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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: izzycurran on Tuesday 05 February 19 14:58 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am new here so forgive me if I am posting this wrong. I am trying to find out what happened to my Grandmother. Her name was Jane Ann Thomson, she was born in Longside in 1879. She married my Grandfather James Skelton in Old Macher Aberdeenshire in 1907. I have them on the 1901 & 1911 census living in Burnhaven. I can’t find a death certificate for her or my Grandfather. One of her children was born in 1911 and died in 1914. On the death certificate under my Grandmothers name it states she was deceased. Certificate signed by my Grandfather. Any help will be very much appreciated.
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Welcome to Rootschat
There is an exact match for her age in 1914 but the RD was Plantation which was Glasgow area
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Thank you so much for replying. Unfortunately I have researched this family in Plantation and although the names match and the date of birth is correct they aren’t related to my Skeltons. Thank you anyway for your help. regards Izzy
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Welcome to Rootschat from me too.
You have discounted the Skeltons in Plantation as suggested by CaroleW.
Could you possibly give us a little more information on the family you are trying to find.
What was the name of the child who died in 1914 and place of death? Names, dates and places of birth of other children born to Jane Ann and James Skilton.
This may help us, thanks.
Dorrie
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Suspect this is the child who died
Alice Skelton aged 2 1914 ref 232/ 1 104 Peterhead
Her name was Jane Ann Thomson,
1907 marriage shows her only as Jane
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There is a Jane Skelton's death,also registered in Plantation, in 1914. Her age is shown as 35.
Regards,
flst
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Hi flst - see replies 1 & 2 above - already found and discounted
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Carole, I did read about her discounting that child. There was no mention in the original post about the death of Jane Skelton in 1914. I note in the 1901 census that Jane is living with her father at 25 Marischal Street, Peterhead. She has an illegitimate child, Bella, aged under one month, born 1901. She has another child, a son, registered as being born at that address in 1906.(He died 1974) James Skelton, the father, has given his address as 2 Low Street, Burnhaven. As James was a fireman (I am presuming with the railway) he could have travelled further afield.
flst
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I have not looked at the images of the 1911 census but the index only shows James Skelton aged 26, & his 4 year old son together, in Peterhead. Could Jane have died between 1907 & 11? Izzycurran, you said you'd seen the 1911 census. Does your grandfather say he's a widower?
flst
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Opening post says a child was born in 1911 who died 1914 which puts Jane’s death between the date of birth of that child and date childs death was registered
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Thank you for all your kind welcome.
The children of Jane Thomson born 5th April 1879 Longside
Isabella Birnie Thompson (Illegitimate) born 28th March 1901
(There was a mistake made on the cert. and it was changed to Thomson,}
They lived at 25 Marischal Street Peterhead
No Father on cert.
James Thomson Skelton (illegitimate} born 28th April 1906
Father on cert. James Skelton occupation Fireman
James and Jane were married 27th April 1907 St. Machar Aberdeen
Joseph Skelton born 10th October 1907
They lived at 69 Marischal Street Peterhead
Helen Skelton born 29th March 1910 Peterhead
They were living at 2 Low Street Burnhaven
Alice Skelton born 29th November 1911
2 Low Street Burnhaven
Alice died 9th June 1914 aged 2 years 6 months
at Burnhaven.
I have the family on the 1911 census pages numbered 14 & 15 .
The Fathers occupation labourer at Admiralty Works.
All the children were registered in Peterhead I have all the Birth Certificates..
I discounted the Plantation Skelton’s (maybe I am wrong to do so) because Jane Ann Thomson’s
Mothers maiden name is listed as Annie Clubb and not the Isabella Birnie that’s on Janes
Birth certificate and wedding certificate.
I can’t find a death certificate for the Father James Skelton born 2nd January 1885 Woodside Aberdeen.
His brother George died in France in WW1 and is on the Peterhead War Memorial and the next name on the Memorial is James Skelton but I don’t know if that’s my James.
Thank you so much for any help you can give me,
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There is a James Skelton in the Service Returns on Scotlands People - Died 1918 aged 34 -
Ref 120/AF 480.
Perhaps this may be worth looking at.
In the 1911 Census is James listed as a widower?
Still no sign of a death for Jane Thomson.
