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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: 1803Emirates on Wednesday 06 February 19 06:12 GMT (UK)
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hi all,
i am researching Henry Jones as above.
i am trying to find the death of his son william who was also a ship builder understood to have died 1883 but this is not confirmed.
Henry also had a daughter catherine born 1821 who was married to Cpt david Roberts he died 1849
at limerick of cholera.
the trinity house petition on the welsh mariners index notes that catherine then lived with her grandfather in the 1861 census.
her son william was born in 1844 and was a sailmaker he was also known as Gwliym Eryri a well known welsh poet he is believed to have died around 1894 but not confirmed.
i have just read the book Pothmadog Ships by Emrys hughes and it seems there is some confusion between the 2 williams, or possibly i am confused, i am hoping more about the family has come about since its print.
if anyone is able to shed more light on this family i would really appreciate it.
i have tried the welsh papers using my google translater but feel i must be missing pieces of the puzzle as i dont speak welsh.
i am all at sea with this family as they say!
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https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4510972/4510977/45/
Could this be him,
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Henry also had a daughter catherine born 1821 -
the trinity house petition on the welsh mariners index notes that catherine then lived with her grandfather in the 1861 census.
her son william was born in 1844 and was a sailmaker he was also known as Gwliym Eryri a well known welsh poet he is believed to have died around 1894 but not confirmed.
Henry appears in census 1861 with daughter Catherine & her children (including William bn c1844)
RG09/4327 f33 p17
Lambard Street, Ynyscynhaiarn, Ffestiniog, Caernarvonshire
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I think a snippet of the following suggests he had another son,J.H. Jones
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4268883/4268888/9/
Regards
Roger
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Thank you,
Yes I would think the 1 st article regarding the sale of his ships was settling his affairs after his death in 1861.
I did have a John Jones born 1811 Harlech down as a son, so will lock that in as JH Jones more than likely John Henry Jones.
In the 1851 census he is listed as a cooper and married to jennet.
That is the right Henry Jones living with his dau Catherine at Lombard st
And with his grandchildren.
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I think this is likely to be J H Jones
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nd0/
Roger
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A snippet regarding Henry's burial
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nd9/
Roger
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Thanks Roger
I found Henry's death notice stating he died 30/11/1861 aged 82 yrs
But I would have thought the newspaper would of reported on the flotilla going to Harlech.
I will keep looking.
Regarding his son J H Jones his mother should be Catherine so I have doubts on the baptism in Pen Lan. I notice there is a John Humphries Jones who was a solicitor of Portmadoc, so at this stage I think I should not speculate on what the H stands for.
Interesting article in the North Wales Chronicle 14/08/1875 states that in the list of electors 252 to vote for a knight of carnarvonshire the name Jones appears 68 times and John Jones 28
whew!
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I think I have the right family in 1841 and 1851,both times living in Lombard Street,Ynyscynhaiarn,with Henry's wife given as Margaret(and a daughter of that name as well)
1841 HO107/1391/10/41/30
1851 HO107/2512/549/51
In the grant of letters of administration of his will,William is described as"one of the children of.."
I have not yet been able to to find a full copy of the will(NLW finishes at 1858).
Roger
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Hi
Found the family in 1841 thro' to 1871. One of the links by another Rootschatter gives place of burial as Capel Uchaf (now Rehoboth), Harlech. Margaret was Henry's second wife according to inscription. First wife Catherine. Master Mariner John Jones was Henry Jones' eldest son by his first wife Catherine. He lost his life when his ship went down in Bristol Channel during a severe storm.
No time for more now.
Emyr
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Here is an announcement of the sale,by auction,of his vessels in The Australia Inn,Portmadoc,dated December 1861.
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4510963/4510964/1/
A later snippet said the "True Love" went for £500-"a bargain".
Roger
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Thank you both
That is my Henry for sure lst married Catherine Williams ?
