
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Later twins:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Mary Ann Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
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from GRO
Jane Keenan DQ 1852 Carlisle 10B 341 MMN O'Neill
James Keenan SQ 1857 Carlisle 10B 352 MMN O'Neill
James Keenan DQ 1859 10B 367 MMN O'Neill
John Keenan JQ 1862 Carlisle 10B 437 MMN O'Neill
Looks like there may be more than one Keenan/O'Neill couple
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James & Jane both born Ireland, per 1861, so may have married there. They would have been very young when Jane jnr was born (if the 1852 birth reg is hers).
James’s sister may be Mary McCluskey, next door in 1861. Jane Keenan, mother in law, is in her household.
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Gro has deaths in Haltwhistle for Margaret Keenan age 1 and Mary Keenan age 6 in 1861 ( There is also a possible death for mother Jane in 1865). James seems to have " remarried" by 1871.
Family search has this baptism in1864:
Joannes Keenan baptised 7 Aug 1864 Haltwhistle Parents Jacobii Keenan and Joannae O'Neil Keenan.This suggests they were RC.
William
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You mention 3 children, but they have 4 in 1861 (not yet looked later than that).
The youngest is Margaret, 1 b Brampton:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEAL, Mar qtr 1860 Brampton.
She died Jun qtr 1861 Haltwhistle, aged 1.
Yes that’s right, I’ve ignored Margaret for now, as she wasn’t born in Carlisle.
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from GRO
Jane Keenan DQ 1852 Carlisle 10B 341 MMN O'Neill
James Keenan SQ 1857 Carlisle 10B 352 MMN O'Neill
James Keenan DQ 1859 10B 367 MMN O'Neill
John Keenan JQ 1862 Carlisle 10B 437 MMN O'Neill
Looks like there may be more than one Keenan/O'Neill couple
You have to to be kidding me, I’m sure this section of my tree are almost inbreeds.
I think the 1852 one looks ok date wise, but the name is the wrong way round unless it’s a typo or Jane kept her name
What does the SQ, DQ & jQ mean?
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Later twins:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Mary Ann Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Thanks, I hadn’t found that, looks like she was Jane oneill.
The other strange thing is Margaret seems to appear with the family in the 1861 census, but obviously she can’t as she wasn’t born yet and is a twin
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Later twins:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Mary Ann Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Thanks, I hadn’t found that, looks like she was Jane oneill.
The other strange thing is Margaret seems to appear with the family in the 1861 census, but obviously she can’t as she wasn’t born yet and is a twin
Update, it looks like the original Margaret was born in abt 1860 and died as an infant, the twin Margaret is Margaret the 2nd ???
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Later twins:
Margaret Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Mary Ann Keenan, mmn ONEIL, Mar qtr 1862 Haltwhistle
Thanks, I hadn’t found that, looks like she was Jane oneill.
The other strange thing is Margaret seems to appear with the family in the 1861 census, but obviously she can’t as she wasn’t born yet and is a twin
Update, it looks like the original Margaret was born in abt 1860 and died as an infant, the twin Margaret is Margaret the 2nd ???
Is this the family 1871
James Keenan Head M 37 Ireland
Mary Keenan Wife F 36 Ireland
James Keenan Son M 13 Carlisle, Cumberland
Margaret Keenan Daughter F 9 Haltwhistle, Northumberland
Mary Annie Keenan Daughter F 9 Haltwhistle, Northumberland
Robert Keenan Son M 7 Haltwhistle, Northumberland
John Hammel Stepson M 13 Scotland
Patrick Hammel Stepson M 11 Scotland
Patrick Kerney Lodger 70
RG10; Piece: 5154; Folio: 29; Page: 51
Their marriage entry
Registration Year: 1868
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Hexham
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 450
Name
Hannah Green
Mary Hammell
James Keenan
Jane Turnbull
Possible first marriage for Mary
Mary Cairney
Marriage Date: 3 May 1857
Marriage Place: Annan,Dumfries,Scotland
Spouse: Isaac Hamel
Patrick Hamel
Birth Date: 5 Apr 1860
Birth Place: Annan,Dumfries,Scotland
Father: Isaac Hamel
Mother: Mary Carney
Name: Mary Carney
Spouse: Isaac Hamel
Child: John Hamel
1861c RG 9; Piece: 3866; Folio: 16; Page: 26
Isaac Harriel 30
Mary Harriel 26
John Harriel 3
Patrick Harriel 1
Patrick Carnie 58
Michael Oniell 38 lodger
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Do you think this might be James Keenan on
1851 HO107; Piece: 2429; Folio: 196; Page: 29
Jane Kinn 52
James Kinn 16
Bartholomew Kinn 13
It looks as if Batholomew’s surname is Keenan on 1871 census
RG10; Piece: 5217; Folio: 22; Page: 35
and also their mother Jane on 1861 with the McCluskey’s as mentioned by avm
RG 9; Piece: 3866; Folio: 13; Page: 20
Sorry have not found a marriage for James Kinn/Keenan to Jane O’Neil ???
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Yes to both of your posts, the Jane I’m looking for getting married, died and he re married
I’m thinking that the marriage in 1855 might be the one that matches my couple and I need to find another birth record for daughter Jane.
Or maybe they married in the brides parish, which could have been anywhere
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It appears that there maybe more than one Keenan/O'Neill marriage and maybe even more than 2, and also that they are likely to be Catholic. If the children were baptised, then viewing the Catholic records for Carlisle might be able to answer your questions, or least give clue, providing of course that all the Keenan/O'Neill marriages were not between a James and a Jane!!