Dorrie
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Hi Dorrie, Many thanks for reading my post. I am not sure if that’s my James Skelton the service number is 51196 and his wife’s name is Annie Dodds. He could have remarried after my Gran died but I can’t find a marriage certificate for that marriage. I really need to see his sign up papers to make sure he is my Grandad.
He wasn’t a widower in 1911, the family were spread over pages 14 and 15 on that census an Jane is on it.
Thank you and the rest of the forum very much for taking the trouble to help me it’s much appreciated. Regards Izzy
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This is indeed a very puzzling mystery ???
I, too, saw the James Skelton who was killed in action in 1918 and thought he might be worth a punt. The register of WWI soldiers' effects on Ancestry lists this James Skelton, and lists two payments to his widow, Ann, in 1919 and 1920 - and tantalisingly mentions a payment to 'the guardian of son James; Joseph Skelton' - but I can't tell if the 'guardian' bit references widow Ann (the line before) or Joseph Skelton (the line after).
Then another Ancestry database (UK soldiers who died in the Great War) suggests this James Skelton (reg. no. 51196) was born in Milnathorp, Kinross, was living in Berwick-on-Tweed and enlisted in Edinburgh - which doesn't seem to fit with your grandfather at all... :(
Ruth
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Right then that would seem to discount the James Skelton killed in action in 1918.
60% of Service Records were lost in 1940 in a bombing raid on London unfortunately.
You may already have the information on his brother George but on the CWGC and SNWM he is listed as killed in action 18/7/1916 Private in the Gordon Highlanders S/8359 - Born Woodside Aberdeen - Commemorated on the Hopeful Memorial.
A few more questions - James Skelton and Jane Ann Thomson were your grandparents. Which one of their children is your father/mother? What year did your parents marry and where?
Also, you say that on the death certificate of Alice her mother Jane is marked as deceased. Thinking out loud now - could that have been an error or was there some sort of estrangement between Ann and James.
It's all a process of elimination Izzy you have to follow all possible leads and hopefully something positive will turn up.
Dorrie
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Hi Ruth & Dorrie, Thank you both very much for your help. The James Skelton who died in 1918 I think can rule out as his birthplace Milnathorp, Kinross-shire is wrong although I don’t know why he is on the Peterhead War Memorial and his Father on his army effects sheet is recorded as Joseph Skelton which is the name of my great grandfather. Quite a puzzle.
As you say the records of his death might have been lost. So many died in that terrible war.
I know my Dad, who is the James Thomson Skelton born 1906 in Peterhead, told me he had lost both his parents when he was very young, now I wish I had asked questions...
My Mums name was Jeanie Mcwilliams Willox Burnett born 28th May 1917 in Peterhead she and my Dad were married 29th July 1938 Peterhead.
On the subject of Jane ann Thomson I have all the certificates for her parents and siblings and they all seem to have died quite young. Just strange there is no record that I can find on Jane. I just hope I live long enough to see the next census which might throw a bit of light on things.
As ever thanks for everyone’s help. regards Izzy
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The James Skelton who died in 1918 I think can rule out as his birthplace Milnathorp, Kinross-shire is wrong
Just on the off-chance that you might want to check him out, it's Milnathort, not Milnathorp, and it's in the parish of Orwell.
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I just did a very quick newspaper search for Skelton Peterhead, didn't find any death notices for Jane but did find some other snippets.
There is a memoriam notice for James Skelton, KIA September 1918. It was inserted by his widow Mrs A Skelton of 5 Weatherly Square, Berwick on Tweed and states that James was a native of Aberdeen! Of course the widow may have misunderstood James' POB but she did put the notice in an Aberdeen newspaper as well as her local one. She was Ann Dodds and the couple married in 1916 at the register office in Berwick.
I did wonder if James may have moved south after Jane's death and remarried & that's why he's on the Peterhead memorial
No help with Jane I'm afraid but if I were you I wouldn't rule out that James Skelton just yet
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Now that is interesting ;D
The record I can see on Ancestry is, of course, a transcription, not the original. It’s perfectly possible - actually more than possible in the case of Ancestry ;) - that the POB has been misinterpreted.
Ruth
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Izzycurran, could I ask if you have the death cert for Jane Skelton who died in 1914 at Plantation? The same death is also listed as Jane Thomson. I can only see two marriages on SP for Jane Thomson and Skelton, yours from 1907 at St Machar and one in 1880
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The 1916 Marriage took place in Berwick On Tweed whose registration district was Northumberland so you would have to order the certificate which is fairly costly compared to Scotlands People Records which only cost around £1.50.