Then margaret
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Catherine Williams marriage:-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ndt/
Roger
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Hi
Some of the information below has already been mentioned by others:
Marriage, Llandanwg, Merionethshire, 25/12/1819, Henry Jones of Llanfihangel y Traethau, Bachelor TO Catherine Williams of Llandanwg, Spinster, By Licence, With consent of parents (this suggests one or both were under 21, but every marriage in the Parish for about 5 yrs before & after say this !). Witnesses: Robert Thomas & John Thomas).
Baptism, Ll y Tr, 17/02/1822 John, son of Henry Jones, Careg y Row, Ships Carpenter and Catherine his wife.
Baptism, Ll y Tr, 05/08/1823, William, son of Henry Jones, Cae'r Gro, Ships Carpenter and Catherine his wife.
Can't find Baptism of their daughter Catherine. Birth c. 1821 according to Censuses and MI.
Burial, Llandanwg, 06/08/1823, Catherine Williams, Careg y ro. Aged 41 (At this time wives would have been known by their maiden name, but often recorded in records by their husbands' surname. Careg y ro is in Ll y Tr and the abode in the 2 baptism records are obviously corrution/misspelling. The name appears on the current 1:25000 OS Map, and there is a record of ships being built near it.)
Marriage, Ll y Tr, 25/11/1825, Henry Jones of Ll y Tr, Widower TO Margaret Williams of Ll y Tr, Spinster, By Banns, with consent of those required by law. Witnesses: John Jones and Richard Roberts.
1841 Census at Holborn St (later renamed Lombard St), Portmadoc, Caernarvonshire: Harry Jones ,55-59, Ships Carpenter, born in County; Marged Jones, 55-59 and William Jones 15-19, both not born in County. Also Female Servant and 5 possibly Henry's employees in shipyard.
Marriage, Ynyscynhaiarn, Caernarvonshire, 04/06/1839, David Roberts, full age, Bachelor, Mariner, Gwernddwyryd parish of Penmorfa, father Owen Roberts, Farmer TO Catherine Jones, Minor, Spinster - ---, Clogyberth (part of Portmadoc) in this Parish, father Henry Jones, Ships Carpenter.
1841 Census at London Road (later renamed High Street) Portmadoc: Catherine Roberts, 20-24, (can't decipher employment, and Henry aged 1, both born in County, plus Female Servant.
Death 08/03/1849, Capt David Roberts of the ship Henry & Margaret, of cholera, at Limerick, aged 35. Article in Gwreiddiau Gwynedd, 2002 No.4 p.3, 'A Morning in Limerick' by John Pilling. (Info from Achau – T Ceiri Griffith.)
Census 1851, Holborn St (later renamed Lombard St): Henry Jones, Married 69, Ship building & sailmaker – employing 18 men. b. Caernarvonshire, Pwllheli : Margaret, Wife, 69 ; b. Merionethshire, Harlech; Catherine Roberts, dau. Widow, 30, Formerly Master Mariner's wife, b. Harlech; Grandsons – Henry J 11, Owen 9 , William 7 , David 2 , Granddaughter – Margaret 4 , all born Portmadoc, Caernarvonshire (not Merioneth as on form), plus servant and shipyard employees.
Death: Margaret, wife of Henry Jones 28/12/1856. Buried Rehoboth (Capel Uchaf), Harlech (Scotch Baptist).
More to follow. Hopefully I,ve put down the above without error. If there's an error, please point it out.
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Emyr,
Sorry for my delayed response and a very big thank you.
I have nearly finished reading Immortal Sails by Henry Hughes and what a delightful book. He credits Henry jones grandson Capt David Roberts of the Annie Lloyd (did more to thrill me and fill me with the desire to become a sailor and see the world than possibly anyone else)and continues on with a wonderful description of him.
I have unable to tap into other families on this site investigating this family.
I look forward to any thing further you may have found when you have time.
Cheers
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Hi
What is your relation to this family ?
