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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: dhelensmith on Saturday 02 February 19 17:58 GMT (UK)
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I have been tracing an illegitimate branch of my family - recently discovered - and I have been led to Robert M. He is the son of Robert Blackwell and Harriette Gertrude Bridden and was born in Sale Cheshire in 1884. His father was a physician and of independent means and died young in 1906, his wife and a fellow physician acting as executors. Harriette died in Cheshire in 1940 citing a chartered accountant and a solicitor as her executors, no mention of Robert M.Ancestry has a Robert Musgrave Blackwell of about the correct age being tried for theft in Wellington on 11 November 1908 - a labourer - he was remanded in custody but there are no further details. In 1911 I have found him at 66 Clyde Quay, Wellington. Were this to be he, he is back in UK in 1943 and marrying Edith Marian Dale, born 2 March 1901 in Southampton, in Cornwall. In 1946 they depart from UK shores and travel to Trinidad via USA, occupation planter. A Robert Musgrave Blackwell is buried in Tasmania on 14 April 1964, of the correct age. If any one can help me with more details I would be grateful - are there 2 Robert Musgrave Blackwells or not?
Thanks Helen
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These are the articles referred to by Ancestry......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers?phrase=2&snippet=true&query=robert+musgrave+blackwell
And this will be the headstone in Tasmania you have found:
https://eheritage.libraries.tas.gov.au/resources/detail7f2b-2.html?ID=DFH_21883
Have you contacted the Tasmanian Family History Society? Maybe more information from that source?
Minniehaha.
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Letters of Administration for an Edith Marian BLACKWELL 1979, Tasmania are on FindMyPast
Date of death 3 Oct 1979
Added, it’s loaded up, and it is a will.
Address, Wilmot Road, Forth, Tasmania
$1000 to a woman in Norfolk and $1000 to a woman of the same address in Tasmania. Both could conceivably still be alive. Total estate was a bit over $19000
Modified to add
Oh dear the Norfolk woman was Theresa Henrietta Frederica ENFIELD in the will. Of 38 Bateley Avenue , Gorleston. But she died (as Theresa Helen Frederica) In 1972 age 80
Modified to add further, the other beneficiary seems likely to have been her nurse. Haven’t found her death yet so won’t elaborate
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Ancestry has a Robert Musgrave Blackwell of about the correct age being tried for theft in Wellington on 11 November 1908 - a labourer - he was remanded in custody but there are no further details.
The NZ Police Gazettes give his birth as 1882 and that he is a native of England.
Cheers
KHP
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Here is the link to the 1908 Police Gazettes......[he is on Page 507]
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=15423682&digital=yes
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for putting it up Minnie, got called away before I could do it. :D
Cheers
KHP
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Yes KHP, this page also provides a physical description of the man. Only very brief details on page 505. No photograph though.
Minniehaha.
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Do you have actual will of Robert Musgraves mother?
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Further to the will of Edith Marian there is a list of about ten people who get $200. (One of them is my old French teacher from the 1970s in NZ!
Then the balance goes to her nephews in Hertfordshire who are named .
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Here is the documentation for travel from the UK to New York in 1946 with wife Edith as mentioned by the OP in her first post........
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-894V-S84M?i=580&cc=1923888
Minniehaha.
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A 25 yr old Robert M Blackwell left London 28th Feb. 1908 on the ? Niwaru it was bound for Napier NZ via Melbourne,and Sydney .He travelled first class and appears to be the only passenger
Cheers Janette
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A Robert Musgrave Blackwell was divorced in Victoria 1935
Petitioner, Ada Winifred Blackwell
She was nee TOOMATH. They married Victoria 1926
Cert purchasable here
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj
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https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/244877558?searchTerm=%22Ada%20Blackwell%22%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=l-decade=193
Divorce report. Desertion.
Robert age 49 of Abington Road, Brooklands, Cheshire, no children
Is that address the same as Abingdon Road, Sale, Cheshire (the address on his Mothers probate notice)?