Interesting find in the newspaper.
Dorrie
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cristeen see reply #2 and #10
The Plantation Jane Thomson does not seem to be the correct lady.
In the 1881 and 1891 census Jane's mother is listed as Isabella - the name of her first child. Also her mother is Isabella on her marriage certificate to James in 1907
Dorrie
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Sorry I spelt Milnathort wrongly I took the spelling from the Ancestry site and they have it as Milnathorp.
Cristeen Thank you very much for finding the marriage for Ann Dodds and James Skelton. Its all beginning to fall in to place thanks to all you knowledgeable people on this site. I have been puzzling over this for years. Its nice to know his name is on the memorial alongside his brother George.
I have to apologize to CaroleW too as I had disregarded the Plantation death certificate in 1914 as Jane Thomsons mothers name was wrong. I can see now that this looks like the correct one. I suppose it was an easy thing for James to get wrong as Janes mother had died in 1898 and maybe he didn’t know her. I do have this 1914 certificate Dorrie thanks for all your help too.
Thank you to everyone involved in helping me. What a wonderful site this is.
Kind regards
Izzy
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That's wonderful that everything has now fallen into place. Its really thanks to cristeen finding the newspaper article.
Dorrie
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Sorry I spelt Milnathort wrongly I took the spelling from the Ancestry site and they have it as Milnathorp.
No need for an apology - it's just easier to find places if they are spelled right. It's a classic typical Ancestry misspelling.
Never trust 100% anything you find on Ancestry or any other genealogy web site (MyHeritage, FindMyPast, FamilySearch etc etc) - unless it's an image of an original document.
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Thanks Dorrie. I have been compiling my family tree for the last 20 years and in that time I have gone way back in time and with the help of Scotland’s people got all the info and certificates i needed. It helped when my family except for a few lived all their lives in NE Scotland. But I came up against a brick wall with my Gran and Grandad. This site and all you lovely helpful people managed to put me right in just a couple of days. Cristeen finding the newspaper article was the final piece.
Thanks All
Izzy
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Just out of interest, did you find Helen's death certificate? I cannot see it on Scotlandspeople. I am assuming that she had died prior to her father's death as only her brothers James & Joseph are mentioned in the WW1 soldier's effects.
My apologies to CaroleW, I misunderstood your comment about the 1914 death entry & thought you were speaking about a child's death in Plantation. Upon rereading the post I realise you meant Jane's death. Sorry!
flst
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Is it possible Milnathort was misheard for Mintlaw (Aberdeen)?
Annie
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"I discounted the Plantation Skelton’s because Jane Ann Thomson’s Mothers maiden name is listed as Annie Clubb and not the Isabella Birnie that’s on Janes Birth certificate and wedding certificate"
Where on the image is Jane's death recorded i.e. top/middle/bottom?
It may be an idea to look at the mms on the entries post & previous to Jane as it's possible an error may have occured when transferring info. (it did happen) although possibly not in this case?
Is there any link with the name Clubb to the Skeltons as her hubby may have made an error through grief, not understanding the question?
Just looking at possibilities.
Annie
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Hi Annie, Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. I think Milnathort is the correct one as it ties
in with the rest of the info and the newspaper article Cristeen found.
The Annie Clubb on the death certificate is a puzzle unless Jane Thomson’s father married again after his wife died in 1898. I will have to do more research. I have Clubbs in my tree but can’t see a connection to them. I don’t think I will ever have a complete tree. lol.
Thanks again
Izzy
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Hi flst, I have Helens birth certificate, born 1910 but can’t find any other records for her. She was quite young when her parents died. Strange that she wasn’t mentioned on her fathers soldiers effects list. I need to do more work. Maybe the next census will help in my search. Thank you for taking the time to help. Many thanks Izzy
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Hi Izzy I am assuming that James Skelton registered his wife Jane Ann Thomson's death in 1914 in Plantation. If so did he actually sign his name ? What you could do is compare that signature with any births he registered and see if the signatures look the similar. Just a thought.
Nobody ever has a complete tree if they are serious about their research.
Dorrie
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Hi Dorrie You are brilliant, why didn’t I think of comparing the signature... Yes it matches so I can say for certain the Plantation death certificate for Jane Thomson is correct. Another brick in the wall. Thank you,
Izzy
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That's great you now have Jane Thomson's death. Unfortunately, you are still left with the mystery of who Annie Clubb was. Hope you solve it.