I've got lots of info ready to put together and post. Censuses up to 1901. Reports of birth/death/marriage in Wales, England, USA, Rio de Janeiro and Belgium (World War1).
A friend of mine has written an article (in Welsh) about Gwilym Eryri, who was a sail maker, first in his father's business and then, after father's death, in his own business - and has an invoice for work done by G.E.
G.E. disappeared about 1896, and was last seen by another poet, pseudonym Meiriadog, in Llanfair Caereinion.
There were 2 poets using the name Gwilym Eryri, William Roberts, Portmadoc and William E Powell, USA, originally from Beddgelert area.
Been busy and will be so for 2 -3 days - will put something together next week.
Emyr
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Hi Emyr
I am researching this family on behalf of a dear friend who is the great grand dau of Owen Roberts 3rd son of David and Catherine Roberts.
He was the chief officer on the Castle Carrick immigration ship arriving in The Bluff NZ on the 13/07/1874 he married Mary Alice Lyons who he met on the ship in NZ on 28/07/1874 At Invercargill. they moved to Newcastle New South Wales Australia. Owen Roberts and a young dau died at sea when Owen was Capt of the Niagara taking a load of coal from Newcastle to Noumea 1889.
A small problem I have is that when I ordered a print out of his marriage in NZ it does not state the name of his parents so i am still trying to work out if an original would sort this out.
I can see 2 Owen roberts born to David and Catherine jones,
1 bpt 15/08/1841 Penmorfa and the other 26/07/1843 Llaneblig
Not sure what that means yet.
I was hoping that all the other siblings boys would indicate which was right but that doesn’t seem to be happening.
Cheers k
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Just another snippet. From Pigot & Co's National Commercial Directory for 1835. Tre-Madoc & Port Madoc: Ship Builder: Henry Jones, Tre-Madoc.
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Hi
Llanbeblig is Caernarvon, 20mls from Portmadoc. David/Catherine wedding entry gives address of David as Gwernddwyryd, Penmorfa (less than a mile from where I live). Baptism record gives father's occupation as Mariner, and residence, Portmadoc. So the Penmorfa one is the correct one.
David's parents are buried at Penmorfa, Jane d. 27/06/1854 age 81, and Owen Roberts, date/ age not given in Monument Inscription (MI) booklet. Also a son Owen d.09/10/1835 age 23.
Family moved to Gwernddwyryd in 1826. Book of family trees 'Achau ....." by T Ceiri Griffith, [152] bottom, follows family back 5 generations. Gives David Roberts jnr's (b 1849 d.1917) ship as the Annie Lloyd.
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Emyr
Thank you so much.
I have found Owen and Jane in the 1851 census so have found a sister
And possible another 2 brothers in the 1841 census though doesn’t state relationships as we know.
I have Capt David Roberts of the Annie Lloyd sorted and his oldest brother Henry who married in Ballarat NSW Australia returned to live in London, his 3 children never married , late in life he was caretaker for many years at the welsh chapel in Fann st London
Best wishes k
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Sorry to be so late to the party, but I only googled Henry Jones today and found this thread. (I've also just signed up to RC to join in, so also excuse any breaches of protocol.)
William Roberts/Gwilym Eryri is my great-grandfather, so I can share a bit of extra info about him and his son Evan (my gf) and the fate of our branch of the Jones/Roberts family. I'm very interested in the article Emyr mentioned and anything else on that subject. Plus of course all info about Henry and Capt David Roberts.
I was in Wales (from Australia) in June and found what I take to be the record of Henry's birth in the Pwllheli parish register. He's listed as Harry, son of "John Jones (ship's carpenter) and Elinor his wife" and the date is October 12th 1781 rather than 1782. Make sense? It fits with his age and birthplace as listed in the 1841 census.
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Hi
Henry Jones was aged 79 Census night 7/8th April 1861 and was 80 when he died on 23d November 1861, so was born April 1781 - November 1781. So there's a good chance that the BAPTISM record you've found is correct as the father was a ship's carpenter.