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Well that is wonderful and thank you all so much. Mystery is solved there was only 1 Robert Musgrave Blackwell and he certainly got about.
Another line drawn in the sand for me - no children.
Once again I am eternally grateful to you all
Helen
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1931 Ada Winifred on her own in Toorak, Victoria.
So presume Robert had left her before then??
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The birth registration as mentioned in the first post by the OP..........
BLACKWELL, ROBERT MUSGRAVE BRIDDON
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in ALTRINCHAM Volume 08A Page 176
Minniehaha.
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I was delighted to find this information about Robert Musgrave Blackwell. I am a descendant of Robert's aunt, Annie Edith Briddon. Since I live in Hertfordshire, I was particularly intrigued by the county's mention re Edith Marian's will. I would welcome any further information on this or on anything else to do with this family.
Some of the events in Robert's life are reminiscent of those in the life of Edwin Augustus Owen (see http://owen.cholerton.org/05_elias_33.php); my maternal grandparents were Annie Edith's daighter and a cousin once removed of Edwin Owen. Even with Edwin & Robert's distinctive names, in other countries or states they could quite easily bury their transgretions during their lifetimes (clearly not so once the Internet arrived), Similarly, in days of yore, it was quite easy to get away with identity theft - I've come across several such instances in my research - so, whilst it's more than likely that Robert was the man involved here, it just might be another man!
Thanks to all those who tracked down the information about Robert.
Moira
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A quick scan over the posts but I don't think these snippets have been included......
Robert Blackwell, alias Musgrave [1911] Mug shots…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZPG19110906.2.11.2.2?end_date=31-12-1916&items_per_page=10&query=robert+musgrave+blackwell&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1907&title=NZPG
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZPG19110607.2.11?end_date=31-12-1916&items_per_page=10&query=robert+musgrave+blackwell&snippet=true&start_date=01-01-1907&title=NZPG
1911- pages 258 & 474
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE26199490
Added: Police Court [1912]…….Note the additional alias-
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/PBH19120902.2.38?phrase=2&query=robert+musgrave&snippet=true
Added:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GIST19120903.2.14?items_per_page=10&phrase=2&query=musgrave+blackwell&snippet=true
Minniehaha.
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Further to reply #12.......
The divorce report from 'The Age' provides Robert's occupation:
[1936]-
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/205262627?searchTerm=ada%20winifred%20blackwell
Minniehaha.
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Travel documents for wife Edith Marian.......
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9BC-JSRM-2?cc=3029266&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A769X-89MM
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-894V-S8WN?i=582&cc=1923888&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A24GK-HN8
Minniehaha.
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Further thanks to you, Minniehaha. I've looked at all the references & made copies. The aliases provide convincing evidence of the man's identity.
It seems cheeky to ask after being provided with this wealth of material but does anyone have any further info on that will of Edith Marian BLACKWELL?
A comment was made that in 1931 Robert's wife, Ada Winifred, was on her own in Toorak, Victoria. On 27 Feb 1931 "Robert Blackwell" arrived at the port of London from Melbourne aboard the Baradine (P & O). He was listed as a plantation manager who had been a permanent Australian resident but was intending to become a permanent resident in England; his intended address in UK was 13 Abington Road, Brooklands, Cheshire, which was the home of Robert's widowed mother.
"Robert M Blackwell", aged 23, left London aboard the Niwaru on 28 Feb 1908 as a "1st Class Passenger" - it was largely a cargo vessel carrying meat & such like & there appear to have been no other passengers so '!st Class' is unlikely to have meant luxury! The vessel was bound for Napier, on Hawke Bay, & it arrived in Auckland on 28 April. The reports & records indicate that Robert started getting into trouble only months after his arrival.
I hoped I'd found that he'd redeemed himself with gallant war service but the records were for a "Robert Montford Blackwell".
It's always sad to find an individual who appears to have led such a feckless life. In the absence of further evidence, let's hope he became more responsible after he'd reached the age of 30. Incidentally, the 1913 civil case involved Arthur Frederick Saunders, who appears to have been a local hotel owner & who had taken over the Muriwai Hotel earlier that year.