Dorrie
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This may be worth a look?
Death
SKELTON HELEN 53 (fits with birth year)
1964
320/ 83 Stracathro, Angus (on road to Aberdeen)
ROBERTSON HELEN (same ref)
Not finding a marriage.
Annie
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Hi Annie, I bought that certificate from Scotland’s People but it has Skelton as her married name and not her maiden name. Thanks so much for searching for me. I have spent the day looking for Helen on Ancestry, Scotland’s People and Deceased online but no luck so far. Regards Izzy
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Hi Izzy were there any family on either side who may have taken Helen in after her mother died? Poor wee soul was only 4 when she lost her mother. It did happen as did informal adoption by other people.
Perhaps her father felt he could not cope with the 2 boys and a wee lassie and wanted to give her the best life possible. It may be that her surname could then have been changed as it seems very strange that no trace of her can be found.
Have you traced the oldest daughter Isabella yet?
Dorrie
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dowdstree, I think I've found Isabella's death. I searched for a death of a Thomson & also Skelton death. On both instances this was the only one that came up. Isabella's death was registered in 1958, aged 57, in the parish of Bonhill and Renton. I didn't know where this was but I think it's in Dunbartonshire.
flst
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That is a great find flst and you are correct with the area. Wonder who registered her death?
Not very far from Glasgow so looks like Isabella stayed in the area after her mum's death.
We will need to wait until Izzy comes back online to see what she thinks.
Dorrie
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Stracathro, Angus
Bear in mind that there was a huge hospital at Stracathro with a lot of geriatric and long-term care wards, and that people were sent there from all over Angus and Kincardineshire.
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Hi fist & Dorrie, That looks really promising fist. I will get the certificate, fingers crossed it’s her,
I have the certificates for Isabella Birnie Thompson (they spelt Thomson wrong on the cert.) She married John Bell Hendry in 1920 in Old Kilpatrick in Dunbartonshire (that looks promising with fists find) She was 19 at the time so it looks like she gave Helen a home. Isabella died in 1958 still in Old Kilpatrick Dunbartonshire.
I will post what i find tomorrow. Many thanks once again. Izzy
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Still awaiting your reply Izzy!
flst
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I found this thread by chance when I was looking online for information on Burnhaven.
Izzy already knows this information as we have been in contact for the last couple of months. I don’t know if the people who were originally posting on this thread are interested but between us we have solved the mystery of what happened to Helen.
After Helen’s mother and younger sister died her father returned temporarily to Burnhaven and she was then placed in the Children’s Home in Aberlour along with her brother Joseph. This information only became available after the 1921 Census was published. It was supposed to be a temporary placement until her father got himself a job and a new home. WW1 and his death in service then intervened.
Izzy and I both independently contacted the Aberlour Children’s Charity for information about her. In my case I was still trying to establish exactly what had happened to her mother as I had also come up with the conundrum of whether the Jane Skelton who died in Glasgow was her mother. When I contacted them in June this year they very quickly came back to me to say that another family member had been looking for the same information and we were put in touch with each other and provided with copies of the records that they had.
Since then between the two of us we have filled in a few more gaps in the family tree. The admission and discharge records from Aberlour also made it clear that the Jane Skelton/Thomson who died in Plantation was Izzy’s grandmother and that the Joseph Skelton who died in WW1 was her grandfather.
Essentially after leaving the Children’s Home Helen eventually ended up in Aberdeen where she married my husband’s maternal grandfather. I don’t know why she lost contact with her siblings.
On the Scotland’s People website her surname was misspelled as Shelton when her marriage record was computerised. Additionally although the correct name was given for her father the first name of her mother wasn’t correctly recorded. That meant that although Izzy had found the marriage in question she didn’t know for sure that it was the right Helen. As I was effectively approaching the puzzle from the opposite direction I knew that the marriage record was definitely for my husband’s grandparents but I did spend a bit of time looking for the birth records of a Helen Shelton with the wrong mother! My father in law helped out when he told me that she was always referred to as Helen Skelton which put me back on the right track.
Helen had four children, two boys and two girls. One of the boys died in infancy but the others all survived until adulthood. My husband is the eldest child of Helen’s second daughter.
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MrsGnomus, welcome to rootschat and thank you so much for updating us! We are always curious to find out what happened in these cases.
Kind regards,
flst