Emyr
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Hi Tom and emyrs
Tom never to late to join the party
Am so thrilled to see your post.
I was struggling with your g father Evan.
Since my last post I have found Mary’s death and her last four children.
I am just out of Port headland heading to Broome doing the Grey Nomad gig so internet dropping in and out. I will send a private message when I can so we can catch up . I am so excited to swap info
Best wishes k
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Great news. I just wish I'd seen the thread before I was in Port, Caernarfon and Manchester (where the family moved after WR/GE either died or ran off to Canada) in June. But if you get in touch I can send you a scan of the Pwllheli PR entry and some other stuff. I also found some Lloyd's Register paperwork on the barque Henry Jones yesterday, which is an interesting sidelight. I couldn't get the link-shrinker to work for me, so here's the whole thing: https://hec.lrfoundation.org.uk/archive-library/documents/lrf-pun-barbwk38-0187-r-henry-jones-1850
Fingers crossed EmyrBorth sees this too and we can get on the trail of that Gwilym Eryri article. The librarian at Port dug out his entry in Hanes Porthmadog for me, but I'm guessing you know about that.
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Sorry, Emyr, somehow managed to miss your reply till now. Correction noted. Yes, I thought the carpentry connection was the clincher. Is the article you mentioned readily accessible?
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Hi Tom
Are you on ancestry.com
Karen
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No, I'm not. I've only just got into investigating beyond what I've known for decades – largely because I was at a loose end in N Wales while my beloved was at a conference in Bangor.
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i would once again like to ask for help with this family.
Capt David Roberts of the "Annie Loyd" who married Sarah Evans was the grandson of Henry jones first ship builder portmadoc.
Capt David Roberts and Sarah Evans had a son David Roberts who in the 1891 census was born 27/12/1873 at Portmadoc. he was listed as an apprentice engine maker
i am unable to find him in the 1901 or 1911 census.
his fathers death notice states states he is a marine engineer at 127 high st Portmadoc.
1939 census shows him at 3 Marine Terrace a retired marine engineer and local fuel overseer.
he is listed as a widower, at the same address is an Ann Roberts single born 20/04/1910 who i assume is his dau.
i would love to find a marriage,or death date or any info for this David roberts.
any help would be most appreciated.
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Good and Bad news. Capt David Roberts appears in the Welsh Mariner's Index
ROBERTS David born Porthmadog 1873 Cert No. CC30960 Capacities 2e95 1e98 Kew Ref. 139/16
With this information I expected it to be fairly straightforward to find the his 2nd engineer certificate obtained in 1895 and his 1st engineer certificate obtained in 1898 in Ancestry's All UK and Ireland, Masters and Mates Certificates 1850-1927. Maybe Ancestry don't carry Engineers Certificates.
Glyn
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127 High St appears to have been the residence of his father in law. there's a death notice from 1919 for David Rowland Thomas, tailor and draper of that address, dearly beloved father of Mrs David Roberts (nee M E Thomas)
She and David Roberts married in 1903. She was presented with an inscribed silver salver by the congregation of Ebenezer Wesleyan chapel, where she was organist, to mark the happy event. Her post marriage address was mentioned as Tanybryn
Suggestion for the marriage
Jun 1903 Bangor 11b 856
Hughes Ellen Jane
Owen Richard
Roberts David <<<
Thomas Mary Elizabeth <<<
Mary Elizabeth Roberts was one of the executors of David Rowland Thomas
family on 1911 - including young Anne
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JD-1VR
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There is a gravestone in Moel y Gest Cemetery for David and his Wife child. Here is the Welsh transcription:
Er serchus gof am / MARY ELIZABETH ROBERTS / Anwyl briod DAVID ROBERTS / 127 High St. Portmadoc / A fu farw 29ain Ebrill, 1928 / 53ml oed. / Hefyd, am ei baban MARY ELIZABETH / A fu farw 7fed Ebrill, 1918 / 9 wythnos oed / Hefyd, am yr uchod DAVID ROBERTS / A fu farw 9fed Tachwedd, 1945 / 71 ml. oed.