Thanks again.
Moira
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Just thought I'd check the 1939 UK Register for Robert's mother, Harriet Gertrude Blackwell (nee Briddon), d.o.b. 6 Feb 1861. Had I depended on her name alone I might have struggled; she's indexed as 'Harriett F Blashwell' - a good effort - on FindMyPast but as 'Harirette C Blaskevell' - a tad less helpful - on Ancestry.co.uk!
Moira
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Just thought I would post this little snippet about Robert M G
Robert Musgrave Blackwell
Robert was the grandson of Sarah Jane Taylor and Job Blackwell. Sarah herself was the illegitimate daughter of Frederick Lees, one of several brothers who owned and ran a cotton mill in Dukinfield, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire. Frederick, the son of Robert Lees and my first(6 times removed) cousin Alice Sidebotham, never married and supported his mistress Ann Taylor and her family, including mother and siblings, in one of the many houses the Lees family owned. Frederick died young(1802 – 1843) and left £40,000 and Ann continued to be supported by Watkin, Nathan and James the 3 surviving brothers. These brothers were seriously rich, Watkin for example in his Will (1864) left close to £300,000. Nathan similarly did not marry but kept a mistress, Jane Cooper, and their 3 girls were very well provided for, being the main beneficiaries of his estate. They lived comfortably,all three dying on the West Coast of Lancashire. As you know mill owners ruled with a rod of iron in those days and did not tolerate their workers to question them, in any way at all. They acted as landowners have acted for centuries. They had a strong belief in their own opinions and were often fiercely religious. Indeed Nathan and Watkin had an ongoing feud with the Vicar of St Mark’s, Dukinfield and would not allow their younger workers to take time off to attend confirmation classes, they took the time off anyway and were immediately sacked. This generated a letter to the Manchester Courier in July 1850, written by the Vicar in an attempt to shame the 2 brothers. To no avail.
Back to Robert Musgrave:
His mother’s brother, James Taylor, worked for his richer relatives in a trusted position as head cashier of the Cotton Spinning Mill. He was an executor and beneficiary of his Uncle Nathan’s Will, described as James Taylor, gentleman.
Sarah Jane married Job Blackwell, warehouseman and they had 2 children – Robert and Elizabeth. Job died at the tender age of 23 in 1863 and so the children were dependant on their mother. Robert, a physician,(presumably his education was paid for by Lees family money) died at the age of 45 leaving a very small amount of money (£114. 10s) to his widow, Harriet Gertrude nee Bridden. Her estate when she died in 1940 was worth £3225, her father was an accountant and so maybe she herself had an income.
Robert Musgrave must have been very well aware of how much money the Lees family were worth and I imagine lived as if he possessed more money than he actually had. He variously describes himself as “Living on own means” (1901), labourer (1911 in New Zealand) market gardener & nurseryman(1936 in New Zealand during his divorce proceedings conducted in absentia),private means (1939, living in Cornwall) a planter (en route to Port au Spain, Trindad in 1946). He died in Tasmania in 1964. The only photo I have of him is courtesy of the New Zealand Police gazette, his mugshot, presumably taken when he was accused and eventually found guilty of stealing £2 from one, Crozier Graham in 1908 in Wellington, New Zealand. The defence pleaded extenuating circumstances. He was married twice – first in 1926 in Armadale St Albans, Victoria, Australia to Ada Winifred Toomath, who divorced him on the grounds of desertion in 1936 and then again in 1943 in Cornwall to Edith Marian Dale. Edith remained with him and she died in Tasmania in 1979.
Out of interest only Robert Musgrave Blackwell was a 3rd cousin of Bertha Georgie Hyde-Lees, a legitimate descendent twice over of Robert Lees and Alice Sidebotham. (her parents were 2nd cousins), Georgie was soon to be known as George Yeats when she married W B Yeats in 1917.W St Albans, Victor Armadale St Albans, Victoria, AustraIia
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sotrry about the last line - ignore all after 1917