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It appears that there maybe more than one Keenan/O'Neill marriage and maybe even more than 2, and also that they are likely to be Catholic. If the children were baptised, then viewing the Catholic records for Carlisle might be able to answer your questions, or least give clue, providing of course that all the Keenan/O'Neill marriages were not between a James and a Jane!!
I’ve checked up until 1853, and there was nothing. I’m thinking the Jane dob record could be a red herring
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I find it odd only the haltwhistle kids have baptism records, unless they haven’t been subscribed.
It’s also odd how it looks like there are a fed Keenan’s and O’Neil’s marrying but I can’t find Them.
I’ll revisit this tomorrow, the marriage shouldn’t be this difficult to find, if it exists.
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I find it odd only the haltwhistle kids have baptism records, unless they haven’t been subscribed.
It’s also odd how it looks like there are a fed Keenan’s and O’Neil’s marrying but I can’t find Them.
I’ll revisit this tomorrow, the marriage shouldn’t be this difficult to find, if it exists.
I'm not sure the records for the catholic church in Carlisle are transcribed. There was only one catholic church in 1850's. I did a look up for someone for this church at the archives a while ago because they couldn't find them online.
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I find it odd only the haltwhistle kids have baptism records, unless they haven’t been subscribed.
It’s also odd how it looks like there are a fed Keenan’s and O’Neil’s marrying but I can’t find Them.
I’ll revisit this tomorrow, the marriage shouldn’t be this difficult to find, if it exists.
I'm not sure the records for the catholic church in Carlisle are transcribed. There was only one catholic church in 1850's. I did a look up for someone for this church at the archives a while ago because they couldn't find them online.
I couldn’t find anything but I think I was looking too early.
It doesn’t help how this family repeats names 🤦♀️
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Its strange that there is no birth for Mary no 1 but there's a death registration, makes you wonder if Jane and Mary weren't registered at all, but then if you've checked the original church records it doesn't look as if they were baptised either, unless its was later than the dates you checked.
If Mary no 1 was Jane's twin, then Jane and James must have had 3 sets of twins as it looks like Robert had a twin brother as well!
Also in Ladyhawks post regarding the Mary who married James in 1860's, if its the right family - the lodger was called O'Neill - another relative!!!?
If Jane was an O'Neill is it possible that she's Bridget's (Batholomew's wife) sister?
Theres a James Keenhan marries a Jane Keenan in June 1868, could this be Jane Jnr, although she would only be 16 if the 1852 birth is the right one
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Its strange that there is no birth for Mary no 1 but there's a death registration, makes you wonder if Jane and Mary weren't registered at all, but then if you've checked the original church records it doesn't look as if they were baptised either, unless its was later than the dates you checked.
If Mary no 1 was Jane's twin, then Jane and James must have had 3 sets of twins as it looks like Robert had a twin brother as well!
Also in Ladyhawks post regarding the Mary who married James in 1860's, if its the right family - the lodger was called O'Neill - another relative!!!?
If Jane was an O'Neill is it possible that she's Bridget's (Batholomew's wife) sister?
Theres a James Keenhan marries a Jane Keenan in June 1868, could this be Jane Jnr, although she would only be 16 if the 1852 birth is the right one
It’s strange I can’t find the births for the early children, or the marriage. The family’s definitely seem to interlink, I was wondering if Jane might be Bridget’s sister, but I can’t find Bridget with 100% certainly before she married bartholomew.
I’ve ordered janes death certificate in the hope it may give us a clue
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When checking the catholic records for other half's McDermonds (or any other spelling you can think of!) I came across a record for a Mary Keenan. I took the details just in case.
Mary Keenan born 30/12/1854, baptised 7/1/1855 parents James and Jane, address: Kings Arms Lane. Godparents Bartholomew Keenan & Jane Keenan.
A little further back was Jane Keenan, born 21/11/1852, baptised 5/12/1852, parents James Keenan and Jane O'Neill, address Kings Arms Lane. Godparents William McCluskey and Mary Keenan.
Could be your Jane and Mary?
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When checking the catholic records for other half's McDermonds (or any other spelling you can think of!) I came across a record for a Mary Keenan. I took the details just in case.
Mary Keenan born 30/12/1854, baptised 7/1/1855
parents James and Jane, address: Kings Arms Lane.
Godparents Bartholomew Keenan & Jane Keenan.
A little further back was Jane Keenan, born 21/11/1852, baptised 5/12/1852,
parents James Keenan and Jane O'Neill, address Kings Arms Lane.
Godparents William McCluskey and Mary Keenan.
Could be your Jane and Mary?
James & Jane both born Ireland, per 1861, so may have married there. They would have been very young when Jane jnr was born (if the 1852 birth reg is hers).
James’s sister may be Mary McCluskey, next door in 1861. Jane Keenan, mother in law, is in her household.
Well found Gan Yam that could be Mary & Jane Keenan, there is a Bartholomew & James Kinn (Keenan) brothers on 1851 census with mother Jane and mention of the surname McCluskey by avm on 1861 census RG 9; Piece: 3866; Folio: 13; Page: 20
Mary (Keenan) is married to a William McCluskey and have three children named Jane bn Ireland, John & James both bn Cumberland
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Hi:
I haven't been on this site in ages.
My Keenan's lived in Gilcrux/Carlisle as my gr gr grandmother, Elizabeth McKenzie, was from Carlisle.
My gr gr gr grandparents were Felix Keenan and Sarah (McQuoid) Keenan and they eventually settled near Cockermouth. Felix had a sister, Mary/Maria; b. 1799; IRL who also appears in Gilcrux 1861 census. At that time, she was listed as Maria Collins. She also appears in the 1871 Gilcrux census as same. Not sure if this is pertinent to this thread but on the off chance...
Best regards from Western NY
Chuck