Basically the translation is Mary Elizabeth Roberts beloved wife of David Roberts 127 High Street Portmadocwho died 29th April 1928 aged 53 years old. Also her baby Mary Elizabeth who died 7th April 1918 9 weeks old. Also David Roberts who died 9th November 1945 aged 71 years old.
Glyn
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Would this be your chap?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8084527
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It would be interesting to work out why Mrs Roberts was at this event
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3413915/3413922/92/
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Thank you Glyn and Mabel.
Awesome work! All of the above is correct and falling into place.
I have just found the marriage notice for David and Mary Elizabeth which confirms he is the son of Capt David Roberts of the “Annie Loyd”
I assume that is his war record on discovery looking at the preview I don’t think there is much more info on it.
The newspaper article from Dartmouth interesting perhaps David Roberts was also on that ship as a marine engineer, his mother was Sarah Evans there maybe a connection there.
I will look into it further,
Thanks again😀🍾
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Hi
Had message that a reply has been received whilst I was typing below. Posting this and will look at the reply afterwards in case I mess up and lose what I've already typed.
Found the grave inscription in GFHS M081 pt. 1, MOEL Y GEST. Was going to Porthmadog early yesterday evening and visited the cemetery to check the accuracy of the transcription. It is correct, but your year Glynm for Mary Elizabeth jnr's death is incorrect - should read 1916 not 1918. Unfortunately the "6's" in the booklet are hardly distinguishable from the "8's". I've checked another source which confirms burial date 10/04/1916 - daughter of David Roberts, 127 High St., Marine Engineer. This other source also gives address of David Roberts at time of death in 1945 as 3 Marine Tce - see 1803 Emirates reply.
As Mabel Bagshawe says, family were living with wife's parents in 1911 Census - David not there as he was probably at sea. Wife same address 1901 - Mary E Thomas. Had a look at the newspaper re. Capt Thomas Evans presentation - can't find any connection to 'Mrs David Roberts'. Capt Evans lost his life at sea 01/08/1918 when the North Cambrian was in collision with another ship. Thanks for providing a link to the N.A. site - I have difficulty sometimes with searches on that site. At the moment, because there's a limit to the number of people allowed at the N.A. at Kew, you can downlead up to 50 records in a period of 30 days free of charge. Have downloaded - address medals were sent to is 127 High St., so is the correct one. Agree with you re. marriage. I tend to look up Free BMD first to find possible matches, then look up North Wales BMD as it gives the actual partners not just the list of persons on the page. It also says whether the marriage was a civil or 'church' - if 'church' it names it and you can get extra info from the parish register.
Emyr
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Hi
Forgot to mention - Mary E Thomas/Roberts' parents are buried in the next grave to her.
Ann Thomas, 127 High St. d. 20/06/1910 aged 71
D R Thomas 31/03/1919 aged 76 (transcribed), 75 (on gravestone), other source 75.
Emyr
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Thanks again everyone.
I had been going around in circles on David’s marriage to Mary Elizabeth Thomas because a wedding photo uploaded of his brother’s wedding in 1904 had her name down as Mary Ellen Roberts, so now we have confirmed her to be Mary Elizabeth.
They married at St Paul’s Wesleyan Chapel Bangor and left for there honeymoon to the south of England so David was then probably headed to Dartmouth.
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CPT Thomas Evans was the brother of Sarah Evans Wife of CPT David Roberts of the Annie Lloyd. He was born in 1862 and as we no died at sea when the SS North Cambrian had a collision, he lived at 19 Snowden st Portmadoc.
Welsh Mariners index also shows he had worked on the Annie Lloyd
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Hi everyone. I have just realised a coincidence which has no bearing on the subject in hand . From Mabel Bagshawe's researches I note that Mary Elizabeth was an organist at Ebeneser Wesleyan chapel. My Grandparents retired back to Snowdon Street, Porthmadog in the early 1950's. My Nain Jennie Jones nee Thomas was also an organist at at the same chapel.
Glyn
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Hi all
I wondered does anyone have MI’s for Rehoboth Chapel Harlech.
I am looking for Catherine Lloyd died 17/09/1891 also possibly her husband John Lloyd who died between 1866 and 1871
Thank you
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Hi, my wife and I have just caught up with this thread whilst researching the Lloyd family of Cwm Bychan from whom she is descended. Catherine Roberts (the daughter of Henry Jones) married John Robert Lloyd (1826-1911) in December quarter 1866. She was his second wife, and his first wife (Catherine Thomas of Penycerrig, Llandanwg) had given him 10 children in 16 years. In 1870 John Robert Lloyd emigrated to Kansas, USA, with a third 'wife', Grace Jones, leaving Catherine, described as a widow in the 1871 census, to look after his first wife's children. There is a possible third marriage in Missouri in 1890 for John and Grace. Grace bore John Robert Lloyd 12 children, and there is an extensive article on the family by Dr Lewis Lloyd in the Journal of the Merioneth Historical and Record Society, Volume 7, Part 3 (1975) and a follow up in Part 4 in 1976.
The MI for Rehoboth (Grave C032) is as follows.
Er cof mai yma y claddwyd / Margaret / gwraig Harri Jones o Borth Madawg / Saer llongau / yr hon a fu farw Rhagfyr yr 28ain 1856 / yn 74 mlwydd oed. / Hefyd y claddwyd y dywededig uchod / Harri Jones / yr hwn a fu farw y 23 o Dachwedd 1861 / yn 80 mlwydd oed. / Also to the memory of / John Jones, master mariner / eldest son of the above mentioned / Harri Jones by Catherine his first wife / who was lost in a storm near / Coldy Road, Bristol Channel on the 10th day of May 1870 / aged 48 years. / Part of the vessel was foud under / the Cliff Rock. / And likewise to the memory of / Henry Jones, Mariner, eldest sone / of the above mentioned John Jones / and Catherine his wife, died on his passage / from Liverpool: in lat. 2.5. N. Long. 23.12W / on the 18th day of March 1871, / aged 20 years
O dir a mor daw'r meirwon
Daw pob cnawd ddydd brawd ger bron
Hefyd er serchus gof am Catherine Lloyd / merch yr Harri Jones uchod / Bu farw Medi 17, 1891 yn 70 oed. / Wele myfi a'th burais, ond nid fel arian / Dewisais di mewn pair cystudd
Translated =
In remembrance that here is buried Margaret, wife of Harri Jones of Porthmadog, shipbuilder, who died Dec 28th 1856 at the age of 74. Also buried is the above mentioned Harri Jones who died 23rd of November 1861 at the age of 80. Also in loving memory of Catherine Lloyd, daughter of the above mentioned Harri Jones who died Sept 17, 1891 at the age of 70.
Hope this helps
Davyth
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Tx Davyth
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Hello one and all! This is my first post but I have learnt a great deal from following this thread - so thanks to all the contributors. I have been researching this family for many years and am currently trying to put my discoveries in some kind of order. To help with that I was wondering if anyone had a photo of the Jones family memorial inscription at Rehoboth, Harlech and/or any photographs of the family, particularly of Henry Jones or his daughter, Catherine, that they would be willing to share. Having died in 1860 I know that a photo of H.J. is unlikely to turn up.
Many thanks and best regards,
Tom
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Hi Tom75,
I have only just noticed your post on this thread, as in the past I have received a notification of a reply but not this time.
I started this thread sometime ago and am glad you have found it useful.
I am wondering if you are part of the wider Jones/Roberts family.
After your 2nd post you are able to reply by personal private message if you prefer.